In article egk3k.28165$bs3.14587@trnddc07,
\(the\)duckster wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I could swear I read in this thread he's taken
some of the critics to heart and is taking steps to trim Muttley up.

I hope to holler. It's just been excuses excuses excuses,
except for when he's blaming somebody else (which I guess
counts as excuses).

When I picked up Crow and Eclipse, as I was driving off I
looked in the rearview mirror and Mike was running after me
yelling "THIN DOGS LIVE LONGER!"

Maybe
they'll walk together and improve both their hearts. I cut back on junk
food, added a mile and in six months have walked off about 25 pounds.

That's pretty amazing. Do you feel different?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Shelly" wrote in message
...
Paul E. Schoen wrote:

On rare occasions where I might make some disparaging reference to
someone's weight, it is only because they have said or done something to
offend me.

And have you ever stopped to wonder why that works as an insult? It's not
because you and society at large think that being fat is acceptable. It
works as an insult because being fat is considered unacceptable,
disgusting, etc., by *you* and by others. There are other insults--if
you must--that don't rely on putting down an entire group of people.

I'll push buttons to keep it interesting, and make some popcorn to watch
the show.

That's a hateful thing to do to anyone, especially someone who tried to
help you.

If you read the thread on AOL, you will see that I never called Janet fat.
She said that she I "couldn't bare to touch it", and later she corrected
that to "bear". What I said was: "Of course. The thought of you baring
anything is more disgusting than that collar!"

So, because everyone knows she is fat, that is what was assumed. I just
thought it was funny. And even funnier was Sandy's image of a dead parrot
in Janet's prong collar!

If Janet would accept at least part of the blame for the unfortunate
incident, I would not be so quick to jump into the "Janut-bashing" on AOL.
But clearly there was a problem at that time, and the fact that Janet
claims to have used "hunderds" of prong collars says something as well.
Yes, she tried to help me, but her ego got in the way.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

If you read the thread on AOL,

Why on earth would I do that?

you will see that I never called Janet fat.

What you said *here* is that you "push buttons to keep it
interesting." In the context of the subject of people piling on
Janet, that's foul. She tried to help you, and you just keep abusing
her for it. What the hell is wrong with you?

If Janet would accept at least part of the blame

Janet doesn't own any of the blame for anything that has happened
with *your* dog. The sooner you come to terms with that, the better
for you and your dog.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

On 2008-06-09 23:25:03 -0400, Shelly said:

The sooner you come to terms with that

It has to change itself. You can't change it.

"Shelly" wrote in message
1...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

If you read the thread on AOL,

Why on earth would I do that?

you will see that I never called Janet fat.

What you said *here* is that you "push buttons to keep it
interesting." In the context of the subject of people piling on
Janet, that's foul. She tried to help you, and you just keep abusing
her for it. What the hell is wrong with you?

If Janet would accept at least part of the blame

Janet doesn't own any of the blame for anything that has happened
with *your* dog. The sooner you come to terms with that, the better
for you and your dog.

Janet and others on this newsgroup pushed me to take Muttley to her classes
before either of us were ready. Then she used training methods that others
feel were inappropriate, and she failed to take precautions that she now
does because of what she learned from her mistakes and neglect in her
class. People on the AOL boards continually bring it up, and she continues
to shriek that it was all because I didn't do any homework. She also
sometimes blames poor lighting and mysterious odors, but the fact is that
her negligence and unprofessional attempt to humiliate me and Muttley in
front of a dozen other students created a dangerous situation that caused
injury to two dogs and a handler.

She probably said that she was sorry Muttley was such a dangerous dog, and
would not be suitable for adoption, and should be euthanized, but she never
acknowledged her culpability, as was pointed out by people on the AOL
boards. She continued to tell lies and make accusations and excuses at my
expense, rather than admit that it was her poor judgment that was a major
factor, and apologize for that. I have said I was sorry for being late for
class and for not doing as much homework as I should have. But she is the
instructor, and must be held to a higher level of accountability.

I did not start this thread with the intent of it becoming what it did, but
it seems that some of the regulars here have no interest in discussing the
nice things that I described. Most of the discussion, after I posted links
to pictures, involved Muttley's weight, which is fair enough. But then it
deteriorated into a series of increasingly negative and accusatory
comments, led by, mostly, Janet and Shelly. Diddy and Jack shared their
concerns and were not inflammatory, but "the usual suspects" made it turn
ugly.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" spoke these words of wisdom in
:
she used training methods
that others feel were inappropriate, People on the AOL boards continually
bring it up,
Those idiots on AOL from what I read are not really trainers. At least not
ones i would go to. They talk a lot. But most of it is chest beating. They
are not professionals, and they spend more time blowing smoke, chest
beating, and deriding others than actually getting training done.

I bet they all feed raw too, while they are telling everyone how wunderful
they all are. (same mentality)

They gave you bad advice on nutrition for Muttley. They have lots of
opinions, but it doesn't seem like they have a lot of knowledge. I wouldn't
waste my energy talking to them (can't talk to people like them, they can't
seem to hear) And i certainly wouldn't spout them as a resource.

diddy none said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

They have lots of
opinions, but it doesn't seem like they have a lot of
knowledge. I wouldn't waste my energy talking to them
(can't talk to people like them, they can't seem to hear)
And i certainly wouldn't spout them as a resource.

Heh, but they use such pretty fonts and a lot of colours to make
up for lack of content. Sounds like they haven't changed since
I checked them out a year or so ago.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

In article ,
Rocky wrote:
Heh, but they use such pretty fonts and a lot of colours to make
up for lack of content. Sounds like they haven't changed since
I checked them out a year or so ago.

They're a heck of a lot less positively disposed towards
Paul than they used to be. That he would send anybody over
there to read the Paul-bashing suggests a few strong
possibilities as to why Paul posts.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Rocky" wrote in message
...
diddy none said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

They have lots of
opinions, but it doesn't seem like they have a lot of
knowledge. I wouldn't waste my energy talking to them
(can't talk to people like them, they can't seem to hear)
And i certainly wouldn't spout them as a resource.

Heh, but they use such pretty fonts and a lot of colours to make
up for lack of content. Sounds like they haven't changed since
I checked them out a year or so ago.

It is a whole different mindset, and they appear to be rather juvenile for
the most part, literally and/or figuratively. Yet I think it is important
to get a range of opinions on things, and then take any action needed based
on an informed "gut feeling". I do agree with some of what they say about
Janet, however. But that is past history, and I should "let it go".

In the case of Muttley's weight, I will start by giving him about 1/2 to
3/4 cup of his usual chow, once in the morning, and once in the evening. He
usually does not eat it right away, and I don't see any need to make him
eat it within a specific period of time, unless it attracts bugs. And I'll
look into "better" food, although I like to go with variety, and occasional
addition of "real" food like steak, chicken, and maybe even cooked brown
rice. Maybe I'll try some pumpkin as well. I had forgotten that Diddy had
suggested that.

I will also take him to the vets for a weight check, and ask her advice on
what and how to feed him. When I first got him, my friend Helene insisted
that I mix moist dog food with his dry kibble to put more weight on him,
and at that time (2/3/06) he was 62 lb. He was 76 lb on 3/20/07, and IIRC
he was about 80-82 lb at his last exam 1/2/08. Since then I have been a
little more watchful of his weight, and it will be useful now to get a
benchmark for subsequent checks as I follow a more specific feeding
schedule.

Helene has since switched from "poor skinny Muttley needs to put on more
weight" to "poor too fat Muttley". I just called the vets, and I'm on my
weigh...

Thanks for the advice and reasonable attitude. You know I have his best
interests at heart, and I will take action that will benefit both of us
(I'll even take him for a mile or two on the NCRR trail).

Paul and Muttley

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
In the case of Muttley's weight, I will start by giving him about 1/2 to
3/4 cup of his usual chow, once in the morning, and once in the evening.

Why are you giving him more than 100% of the current
quantity of food that's making him too fat?

He
usually does not eat it right away, and I don't see any need to make him
eat it within a specific period of time, unless it attracts bugs.

I like to have enthusiastic eaters. It helps make it
clearer when there's something wrong, not to mention that it
makes a multi-dog household possible (and aside from Saber
my dogs don't have dog aggression issues or resource
issues). I bet when you cut his diet back to a healthier
amount he'll be a better eater.

And I'll
look into "better" food, although I like to go with variety,

Me too. Fortunately there are a lot of high-quality feeds
out there and you can switch it up pretty often while
keeping the quality up.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community