Hi, working with Cash (dog) here.

Has anyone got a decent lead for a web site with leash training? Cash pulls
quite strongly though less so if I shorten the leash. I dont expect a
perfect heel (nor feel a need for it) but he wants to walk faster than I can
comfortably and pulls.

And no, before any ask, I do not want a choke collar or anything with those
nubs inside that hurt if they pull too much. Just basic advice on how to do
this and some leads on places to check.

Best I have seen so far is:
Every time your dog pulls on leash and you continue the walk, you are
rewarding her for pulling and lunging. Every time your dog gets out of
control it is essential that you instantly stop the walk, stand still and
wait for her to calm down before continuing. It is a tremendous effort in
patience at first but it will pay off if you persevere. You may only get to
the end of the block or even your driveway on your first outing, but if you
give in to your dog's demands, then she will continue to pull. You can speed
up the process by asking her to sit- stay for about 5 to 10 seconds every
time she begins to pull. Of course this will only work if your dog already
has a reliable sit-stay.

In article ,
Janet Boss wrote:
Quite honestly, I don't have time for that crap.

Could be a breed thing, but I find it doesn't work, period.
And I doubt Siberian Huskies are the only breed that will
happily hang on the leash at a dead standstill.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

cshenk wrote:

Best I have seen so far is:
Every time your dog pulls on leash and you continue the walk, you are
rewarding her for pulling and lunging. Every time your dog gets out of
control it is essential that you instantly stop the walk, stand still and
wait for her to calm down before continuing. It is a tremendous effort in
patience at first but it will pay off if you persevere. You may only get to
the end of the block or even your driveway on your first outing, but if you
give in to your dog's demands, then she will continue to pull. You can speed
up the process by asking her to sit- stay for about 5 to 10 seconds every
time she begins to pull. Of course this will only work if your dog already
has a reliable sit-stay.


A few suggestions. One of these may work.


First is a modification of the technique above. The idea is the same--
to teach the dog that pulling doesn't get him anywhere. Instead of
stopping and standing still which means it may take a moment for the dog
to realize that he isn't going anywhere, you change directions in an
upbeat happy fast way. With this method, the dog IS getting somewhere--
as long as the leash is loose. The instant the leash is tight, the
dog doesn't get to whatever he sees in the distance and had him
distracted. At that moment, he has to switch. Walks don't go far, but
the dog does get exercise.


Second is clicker training a heel. In the house, you clicker train your
dog to place his nose by your knee (or thigh or wherever it would fall
if he were walking perfectly by your side). Then you move the operation
outside. Then you ease up on the behavior that gets him a click/treat.
It goes from having to be in perfect heel position to having to be on
a loose leash.


Third is clicker training walking on a loose leash. I think this is
harder because it's less exact, but others will disagree. When the
leash is loose, you click/treat.


Are you sure you won't consider a choke chain or prong collar? The
choke chain was a disaster for Cubbe, but it worked nicely for Sheppe.
A few training sessions with it, and she didn't pull anymore. I'm no
advocate for choke chains, but I believe they can be appropriate for
some dogs. You'd want to have someone show you how to use it properly.


--Lia

In article ,
"cshenk" wrote:


Best I have seen so far is:
Every time your dog pulls on leash and you continue the walk, you are
rewarding her for pulling and lunging. Every time your dog gets out of
control it is essential that you instantly stop the walk, stand still and
wait for her to calm down before continuing. It is a tremendous effort in
patience at first but it will pay off if you persevere. You may only get to
the end of the block or even your driveway on your first outing, but if you
give in to your dog's demands, then she will continue to pull. You can speed
up the process by asking her to sit- stay for about 5 to 10 seconds every
time she begins to pull. Of course this will only work if your dog already
has a reliable sit-stay.

Quite honestly, I don't have time for that crap. I do longe-line work
and recommend it. I also like prong collars. Dogs get them quickly,
they are easy for people to use, and effective. And walks can happen
immediately, which is a good thing IMO.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

In article ,
(Melinda Shore) wrote:


Could be a breed thing, but I find it doesn't work, period.
And I doubt Siberian Huskies are the only breed that will
happily hang on the leash at a dead standstill.

And then there's the average bouncy adolescent retriever, who will leap
all over the owner, grab at clothing, and basically be a royal PITA,
whenever the owner stops.

I can picture an owner standing on their driveway getting their clothing
shredded, but damn - they aren't moving because the dog is acting up!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Melinda Shore) wrote:


Could be a breed thing, but I find it doesn't work, period.
And I doubt Siberian Huskies are the only breed that will
happily hang on the leash at a dead standstill.

And then there's the average bouncy adolescent retriever, who will leap
all over the owner, grab at clothing, and basically be a royal PITA,
whenever the owner stops.

I can picture an owner standing on their driveway getting their clothing
shredded, but damn - they aren't moving because the dog is acting up!


I hate long lines. I feel that they encourage bad behavior. While we do most
of our walks off leash, I feel that a dog should be able to walk on a
reasonable length leash (my preference is 6') without causing the owner
trouble.

I used to walk dogs for the local shelter all the time, this was varying
breeds with little to no leash training (who had been cooped up in a kennel
all day). I found that by the end of a 30 minute walk I could generally be
loose leash walking (this includes all of their 'strong pullers').

I made a few modifications to the 'standard' proceedure which is quoted in
the OP.

1. All of this isn't going to do squat if the dog isn't paying attention to
you. You have to make sure that you have their attention before trying any
of this stuff (for exactly the reason quoted above. Some dogs can have a
whale of time, even if you aren't walking). Also, the longer it takes them
to 'get' why they are stopped, the less chance they will make the
connection.
2. Some dogs live to run, and that is the best reward you can give them. I
find if I run with them like a lunatic for a bit, and make rapid changes in
my direction (after warning them), they start to watch what I'm doing. It
also helps to get out some of the 'crazies' that can acompany the start of a
walk. Also change paces (with warning). This keeps the dog focused on you
(generally they really enjoy it).
3. Always give the dog a warning *before* he gets to the end of the leash.
Typically what I do, is say "easy" just before they get to the end, then
I'll pull the leash back about an inch or two, and then return it to its
original position (note, depending on the size of the dog, you may want to
omit this step). The idea is, if the dog slowed at all (i.e. to listen to
you), they feel nothing. If they didn't listed, they get a quick reminder,
which often itself gets their attention, which is then quickly released (so
they still aren't pulling).
The key is, that you're the one directing the walk. Generally I've found
that this is accepted, *if* you show them that fun things can still happen.

I don't use any particular training collar, but then again, I'm close to 200
lbs, so can pretty well hold my own regardless of what most dogs throw at
me. If you're 100lbs soaking wet, you may need some thing that will give you
a little more immediate control over your dog. (I've heard really good
things about the collar Ceasar Millan sells off his website...).

Dale

"Dale Atkin" wrote in message
news:vx1Cj.86056$w57.71673@edtnps90...

I don't use any particular training collar, but then again, I'm close to
200 lbs, so can pretty well hold my own regardless of what most dogs
throw at me. If you're 100lbs soaking wet, you may need some thing that
will give you a little more immediate control over your dog. (I've heard
really good things about the collar Ceasar Millan sells off his
website...).

I have heard that his harness is overpriced and cheaply made. I found the
following comparisons of some products.

http://www.petexpertise.com/dog_prod...ing_nopull.htm

My trainer recommended the Easy Walk for my big strong dog Muttley, who has
always pulled mightily on his leash, even with a choker chain or prong
collar. I've pretty much gotten used to his pulling, and usually it is
managable, but last night I had to abort our walk because he sensed an
animal (probably the coyote) and he really wanted to give chase. I could
hear howling in the dark woods, so I'm guessing that was the culprit.

Your advice seemed pretty good. When Muttley pulls too much, I have him sit
and stay for a while, but when I let him go he resumes pulling. It is
tricky and can be dangerous when negotiating down hilly trails coated with
ice, snow, or mud, but when I have fallen on my butt, Muttley stops and
comes back to check on me.

Here's a video of the "DreamWalker". The dog looks a lot like Muttley, but
is bigger. Probably a full-size Anatolian.

http://www.zubapets.com/videos/DreamWalker.swf

Paul and Muttley
http://www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley/
www.peschoen.com

In article vx1Cj.86056$w57.71673@edtnps90,
Dale Atkin wrote:
I hate long lines. I feel that they encourage bad
behavior.

It's all in how you use it. You may not be familiar with
"Choose to Heel" exercises.

(I've heard really good
things about the collar Ceasar Millan sells off his website...).

You're kidding. From whom?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Melinda Shore) wrote:


Could be a breed thing, but I find it doesn't work, period.
And I doubt Siberian Huskies are the only breed that will
happily hang on the leash at a dead standstill.

And then there's the average bouncy adolescent retriever, who will leap
all over the owner, grab at clothing, and basically be a royal PITA,
whenever the owner stops.

I can picture an owner standing on their driveway getting their clothing
shredded, but damn - they aren't moving because the dog is acting up!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

We spent an entire hour long class "being a tree" waiting for Atty to stop
pulling and barking (I want to PLAYYYY) so we could click and treat her.
Atty was 6 months old and our trainer had a baby, so we tried somewhere else
because I did want my 6 month old lab waiting until our trainer came back to
work 3 months later. It was one of those goody goody no correction clicker
classes. Did not work for us. It does work for some, but not mine.

Sue and Atty

"Sue and Atty" spoke these words of wisdom in
. net:


"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Melinda Shore) wrote:


Could be a breed thing, but I find it doesn't work, period.
And I doubt Siberian Huskies are the only breed that will
happily hang on the leash at a dead standstill.

And then there's the average bouncy adolescent retriever, who will leap
all over the owner, grab at clothing, and basically be a royal PITA,
whenever the owner stops.

I can picture an owner standing on their driveway getting their
clothing shredded, but damn - they aren't moving because the dog is
acting up!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

We spent an entire hour long class "being a tree" waiting for Atty to
stop pulling and barking (I want to PLAYYYY) so we could click and treat
her. Atty was 6 months old and our trainer had a baby, so we tried
somewhere else because I did want my 6 month old lab waiting until our
trainer came back to work 3 months later. It was one of those goody
goody no correction clicker classes. Did not work for us. It does work
for some, but not mine.

Sue and Atty




I do restraint training separately.

I teach heel as a position, name recognition, and one step halts with
quarter turns in place until the dog chooses to be in the heel position and
moving at a walk off leash.

Then (especially with a litter of puppies) i take them all out and tie to a
tree around the yard. And i sit. And watch. Since this is their first time
on restraint, they fuss, pull, protest. And as soon as a puppy gives up and
goes quiet, I go to that puppy, and release them, praise them and we play.
Of course this upsets the rest of the puppies and they pull and protest all
the more, but eventually they go quiet, and the first quiet one gets
praised and released.

Finally they are all off, and the dogs learn fighting restraint is futile,
but accepting restraint passively is quickly rewarded.

Then I combine the restraint, with a dog already trained to heel by
position, and the only negative experience for the dog in the whole thing
was the tree. NOT me.

In dog class, we still teach name recognition, and one step halts, as well
as heel as a position. It works well. But they do this on leash.