On 9 Jun 2008 13:03:49 -0400, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

(look at the way "Jack" and Paul both use "fat" as
an insult).

Many words are multi-purpose words.

Fat is one of them

Asshole is another.

For example, I *have* an asshole.

But you *are* an asshole.

Fowler really knew his stuff, eh?

Asshole.

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

Pakistan sends a delegation to the European Union to demand that Europe crack
down on free speech and enforce Islamic law - or else. spit
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...Speech_or_Else

In praise of CO2.
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=569586

Gee. And this guy is better than Bush, how, exactly? sigh
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...ding-kids.html

"The Left is very invested in both preemptively delegitimizing criticism of Obama
and framing opponents as de facto bigots." Boy, does that sound familiar. Hi, Melinda!
http://thenextright.com/jon-henke/le...h-2008-tactics

Mexican TB bugs. Doing the jobs that American TB bugs won't do.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24954041/

Global Temperature Dives in May.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...-dives-in-may/

Why I am an anti-intellectual. Hi, Melinda!
http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsb...am-an-ant.html

Saudi Montana?
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber...saudi-montana/

A Dark Corner of Europe, Part I.
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archive...k-corner-o.php

Obama, and his Church of the Poisoned Mind, finally decide to split.
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=12370

Everything You Ever Needed to Know About the Democratic Party.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...kxOTI5YThhYjQ=

Americans are paying a terrible price for the Democratic Party's perverse energy policies.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../05/020589.php

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article Dfd3k.38650$MF3.24719@trnddc06,
\(the\)duckster wrote:
The question really is it my business to tell them they are? I can't
think
of a single person who would thank someone profusely for being told they
are
fat. I know I wouldn't.

I'm not sure that's a good parallel. The way weight in
humans is stigmatized in the US involves personal shame and
a bunch of nonsense that's not directly tied to the question
of health (look at the way "Jack" and Paul both use "fat" as
an insult). I think it's possible to talk about the dog's
health without implying sloth, degeneracy, and all sorts of
stuff. But I'm pretty sure that there's absolutely no point
in trying to help Muttley, because Paul just won't listen.

I don't arbitrarily call someone "fat", even if (or especially if) they
are. On rare occasions where I might make some disparaging reference to
someone's weight, it is only because they have said or done something to
offend me. There is a group that advocates fat acceptance, and they use the
word "fat", rather than euphemisms like plump, ample, full-figured, etc,
because that is simply what it is. Most people know when they are
overweight, and there are usually many reasons. Sometimes excess weight is
healthier than losing weight, especially if it is done too quickly or
without regard to nutrition. Sometimes there are reasons why a person
cannot get enough exercise, but in general, it is simply a matter of
excessive consumption of the wrong kinds of foods.

I appreciate peoples' concern over Muttley's weight, and I am taking steps
to correct that. I also received some good, specific advice on the AOL
boards, although my post "Muttley Update" has degenerated once again to
"Janut" bashing:

http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=162728&articleId=993477&func= 6&channel=Pets&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true& filterUnhidden=false

She is not much liked there, and I'll push buttons to keep it interesting,
and make some popcorn to watch the show.

But, really, Melinda does not have good enough people skills to realize
that a little bit of kindness, understanding, patience, compassion, and so
forth go much further to encourage someone to take action, rather than
derision and stated expectations of not listening or heeding advice. Maybe
it has something to do with the "dog trainer mentality" that demands
instant and unquestioning compliance to a command, backed up with
"corrections" and force. When they cannot be physically administered, as on
usenet, the equivalent in verbal abuse is often substituted. But I think
Melinda also has some issues of unhappiness and poor self-image that she
projects onto others who oppose her in any way.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" spoke these words of wisdom in
:

I appreciate peoples' concern over Muttley's weight, and I am taking steps
to correct that. I also received some good, specific advice on the AOL


hurray! good for you... better for Muttley!

Paul E. Schoen wrote:

On rare occasions where I might make some disparaging reference to
someone's weight, it is only because they have said or done something to
offend me.

And have you ever stopped to wonder why that works as an insult?
It's not because you and society at large think that being fat is
acceptable. It works as an insult because being fat is considered
unacceptable, disgusting, etc., by *you* and by others. There are
other insults--if you must--that don't rely on putting down an
entire group of people.

I'll push buttons to keep it interesting,
and make some popcorn to watch the show.

That's a hateful thing to do to anyone, especially someone who tried
to help you.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"Paul E. Schoen" spoke these words of wisdom in
:


I appreciate peoples' concern over Muttley's weight, and I am taking
steps
to correct that. I also received some good, specific advice on the AOL
boards, although my post "Muttley Update" has degenerated once again to
"Janut" bashing:


I'm on dialup and it's taking forever to load. But it seems the consensus
over EVERYONE is that Muttley has a weight problem. I'm glad there was
enough roar to force you to do something. I hope it's enough.

Muttley was overweight last JUNE when i saw him (and told you about it) So
it wasn't a problem that sprung up since January. I advised you then to add
green beans or pumpkin to his diet to increase fiber and bulk, and reduce
calories.

If he's not finishing his meals, it's because he's getting TOO MUCH to eat.
He's not getting enough exercise (another problem) and he's so overweight
and out of shape that it's no WONDER he was so pooped after the festival.
Another clue to overweight/unfit dog.

He's not meeting normal dog exercise requirements, so DON'T expect him to
eat anywhere close to whats on the bag.

Tuck eats a half cup a day. He's perfect. He weighs 52 pounds. He gets
exercise. When we were at the nationals last week, the Norwegian judge
commented with approval of his muscling, and overall fitness.

I would not/could not EVER feed him anything close to what is recommended
on a bag. Those recommendations are made by people selling dog food.

I can't imagine Tuck, if fed the 4 1/2 cups a day recommended for him.

I don't gauge his eating by whether he eats it or not, but if he DOESN'T
eat within 10 minutes, I pick it up.
He gets another chance tomorrow.

I guage how much he gets by weight maintenence. And looking at Muttley,
that isn't happening, because he's been GROSSLY overweight for over a year.

As far as turning the AOLHELL thread into a Janet bash fest, it looks like
they've done a pretty sizzling number on you too. Must be nice wearing
rose colored glasses and seeing only what you want to see.

As far as a lot of AOLHELLERS advise.. They want you to feed high quality
foods, when in fact, its MORE FIBER that Muttley needs. He does not need
more calorie dense foods as they are advising. He needs more Fiber. Your
Purina foods will do that for you. You may even want to switch to a weight
control diet.
What they are feeding may work so well for their ACTIVE dogs. Muttley is
NOT an active dog.
They are selling you THEIR feed preferences. Don't go for it.

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I don't arbitrarily call someone "fat", even if (or especially if) they
are. On rare occasions where I might make some disparaging reference to
someone's weight, it is only because they have said or done something to
offend me.

Not much of a thinker, eh?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

In article ,
Shelly wrote:
That's a hateful thing to do to anyone, especially someone who tried
to help you.

Well, that's what he says he's doing, but it's an incorrect
framing. What he's *actually* doing is getting people to
pay attention to him, which is a desperate, needy thing to
do.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Melinda Shore wrote:

What he's *actually* doing is getting people to
pay attention to him, which is a desperate, needy thing to
do.

That, too. The whole mess is sad.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:49:08 -0400, Shelly
wrote:

And have you ever stopped to wonder why that works as an insult?
It's not because you and society at large think that being fat is
acceptable.

Well of course it's acceptable!

Do you see bunches of fat people being rounded up and herded (no pun
intended...okay, maybe a little one) into concentration camps?

Of course not.

It works as an insult because being fat is considered
unacceptable, disgusting, etc., by *you* and by others.

Which it can be, but mostly what it can be is unhealthy, and no one
wants to see a loved one or friend die early because the person is
seriously overweight and unhealthy.

Yes, some people can have valid reasons for being fat, e.g., certain
health or hormonal problems. And I have great sympathy for them.

But the vast majority of people are fat because they just eat too damn
much of the wrong foods, and don't get enough exercise.

Should they be *forced* to eat better and less food, and exercise
more?

Absolutely not. This is still supposed to be a free country, but it's
becoming less free by the hour.

["The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating
or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is
certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if
he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog." GK Chesterton]

And if somehow (God forbid) we end up with "universal health care" in
this country, that's exactly what could happen (and is already
happening in countries with socialized health care), because it saves
"the system" and the taxpayers money.

There are
other insults--if you must--that don't rely on putting down an
entire group of people.

Now wait just a gosh darn minute here.

You never seem to have a problem with putting down entire groups of
Roman Catholics, conservatives, Christians, libertarians, Republicans,
or even men, for that matter.

Why should fat people (or fat dogs) get a pass?

Answer: The shouldn't.

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

This is the kind of crap that happens when fascists like Melinda gain power.
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/654147.html

Pakistan sends a delegation to the European Union to demand that Europe crack
down on free speech and enforce Islamic law - or else. spit
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...Speech_or_Else

In praise of CO2.
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=569586

Gee. And this guy is better than Bush, how, exactly? sigh
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...ding-kids.html

"The Left is very invested in both preemptively delegitimizing criticism of Obama
and framing opponents as de facto bigots." Boy, does that sound familiar. Hi, Melinda!
http://thenextright.com/jon-henke/le...h-2008-tactics

Mexican TB bugs. Doing the jobs that American TB bugs won't do.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24954041/

Global Temperature Dives in May.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...-dives-in-may/

Why I am an anti-intellectual. Hi, Melinda!
http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsb...am-an-ant.html

Saudi Montana?
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber...saudi-montana/

A Dark Corner of Europe, Part I.
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archive...k-corner-o.php

Obama, and his Church of the Poisoned Mind, finally decide to split.
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=12370

Everything You Ever Needed to Know About the Democratic Party.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...kxOTI5YThhYjQ=

Americans are paying a terrible price for the Democratic Party's perverse energy policies.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../05/020589.php

On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:11:03 -0500, diddy none wrote:

"Paul E. Schoen" spoke these words of wisdom in
:

I appreciate peoples' concern over Muttley's weight, and I am taking
steps
to correct that. I also received some good, specific advice on the AOL
boards, although my post "Muttley Update" has degenerated once again to
"Janut" bashing:


I'm on dialup and it's taking forever to load. But it seems the consensus
over EVERYONE is that Muttley has a weight problem. I'm glad there was
enough roar to force you to do something. I hope it's enough.

Muttley was overweight last JUNE when i saw him (and told you about it) So
it wasn't a problem that sprung up since January. I advised you then to add
green beans or pumpkin to his diet to increase fiber and bulk, and reduce
calories.

What a shocker! Bozoman didn't listen to your good advice, either!

If he's not finishing his meals, it's because he's getting TOO MUCH to eat.

I wonder how many fifth-graders wouldn't have been able to figure that
out on their own?

I'm betting it's close to zero.

He's not getting enough exercise (another problem) and he's so overweight
and out of shape that it's no WONDER he was so pooped after the festival.
Another clue to overweight/unfit dog.

If the moron would at least try to encourage his dog to RETRIEVE
(Muttley may even have a bit of retriever in him), Bozoman could then
sit on his big (and increasingly fat) ass and work Muttley's excess
weight off in a matter of months (coupled with an intelligent feeding
program). They even have (relatively inexpensive) automatic fetching
machines that will even toss tennis balls for him, so he wouldn't even
have to lift his big fat arm. He'd probably require a fenced-in area,
because Muttley's recall is virtually nonexistent.

It could surely get Muttley back to a more *healthy* body weight (not
to mention an increase in overall fitness), if not an ideal one.

He's not meeting normal dog exercise requirements, so DON'T expect him to
eat anywhere close to whats on the bag.

Correctomundo.

Tuck eats a half cup a day. He's perfect. He weighs 52 pounds. He gets
exercise. When we were at the nationals last week, the Norwegian judge
commented with approval of his muscling, and overall fitness.

I would not/could not EVER feed him anything close to what is recommended
on a bag. Those recommendations are made by people selling dog food.

I can't imagine Tuck, if fed the 4 1/2 cups a day recommended for him.

You bet. Those are just guidelines, starting points, if you will, and
then the owner is supposed to compensate, upward or downward from
there, depending on how much EXERCISE the dog is or isn't getting.

And it should be almost always DOWNWARD from that, unless you're
dealing with special circumstances, e.g., performance events, dog
sledding, hunting in the winter, etc.

I don't gauge his eating by whether he eats it or not, but if he DOESN'T
eat within 10 minutes, I pick it up.
He gets another chance tomorrow.

Bozoman would probably call you a cruel and demanding owner for doing
that.

I guage how much he gets by weight maintenence. And looking at Muttley,
that isn't happening, because he's been GROSSLY overweight for over a year.

And getting worse by the hour.

As far as a lot of AOLHELLERS advise.. They want you to feed high quality
foods, when in fact, its MORE FIBER that Muttley needs. He does not need
more calorie dense foods as they are advising. He needs more Fiber. Your
Purina foods will do that for you. You may even want to switch to a weight
control diet.

Again, correctomundo.

More fiber, fewer shudder "cheeseburgers".

What they are feeding may work so well for their ACTIVE dogs. Muttley is
NOT an active dog.
They are selling you THEIR feed preferences. Don't go for it.

Yup.

Purina Dog Chow should be just fine for Muttley (considering how cheap
his owner is), provided he gets more E-X-E-R-C-I-S-E.

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

This is the kind of crap that happens when fascists like Melinda gain power.
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/654147.html

Pakistan sends a delegation to the European Union to demand that Europe crack
down on free speech and enforce Islamic law - or else. spit
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...Speech_or_Else

In praise of CO2.
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=569586

Gee. And this guy is better than Bush, how, exactly? sigh
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...ding-kids.html

"The Left is very invested in both preemptively delegitimizing criticism of Obama
and framing opponents as de facto bigots." Boy, does that sound familiar. Hi, Melinda!
http://thenextright.com/jon-henke/le...h-2008-tactics

Mexican TB bugs. Doing the jobs that American TB bugs won't do.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24954041/

Global Temperature Dives in May.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...-dives-in-may/

Why I am an anti-intellectual. Hi, Melinda!
http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsb...am-an-ant.html

Saudi Montana?
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber...saudi-montana/

A Dark Corner of Europe, Part I.
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archive...k-corner-o.php

Obama, and his Church of the Poisoned Mind, finally decide to split.
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=12370

Everything You Ever Needed to Know About the Democratic Party.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...kxOTI5YThhYjQ=

Americans are paying a terrible price for the Democratic Party's perverse energy policies.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../05/020589.php