Handsome "Jack" Morrison wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:19:38 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

And I, unlike so many others, enjoy pointing out when those jerks
happen to be Muslims, too.

Why? The effect it has is to create discord and disharmony, and
to set the stage for prejudice and discrimination. Like we need
more of that!

How do you react when someone enjoys pointing out when those
jerks happen to be Christians?

Shoe, foot?

I think the answer lies somewhere in the following statement:
"Espe said the school's investigation determined the student did not
make a direct threat."

here's how the investigation probably went:

"Mr. Somali student, did you threaten to kill Mr Hurd's dog."

"No, I didn't."

Case closed.

No, not closed - you're just speculating.


Do I blame all Muslims for this?

Of course not.

Many of them (according to Hurd) were quite friendly towards the dog
(even though they still refused to touch the dog with their bare
hands, which is their right).

But I choose to believe Hurd here.

According to the newspaper report, Hurd said that he _heard_ that
the student had threatened his dog. The report did not say that
Hurd actually heard the student threaten his dog. It said, "he
finally felt he had to leave after he was told a student made a
threat."

And that the school did nothing about it.

Because Hurd left?

Of course the school should do something about it, regardless of
whether Hurd remained or not.

But why do you equate what probably was bureaucratic bumbling to
"buckling under to thugs and abandoning their responsibilities in
such a cowardly manner"?

FurPaw

--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dogs

On 12 May 2008 18:26:27 -0400, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
FurPaw wrote:
But presenting the story as though the school officials simply=20
backed the Muslim student sounds like a distortion that was=20
intended to amplify the discord and confirm and increase=20
prejudice against the Somalis.

You might think that something titled "Dhimmi Watch" might
be construed as such, eh?

Dhimmi = entire Democratic Party minus Joe Lieberman.

The person behind hotair.com is
primarily known for having written a book defending the US
throwing Japanese-Americans into internment camps during
WWII.

Like maybe 95% of Americans did after Pearl Harbor, and which was
initiated by that *Democratic* icon, Franklin D. Roosevelt.

And had you been alive back then, you would have supported it, too,
especially if you lived on the West Coast.
http://michellemalkin.com/2005/01/19...-internment-2/
http://michellemalkin.com/2004/09/06...-world-war-ii/

Also, one should actually READ a book before criticising it, don't ya
think

Basically, Jack doesn't reference mainstream outlets,

I reference mainstream outlets, and not-so-mainstream outlets.

And since you enjoy living in your own personal echo chamber, you, of
all people, should pay more attention to the not-so-mainstream
references.

but apparently relies on crazy-assed racist extremist
websites for his news.

No, for "crazy-assed racist extremist websites", you have to venture
all the way over to Daily Kos and The Huffington Post, your favorite
haunts.

Talk about some *really* crazy ****ers...


--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

The best commencement speech you'll never hear.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...821,full.story

Reality-based community comes out in support of religious extremism, provided it's the extremism
of the religious Left.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10126.html

The top ten list of things envirinomentalists need to learn (pay attention, Bozoman!).
http://depletedcranium.com/?p=368

The nanny state, explained.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/2...ate-explained/

The total witlessness of Obama apologists.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archive...ma-apologists/

Moment of Truth in Iraq: How a New 'Greatest Generation' of American Soldiers is Turning Defeat and Disaster
into Victory and Hope, by Michael Yon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75405

A book that *every* American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841

On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:00:36 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

Handsome "Jack" Morrison wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:19:38 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

And I, unlike so many others, enjoy pointing out when those jerks
happen to be Muslims, too.

Why? The effect it has is to create discord and disharmony, and
to set the stage for prejudice and discrimination. Like we need
more of that!

What we don't need any more of is the Islamification of America!

Europe is already gone, and Canada is almost there.

As far as discord and disharmony go, Muslims are welcome to live here,
provided they abide by our laws, our customs, and our Constitution.

If not, they're free to return to a country that has laws, customs,
etc., more suitable to their tastes.

How do you react when someone enjoys pointing out when those
jerks happen to be Christians?

That happens to be the only folks who can be criticized (with
impunity) today!

Jew and Muslims?

Not so much.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the following statement:
"Espe said the school's investigation determined the student did not
make a direct threat."

here's how the investigation probably went:

"Mr. Somali student, did you threaten to kill Mr Hurd's dog."

"No, I didn't."

Case closed.

No, not closed - you're just speculating.

Which is exactly what you're doing, too, and there's no crime to it.

spec-u-la-tion

1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject

Do I blame all Muslims for this?

Of course not.

Many of them (according to Hurd) were quite friendly towards the dog
(even though they still refused to touch the dog with their bare
hands, which is their right).

But I choose to believe Hurd here.

According to the newspaper report, Hurd said that he _heard_ that
the student had threatened his dog. The report did not say that
Hurd actually heard the student threaten his dog. It said, "he
finally felt he had to leave after he was told a student made a
threat."

So what? He must have had a good reason to believe it, right?

He also said that the Somali students had taunted his dog, too.

I wonder how you would feel if, say, this were a Muslim girl, and she
was being taunted by a bunch of jocks.

Hostile environment?

Of course it was.

And that the school did nothing about it.

Because Hurd left?

After the school did nothing about it!

Of course the school should do something about it, regardless of
whether Hurd remained or not.

No ****, Sherlock?

But why do you equate what probably was bureaucratic bumbling to
"buckling under to thugs and abandoning their responsibilities in
such a cowardly manner"?

Because I know how university administrations work.

And so do you.

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

The best commencement speech you'll never hear.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...821,full.story

Reality-based community comes out in support of religious extremism, provided it's the extremism
of the religious Left.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10126.html

The top ten list of things envirinomentalists need to learn (pay attention, Bozoman!).
http://depletedcranium.com/?p=368

The nanny state, explained.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/2...ate-explained/

The total witlessness of Obama apologists.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archive...ma-apologists/

Moment of Truth in Iraq: How a New 'Greatest Generation' of American Soldiers is Turning Defeat and Disaster
into Victory and Hope, by Michael Yon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75405

A book that *every* American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841

Handsome "Jack" Morrison wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:00:36 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

Handsome "Jack" Morrison wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:19:38 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:
And I, unlike so many others, enjoy pointing out when those jerks
happen to be Muslims, too.
Why? The effect it has is to create discord and disharmony, and
to set the stage for prejudice and discrimination. Like we need
more of that!

What we don't need any more of is the Islamification of America!

And statements like that just increase the discord and disharmony.

Europe is already gone, and Canada is almost there.

??

As far as discord and disharmony go, Muslims are welcome to live here,
provided they abide by our laws, our customs, and our Constitution.

The problem here, Jack, is that by "our" I think you mean "the
ones you [Jack] like." Which laws and customs? States don't all
have the same laws, municipalities don't all have the same laws,
and there are many laws in the US that I'm sure you wouldn't want
to abide by (e.g., http://userpages.umbc.edu/~swenze1/laws.html ).

The citizens of the US are far from a uniform group; we've been
enriched by the infusion of people from many different countries,
including people whose ancestors had been living on the North
American continent for several thousand years before Europeans
arrived.

There are many different customs that fall under the umbrella of
"American." And a lot of those were considered "foreign" when
their bearers arrived in the US, only to be absorbed a few
generations later. [You like pizza? It was considered pretty
exotic when I was a child, but now it's as American as apple pie.]

Surely you don't just take "us" to mean "Americans who are
directly descended from the English who arrived on the
Mayflower," do you? Just where do you draw the line between "us"
and "them?"

If not, they're free to return to a country that has laws, customs,
etc., more suitable to their tastes.

How do you react when someone enjoys pointing out when those
jerks happen to be Christians?

That happens to be the only folks who can be criticized (with
impunity) today!

Pobrecito Christian jerks.

Jew and Muslims?

Not so much.

Seems to me like you're criticizing Muslims with impunity. So at
least one person can criticize someone other than Muslims with
impunity. That blog you quoted from wasn't exactly holding back,
either.

[Oh, and try atheists. It's quite politically correct in many
circles to trash atheists. Jerks or otherwise.]

But the point is, again, jerks come in all faiths. It helps no
one to associate jerkness with a particular religion, when you
know that the same person, raised in a different faith, would be
drawing his rationale for being an asshole from the Bible,
Buddhist Sutras, Kabbalah, or Bhagavad-Gita.

Case closed.
No, not closed - you're just speculating.

Which is exactly what you're doing, too, and there's no crime to it.

The difference is that I don't close the case; I leave it open to
examine all possible sides.

Do I blame all Muslims for this?

Of course not.

Many of them (according to Hurd) were quite friendly towards the dog
(even though they still refused to touch the dog with their bare
hands, which is their right).

But I choose to believe Hurd here.
According to the newspaper report, Hurd said that he _heard_ that
the student had threatened his dog. The report did not say that
Hurd actually heard the student threaten his dog. It said, "he
finally felt he had to leave after he was told a student made a
threat."

So what? He must have had a good reason to believe it, right?

He also said that the Somali students had taunted his dog, too.

I wonder how you would feel if, say, this were a Muslim girl, and she
was being taunted by a bunch of jocks.

Hostile environment?

Of course it was.

I don't think that anyone has argued that taunting the dog and
making threats toward it constituted a friendly environment.
What I objected to, and still object to, is the distortions
intended to increase prejudice and disharmony that were
introduced by the article that you originally quoted. It
portrayed the situation (1) as a uniformly hostile environment in
a Muslim school and (2) that the administrators caved in to the
Muslims and sent Hurd packing. That's not how I read the situation.

And that the school did nothing about it.
Because Hurd left?

After the school did nothing about it!

Or before the school administrators got their act together to do
something.

I don't fault him for leaving. I fault the blog for implying
that he was driven away because the school supported the entire
Muslim anti-dog culture. I certainly didn't read their actions
that way.

Of course the school should do something about it, regardless of
whether Hurd remained or not.

No ****, Sherlock?

So have they? I don't know - and neither do you.

But why do you equate what probably was bureaucratic bumbling to
"buckling under to thugs and abandoning their responsibilities in
such a cowardly manner"?

Because I know how university administrations work.

And so do you.

No, I don't, not in general. I know how some work, and the ones
I've observed have not all worked the same way. I've seen
university administrators stand up for their principles, even
when it's an unpopular idea. And I've seen others cave. I've
seen some lead effectively and others dither.

But wasn't the school in question a high school, where Hurd was
doing his student teaching? Doesn't matter... same comments re
"how they work" apply.

I really dislike broad-brush generalizations.

FurPaw

--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dogs

On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:17:03 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

[...]
What we don't need any more of is the Islamification of America!

And statements like that just increase the discord and disharmony.

There's going to be more than just "discord and disharmony" if
Muslims, or dhimmi liberals, think that we're going to allow the
Islamification of America.

Europe is already gone, and Canada is almost there.

??

Read this book:
America Alone: The End of the World As We Know It, by Mark Styne.

And this:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_...ies-steyn.html

You're obviously not paying attention to what's been happening.

As far as discord and disharmony go, Muslims are welcome to live here,
provided they abide by our laws, our customs, and our Constitution.

The problem here, Jack, is that by "our" I think you mean "the
ones you [Jack] like." Which laws and customs?

The laws and customs *enshrined* in our culture, and in our
Constitution.

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political system. And the goal
of many Muslims (waaaaay to many Muslims) is to replace our laws, our
Constitution, our customs, with their own.

And it's no secret to anyone who is paying attention.

Again, read that book I mentioned above.
http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-.../dp/0895260786

Or this one:
Londonistan, by Melanie Phillips
http://www.amazon.com/Londonistan-Me..._sim_b_title_2

Or this one:
http://www.amazon.com/While-Europe-S..._sim_b_title_1
While Europe Slept - How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from
Within, by Bruce Bawer

Or these:
The Force of Reason, by Oriana Fallaci
The Rage and the Pride, by Oriana Fallaci
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Reason-O...sim_b_title_10
http://www.amazon.com/Rage-Pride-Ori..._bxgy_b_text_b

Those last two are my favorites.

And there are many, many more.

States don't all
have the same laws, municipalities don't all have the same laws,
and there are many laws in the US that I'm sure you wouldn't want
to abide by (e.g., http://userpages.umbc.edu/~swenze1/laws.html ).

I'm talking about abrogating our laws and customs to Islamic law,
i.e., Sharia law.

The citizens of the US are far from a uniform group; we've been
enriched by the infusion of people from many different countries,
including people whose ancestors had been living on the North
American continent for several thousand years before Europeans
arrived.

Yada yada yada.

And we all ASSIMILATED.

Muslims, by large measure, refuse to assimilate.

There are many different customs that fall under the umbrella of
"American." And a lot of those were considered "foreign" when
their bearers arrived in the US, only to be absorbed a few
generations later. [You like pizza? It was considered pretty
exotic when I was a child, but now it's as American as apple pie.]

Did anyone ever try to force you to eat pizza?

You're giving me the typical claptrap so common of multiculturalism
and political-correctness devotees.

Surely you don't just take "us" to mean "Americans who are
directly descended from the English who arrived on the
Mayflower," do you? Just where do you draw the line between "us"
and "them?"

I'm not descended "from the English who arrived on the Mayflower"; my
forebearers were expected to assimilate, and they assimilated.

It's what America is all about, in fact. Assimilation.

Multiculturalism is what begets places like the Balkans:
Balkanization.

We're a *melting* pot, not a freakin' salad.

If not, they're free to return to a country that has laws, customs,
etc., more suitable to their tastes.

How do you react when someone enjoys pointing out when those
jerks happen to be Christians?

That happens to be the only folks who can be criticized (with
impunity) today!

Pobrecito Christian jerks.

Yes. But we never get to hear much about pobrecito Jewish or Muslim
jerks, do we?

It's okay to make movies mocking Catholics and other Christians, but
try to make one mocking Jews or Muslims.

It's okay to have "art" displays entitled "The **** Christ," but try
to publish a cartoon about Mohammed and see what happens to you.

Jew and Muslims?

Not so much.

Seems to me like you're criticizing Muslims with impunity.

So what? Do you ever hear the mainstream media do it? Our
politicians? Our universities?

No.

And I'm not really criticizing Muslims who come here and ASSIMILATE.

Just like the Irish did, the Italians, the Poles, the Russians, Jews,
Buddhists, etc.

So at
least one person can criticize someone other than Muslims with
impunity. That blog you quoted from wasn't exactly holding back,
either.

Yes, but it's rare.

[Oh, and try atheists. It's quite politically correct in many
circles to trash atheists. Jerks or otherwise.]

Not really, but I hear an awful lot of trashing of religious people by
atheists, and our own Mark Shaw is a prime example.

But the point is, again, jerks come in all faiths. It helps no
one to associate jerkness with a particular religion, when you
know that the same person, raised in a different faith, would be
drawing his rationale for being an asshole from the Bible,
Buddhist Sutras, Kabbalah, or Bhagavad-Gita.

Oh, please. That's just more multicultural psychobabble.

Case closed.
No, not closed - you're just speculating.

Which is exactly what you're doing, too, and there's no crime to it.

The difference is that I don't close the case; I leave it open to
examine all possible sides.

I always keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out.

[...]
So what? He must have had a good reason to believe it, right?

He also said that the Somali students had taunted his dog, too.

I wonder how you would feel if, say, this were a Muslim girl, and she
was being taunted by a bunch of jocks.

Hostile environment?

Of course it was.

I don't think that anyone has argued that taunting the dog and
making threats toward it constituted a friendly environment.

Then why didn't they do something about it?

What I objected to, and still object to, is the distortions
intended to increase prejudice and disharmony that were
introduced by the article that you originally quoted.

I didn't see no steeeeeenkin' distortions.

I saw speculation and fact.

It portrayed the situation (1) as a uniformly hostile environment in
a Muslim school and

I didn't get that out of it.

(2) that the administrators caved in to the
Muslims and sent Hurd packing. That's not how I read the situation.

I didn't get that either.

I got that they (the administration) didn't do anything.

So Hurd left.

And that the school did nothing about it.
Because Hurd left?

After the school did nothing about it!

Or before the school administrators got their act together to do
something.

You say potato, and I say potahto.

I don't fault him for leaving. I fault the blog for implying
that he was driven away because the school supported the entire
Muslim anti-dog culture. I certainly didn't read their actions
that way.

I did. If they allowed a hostile environment to exist, they were the
partly the cause of Hurd leaving.

Of course the school should do something about it, regardless of
whether Hurd remained or not.

No ****, Sherlock?

So have they? I don't know - and neither do you.

To this point, there's been no mention of anything they've done to see
to it that something like this never happens again.

That speaks volumes to me.

But why do you equate what probably was bureaucratic bumbling to
"buckling under to thugs and abandoning their responsibilities in
such a cowardly manner"?

Because I know how university administrations work.

And so do you.

No, I don't, not in general. I know how some work, and the ones
I've observed have not all worked the same way.

They work to cover their asses, to take the cowardly way out, and to
always do the politically-correct thing.

See Duke University and their handling of the charges against the
lacrosse team, or Harvard University's handling of the Larry Summers
incident, or U of Colorado's handling of the Wade Churchill situation,
as prime examples. There are literally hundreds of less publicized
examples.

I've seen
university administrators stand up for their principles, even
when it's an unpopular idea.

How 'bout an example?





And I've seen others cave. I've
seen some lead effectively and others dither.

But wasn't the school in question a high school, where Hurd was
doing his student teaching? Doesn't matter... same comments re
"how they work" apply.

I really dislike broad-brush generalizations.

FurPaw

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

The best commencement speech you'll never hear.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...821,full.story

Reality-based community comes out in support of religious extremism, provided it's the extremism
of the religious Left.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10126.html

The top ten list of things envirinomentalists need to learn (pay attention, Bozoman!).
http://depletedcranium.com/?p=368

The nanny state, explained.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/2...ate-explained/

The total witlessness of Obama apologists.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archive...ma-apologists/

Moment of Truth in Iraq: How a New 'Greatest Generation' of American Soldiers is Turning Defeat and Disaster
into Victory and Hope, by Michael Yon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75405

A book that *every* American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841

On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:45:29 -0400, "Handsome \"Jack\" Morrison"
wrote:

I really dislike broad-brush generalizations.

"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit."

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

The best commencement speech you'll never hear.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...821,full.story

Reality-based community comes out in support of religious extremism, provided it's the extremism
of the religious Left.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10126.html

The top ten list of things envirinomentalists need to learn (pay attention, Bozoman!).
http://depletedcranium.com/?p=368

The nanny state, explained.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/2...ate-explained/

The total witlessness of Obama apologists.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archive...ma-apologists/

Moment of Truth in Iraq: How a New 'Greatest Generation' of American Soldiers is Turning Defeat and Disaster
into Victory and Hope, by Michael Yon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75405

A book that *every* American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841

Handsome "Jack" Morrison wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:17:03 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

Read this book:
America Alone: The End of the World As We Know It, by Mark Styne.

I prefer Gandhi.

As far as discord and disharmony go, Muslims are welcome to live here,
provided they abide by our laws, our customs, and our Constitution.
The problem here, Jack, is that by "our" I think you mean "the
ones you [Jack] like." Which laws and customs?

The laws and customs *enshrined* in our culture, and in our
Constitution.

"*Enshrined*"? Which laws and customs would those be? We have a
pretty large body of law and culture in the US. Do you mean all
of them, or just the ones Jack likes?

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political system.

Which one? The one represented by the Sunnis? The one
represented by the Shiites?

And, embodying and supporting one or more political systems, how
is that unlike Christianity?

And the goal
of many Muslims (waaaaay to many Muslims) is to replace our laws, our
Constitution, our customs, with their own.

Unlike some Christians, who make no secret that they would like
to impose their rule on the US? Or do you consider their laws
and customs to be "ours?"

Why are those Muslims more dangerous than those Christians, to
those who don't share their beliefs?

The citizens of the US are far from a uniform group; we've been
enriched by the infusion of people from many different countries,
including people whose ancestors had been living on the North
American continent for several thousand years before Europeans
arrived.

Yada yada yada.

Truth hurt?

And we all ASSIMILATED.

Into the United States of Borg? Do we think as one? Is
resistance futile?

Muslims, by large measure, refuse to assimilate.

How many generations did it take for the Italians to
"assimilate?" The Irish? The Germans and Poles? Significant
Muslim immigration to the US is a recent phenomenon.
Historically, it takes at least a couple of generations born in
the US to really begin to see assimilation of a nationality or
culture taking place.

You sound just like the "English-Americans" at the turn of the
20th century.

There are many different customs that fall under the umbrella of
"American." And a lot of those were considered "foreign" when
their bearers arrived in the US, only to be absorbed a few
generations later. [You like pizza? It was considered pretty
exotic when I was a child, but now it's as American as apple pie.]

Did anyone ever try to force you to eat pizza?

You're missing the point. There was a lot of discrimination
against Italians when they first began immigrating to the US in
significant numbers. Now not only have they "assimilated" into
the melting pot culture, they have contributed to flavoring it.
And yet many still retain and cherish some elements of the
culture of the part of Italy they emigrated from.

You're giving me the typical claptrap so common of multiculturalism
and political-correctness devotees.

Surely you don't just take "us" to mean "Americans who are
directly descended from the English who arrived on the
Mayflower," do you? Just where do you draw the line between "us"
and "them?"

I'm not descended "from the English who arrived on the Mayflower"; my
forebearers were expected to assimilate, and they assimilated.

Just where do you draw the line between "us" and "them?"

It's what America is all about, in fact. Assimilation.

Multiculturalism is what begets places like the Balkans:
Balkanization.

No, what begets places like the Balkans is refusing to look at
the world from another person's point of view, refusing to
attempt to achieve understanding, refusing to keep open
communications, saying that it's my way or the highway; that is
what begets discord.

I see benefit in multiculturalism and political correctness; it
implies a certain respect for people who are different than you.


Pobrecito Christian jerks.

Yes. But we never get to hear much about pobrecito Jewish or Muslim
jerks, do we?

Seems to me that you've found plenty of places to hear about it.
I prefer not to characterize individual jerks by their religion.

It's okay to make movies mocking Catholics and other Christians, but
try to make one mocking Jews or Muslims.

It's okay to have "art" displays entitled "The **** Christ," but try
to publish a cartoon about Mohammed and see what happens to you.

You haven't seen Jesus and Mo?
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2005/11/25/dung/

Jew and Muslims?

Not so much.
Seems to me like you're criticizing Muslims with impunity.

So what? Do you ever hear the mainstream media do it? Our
politicians? Our universities?

Hm. McCain did this past week.

I always keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out.

I knew you would say that. Guess your definition of 'open' is at
odds with mine.

You say potato, and I say potahto.

Yes, and that just about sums it up.


I really dislike broad-brush generalizations.

FurPaw



--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dogs

On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:32:12 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

Handsome "Jack" Morrison wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:17:03 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

Read this book:
America Alone: The End of the World As We Know It, by Mark Styne.

I prefer Gandhi.

Reading Gandhi won't tell you a thing about what is going on *today*.

In America. And in Europe. And in Canada.

And when you read Gandhi, did you agree with him that the Jews in
Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc., should have just died with dignity,
that they shouldn't fight back? Or with his son, who blames the Jews
for what happened to them?

If so, I think I can see where you're coming from.

You've already crawled into the fetal position, and are already ready
to beg for mercy from your new masters.

spit

As far as discord and disharmony go, Muslims are welcome to live here,
provided they abide by our laws, our customs, and our Constitution.
The problem here, Jack, is that by "our" I think you mean "the
ones you [Jack] like." Which laws and customs?

The laws and customs *enshrined* in our culture, and in our
Constitution.

"*Enshrined*"? Which laws and customs would those be? We have a
pretty large body of law and culture in the US. Do you mean all
of them, or just the ones Jack likes?

Are you so in love with the concept of multiculturalism that you're
ready to see men able to have as many wives as they want? And be able
to divorce them by saying "I divorce thee!" three times? How about
being able to force teenaged girls to undergo genital mutilation
(clitorectomies)? Maybe you'd like to see women paraded around in
burqas, too? Or not allowed to drive? Or to work? Or generally
separated from men?

Are you really this stupid?

Do you really think all cultures are equal?

Really?

Islam is not just a religion, it is a political system.

Which one? The one represented by the Sunnis? The one
represented by the Shiites?

The one represented by the Koran. And the Hadith.

And Sharia law.

Are you even familiar with Islam?

Ever read any of the above?

I didn't think so.

And, embodying and supporting one or more political systems, how
is that unlike Christianity?

Christianity, for one, believes in the *separation* of religion and
state.

Islam does not.

Can't you imagine what that might lead to?

And the goal
of many Muslims (waaaaay to many Muslims) is to replace our laws, our
Constitution, our customs, with their own.

Unlike some Christians, who make no secret that they would like
to impose their rule on the US?

Oh, please. Yes, there are a few wackadoo Christians. And Jews, too.
But the Christian bible INSTRUCTS to "Render unto Caesar the things
which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s" (i.e.,
that state and religion shall remain separate").

But here you have an entire religion whose stated OBJECTIVE is to
unite the world under Islam ("Dar al-Islam"), by violence if
necessary, and you're worried about a few wacky *Christians*!

Do you realize how crazy you sound to normal people?

The citizens of the US are far from a uniform group; we've been
enriched by the infusion of people from many different countries,
including people whose ancestors had been living on the North
American continent for several thousand years before Europeans
arrived.

Yada yada yada.

Truth hurt?

No. But mumbo jumbo, gibberish, and psychobabble hurts my ears.

And we all ASSIMILATED.

Into the United States of Borg? Do we think as one? Is
resistance futile?

Into the United States of America, where we have a *Constitution*
that's served us well, for over 200 years now.

Muslims, by large measure, refuse to assimilate.

How many generations did it take for the Italians to
"assimilate?" The Irish? The Germans and Poles?

Pretty much as fast as those already here would allow them to
assimilate!

And those Italians, Irish, Poles, Germans, etc. while proud of their
heritage, wanted to become *Americans*, which is why they came to
America, and not somewhere else.

But the vast majority of Muslims don't see themselves as Americans,
they see themselves as Muslims.

You obviously know very little about Islam.

There are many different customs that fall under the umbrella of
"American." And a lot of those were considered "foreign" when
their bearers arrived in the US, only to be absorbed a few
generations later. [You like pizza? It was considered pretty
exotic when I was a child, but now it's as American as apple pie.]

Did anyone ever try to force you to eat pizza?

You're missing the point. There was a lot of discrimination
against Italians when they first began immigrating to the US in
significant numbers. Now not only have they "assimilated" into
the melting pot culture, they have contributed to flavoring it.

That's because they weren't Muslims! They came here to become
*Americans*! They *wanted* to assimilate!

Same with the Irish, Germans, Poles, Jews, etc., who all shared the
same Judeo-Christian heritage, too.

And yet many still retain and cherish some elements of the
culture of the part of Italy they emigrated from.

You're comparing a preference by Italians for pizza with that of
Muslims for multiple wives, female genital mutilation, quicky
divorces, horrible treatment of their women, etc?

Have you lost your freakin' mind?

You're giving me the typical claptrap so common of multiculturalism
and political-correctness devotees.

Surely you don't just take "us" to mean "Americans who are
directly descended from the English who arrived on the
Mayflower," do you? Just where do you draw the line between "us"
and "them?"

I'm not descended "from the English who arrived on the Mayflower"; my
forebearers were expected to assimilate, and they assimilated.

Just where do you draw the line between "us" and "them?"

"Us" = those who want to become Americans.

"Them" = those who don't.

The hyphen will kill us all eventually, if we don't do something soon
to rid it from our lives forever.

It's what America is all about, in fact. Assimilation.

Multiculturalism is what begets places like the Balkans:
Balkanization.

No, what begets places like the Balkans is refusing to look at
the world from another person's point of view, refusing to
attempt to achieve understanding, refusing to keep open
communications, saying that it's my way or the highway; that is
what begets discord.

Aah. How exactly does one go about "understanding another person's
point of view", when his point of view is to convert you to his
religion, by force if necessary, is to have as many wives as he wants,
is to kill his daughter if he feels "dishonored" her, etc?

Are you freakin' kidding me?

I see benefit in multiculturalism and political correctness; it
implies a certain respect for people who are different than you.

I have respect for people who have respect for *my* religion, *my*
customs, *my* culture, *my* laws, *my* Constitution, etc.

Others?

Not so much.

Pobrecito Christian jerks.

Yes. But we never get to hear much about pobrecito Jewish or Muslim
jerks, do we?

Seems to me that you've found plenty of places to hear about it.

But not from the places where I should be able to find it, but can't.

There's a reason for that, and you know what it is, too.

I prefer not to characterize individual jerks by their religion.

And I prefer to call a spade a spade.

Going through life wearing blinders doesn't sound very smart to me.

No, all Muslims aren't terrorists, but virtually all terrorists are
Muslims.

Hmmmm.

There seems to be a pattern there.

What could it be?

It's okay to make movies mocking Catholics and other Christians, but
try to make one mocking Jews or Muslims.

It's okay to have "art" displays entitled "The **** Christ," but try
to publish a cartoon about Mohammed and see what happens to you.

You haven't seen Jesus and Mo?
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2005/11/25/dung/

Let me know when a movie comes out mocking Jews or Muslims, and then
call me, 'kay?

And are you even aware of the Mohammed cartoon controversy? Where
newspapers around the world were threatened with death if they printed
a picture of Mohammed?

A freakin' picture.

Jew and Muslims?

Not so much.
Seems to me like you're criticizing Muslims with impunity.

So what? Do you ever hear the mainstream media do it? Our
politicians? Our universities?

Hm. McCain did this past week.

How so?

Please be as specific as you can.

I always keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out.

I knew you would say that. Guess your definition of 'open' is at
odds with mine.

And thank God for that!

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

The top ten list of things environmentalists need to learn.
http://depletedcranium.com/?p=368

New Jason Satellite Indicates 23-Year Global Cooling.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/2871

Bush Whiffs on the Dollar.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...RiMzkxMjFhZmQ=

Looking for Mr. Wright.
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnis...1114395.column

Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...6-7583,00.html

What you can learn about America on the deck of the USS 'Theodore Roosevelt.'
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...dgrlw.asp?pg=1

Canadian Human Rights Commission official: "Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don't give it any value."
http://www.classicalvalues.com/archi..._happen_3.html

Well, that didn't take long. Los Angeles considers "global warming" tax.
http://www.desertdispatch.com/opinio...rming_tax.html

A book that every American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841

On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:02:06 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

[...]
And when you read Gandhi, did you agree with him that the Jews in
Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc., should have just died with dignity,
that they shouldn't fight back? Or with his son, who blames the Jews
for what happened to them?

Make that his grandson.
^^^^^

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

The best commencement speech you'll never hear.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...821,full.story

Reality-based community comes out in support of religious extremism, provided it's the extremism
of the religious Left.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10126.html

The top ten list of things envirinomentalists need to learn (pay attention, Bozoman!).
http://depletedcranium.com/?p=368

The nanny state, explained.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/2...ate-explained/

The total witlessness of Obama apologists.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archive...ma-apologists/

Moment of Truth in Iraq: How a New 'Greatest Generation' of American Soldiers is Turning Defeat and Disaster
into Victory and Hope, by Michael Yon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/pro...283155&s=books
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75405

A book that *every* American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841

In article ,
FurPaw wrote:
How many generations did it take for the Italians to
"assimilate?"

I get it! http://www.xkcd.com/406/
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community