"Jim Manson" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I am thinking about taking in a rescue, a 5 year old American Eskimo
that was severely neglected by his prior owner. The dog is currently
in a foster home. As far as is known the dog was in a stall in a barn
for it's entire life with little or no contact with people or other
animals outside of being fed.


I have experience in rescues and have dealt with an abused Klee Kai
successfully. The problem is that the Eskie almost seems to be, for
want of a better term, autistic. He is not aggressive at all or
fearful. He sometimes tracks eye contact but usually not, unless you
get right in his line of sight even then it's just in passing. From
what I gather he has improved in foster care over the past three
months but is still very distant from everyone. He doesn't seek out
affection or contact but doesn't react or struggle if picked up or
petted according to the foster mother. He just seems oblivious to
contact although he is alert and pays attention to everything around
him. He pretty much ignores other dogs, other then to growl if they
get too insistent. He doesn't lick, roll over, cringe or react much
at
all to people close to him. He will come if you hold out a treat but
that is a recent development according to the foster mother.
Originally he didn't know what a treat was or that people gave them.


He doesn't sniff the ground or check scents anywhere including
sniffing other dogs. He isn't housebroken although he is trained to
use puppy pads. If there is long grass around he likes to sit in it
and look around but doesn't seem bothered if someone walks up to him
to interact.


He seems unaturally calm at all times, it's almost eerie.


I would like to know if anyone has experience in dealing with a dog
like this. I am trying to get an idea of what can be done, or what
cannot be done as the case may be. Any ideas or information would be
appreciated.

I don't have a lot of experience with dogs, but my dog Muttley is rather
aloof and independent, as this dog seems to be. He was rescued from the
streets of Baltimore where he was running wild, and I would surmise that he
may have been abused and neglected in early life. I think he learned to be
somewhat distrusting of people, but not aggressive, and those qualities may
have helped him survive. He is not naturally playful or solicitous of
attention except when he needs to go out or hears something that he wants
to warn me about. He is protective, watchful, and strong-willed.

I did some research on Anatolian Shepherd dogs, many of which have similar
body shape and color compared to Muttley, and their traits are also similar
to his, and maybe somewhat as you describe with the dog you are
considering. I mentioned Muttley's behavior to a friend who at one time
owned a wolf hybrid, Cheyenne, and he laughed when I mentioned that Muttley
didn't seem interested in playing fetch or chasing a ball. He said that
sounded like Cheyenne.

Muttley has improved a lot with socialization, but he still prefers to do
his own "dog things" and will mostly ignore other people and dogs when we
go on walks, once he has "checked them out". When I took him camping in a
KOA Kabin with three other people, he went to each of them as they were
going to sleep, as if checking up on them, and then got in bed with me to
spend the night. He fits the profile of a "guardian" type dog.

The dog you are considering sounds like he has a lot of potential to be a
loyal pet, and will probably respond well to consistent love and gentle
training. He may never become a playful, outgoing dog that will interact a
lot or demand much attention, but there is probably no way of knowing. I'm
just going by my own limited experience.

I did also have another rescue dog, Lucky, who was a very sweet female
Rottie mix, and she was initially very shy and skittish when touched, but
she became more outgoing and playful as she learned to trust people. I
think she was the one that initiated play with Muttley, and he was not
amused. She was much more needy for attention, and I loved her dearly, but
in her best interests I surrendered her for adoption, and she was placed in
a home within a week.

I hope you take the challenge and give this dog a good home. I'd like to
hear about your progress as you work with him. It is amazing how resilient
dogs can be, and I think they really appreciate it when they are rescued
from neglect and abuse into a good forever home.

Paul and Muttley
www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley
www.smart.net/~pstech/Lucky

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with dogs, but my dog Muttley is rather
aloof and independent, as this dog seems to be.

Paul, when you give advice about something you know
absolutely nothing about you risk encouraging someone to
mishandle a situation and possibly hurt the dog. The
original poster doesn't know that you've only ever had one
dog and absolutely no training or dog behavior experience.
Show some self-control and for once pass up turning
someone's serious question into an opportunity to talk about
yourself.

Shame on you.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with dogs, but my dog Muttley is rather
aloof and independent, as this dog seems to be.

Paul, when you give advice about something you know
absolutely nothing about you risk encouraging someone to
mishandle a situation and possibly hurt the dog. The
original poster doesn't know that you've only ever had one
dog and absolutely no training or dog behavior experience.
Show some self-control and for once pass up turning
someone's serious question into an opportunity to talk about
yourself.

Shame on you.

I am sharing my experiences and I have prefaced my remarks with the fact
that I don't have a lot of experience. So what is your problem, a
pathological urge to criticize and pass judgment?

I may have had only one long-term dog of my own, but I've known quite a
few.

You have probably only ever had one good thing to say in your whole life.
And you likely regretted that...

Shame on you, right back atcha!

Paul and Muttley

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I am sharing my experiences [ ... ]

Paul, there's no reason whatsoever to think that Muttley's
problems have anything to do with what's going on with the
Eskie. You don't have either the experience or the
expertise to have even the wildest hope of recognizing
parallels and differences. A new poster has no way of
knowing that you're bone-ignorant about dogs.

It would cost you absolutely nothing to keep your trap
shut and it would demonstrate a little maturity and
self-control on your part, and I expect that's what the
problem is.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On Jul 22, 1:48*am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with dogs,

Then why try and give advice regarding dogs.

Also, your dogs were not "rescue" dogs when you got them. They were
strays. Lucky became a rescue when you surrendered your right to her
with a rescue group. Nothing you do with dogs is rescue, which is an
important distinction for people who actually work in rescue. My
second dog that I just lost recently was a stray, I then fostered her
for a very short time through an actual rescue group that I have
worked with in the past. When she and Yoda were getting along
perfectly I decided to adopt her myself. At that point she was an
adopted rescue dog who was found as a stray. Semantics matter, good
rescue groups have enough trouble overcoming stereotypes and wrongly
propagated beliefs resulting from some bad apples out their without
you contributing to the mess.

Nick

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:36:57 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:

On Jul 22, 1:48*am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with dogs,

Then why try and give advice regarding dogs.

Also, your dogs were not "rescue" dogs when you got them. They were
strays. Lucky became a rescue when you surrendered your right to her
with a rescue group. Nothing you do with dogs is rescue, which is an
important distinction for people who actually work in rescue. My
second dog that I just lost recently was a stray, I then fostered her
for a very short time through an actual rescue group that I have
worked with in the past. When she and Yoda were getting along
perfectly I decided to adopt her myself. At that point she was an
adopted rescue dog who was found as a stray. Semantics matter, good
rescue groups have enough trouble overcoming stereotypes and wrongly
propagated beliefs resulting from some bad apples out their without
you contributing to the mess.

Amen to all of the above.

Nick, I don't want to cause you pain if you'd rather not discuss it,
but do you and/or your vet have any idea what happened with Jezebel?

Mustang Sally

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message:

I don't have a lot of experience with dogs,

That should be reason enough to not get involved here. This dog sounds like
he has very serious issues, and is likely a 'project' dog.

but my dog Muttley is rather
aloof and independent, as this dog seems to be.

Or not. It is more likely (especially given the breed) that this dog is in
total shutdown mode, not simply aloof.

Suja

On Jul 22, 11:11*am, sighthounds & siberians wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:36:57 -0700 (PDT),
"



wrote:
On Jul 22, 1:48*am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with dogs,

Then why try and give advice regarding dogs.

Also, your dogs were not "rescue" dogs when you got them. *They were
strays. *Lucky became a rescue when you surrendered your right to her
with a rescue group. *Nothing you do with dogs is rescue, which is an
important distinction for people who actually work in rescue. *My
second dog that I just lost recently was a stray, I then fostered her
for a very short time through an actual rescue group that I have
worked with in the past. *When she and Yoda were getting along
perfectly I decided to adopt her myself. *At that point she was an
adopted rescue dog who was found as a stray. *Semantics matter, good
rescue groups have enough trouble overcoming stereotypes and wrongly
propagated beliefs resulting from some bad apples out their without
you contributing to the mess.

Amen to all of the above.

Nick, I don't want to cause you pain if you'd rather not discuss it,
but do you and/or your vet have any idea what happened with Jezebel?

Mustang Sally

We aren't really certain, at the time our two vets, my wife and I
never would have thought she was going to die. After looking back
though there is a neuro muscular disorder that would explain almost
everything that happened at the end as well as several of her "quirks"
that we didn't even realize were potentially from something underlying
as we didn't have her for very long. What the disorder didn't explain
could easily have been caused as a result of the symptoms of the
disorder. Nothing is conclusive though, and there is no way to know
for sure now. It was just a shock though because over the course of 4
days she went from an apparently healthy young dog to being in severe
pain and ultimately stopping breathing.

Nick

On Jul 22, 3:27*am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
"Melinda Shore" wrote in message

...

In article ,
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience with dogs, but my dog Muttley is rather
aloof and independent, as this dog seems to be.

Paul, when you give advice about something you know
absolutely nothing about you risk encouraging someone to
mishandle a situation and possibly hurt the dog. *The
original poster doesn't know that you've only ever had one
dog and absolutely no training or dog behavior experience.
Show some self-control and for once pass up turning
someone's serious question into an opportunity to talk about
yourself.
Shame on you.

I am sharing my experiences and I have prefaced my remarks with the fact
that I don't have a lot of experience. So what is your problem, a
pathological urge to criticize and pass judgment?

I may have had only one long-term dog of my own, but I've known quite a
few.

You have probably only ever had one good thing to say in your whole life.
And you likely regretted that...

Shame on you, right back atcha!

Paul and Muttley

From the time Paul got Muttley, through trial & error, patience,
research, love, kindness, training & care, Muttley has made miraculous
improvement w/ Paul, their bond is awesome, and Muttley has turned
into a very happy, well adjusted, much healtheir and better behaved
less fearful (Fear-aggression) dog than he was when Paul 1st rescued
him.
He & Muttley have gone through alot together, (as Muttley was rescued
from the streets and had been abused) He CERTAINLY has the right to
share his story & advice on what worked & diddn't w/ Muttley.
He is also doing a great job getting Muttley's weight down to a
healthy range, and by the looks of it, should be there in the fall.

???Shocked!! She said somethiing kind once??? *Must be dreaming*

(((Jim))) good for you w/the rescue!! I've done it for years, and
worked once got a dog (through DDAL-who tries to stop vivisection &
works on getting dogs out of labs & into caring homes) the right
before I fostered (and ended up adopting) him, the lab techs 'for
kicks' put headphones on him and 'blew his eardrums out'-he died, and
they brought him back...this experience made him deaf. Thank God I
got him, and considering what he'd been through, was so sweet-he had
never known love, only torture, and did very well with sign language
as training. (W/all dogs I use verbal and hand signals, though dogs
seem to do better w/the hand signals.) Unfortunatly, from the years
of cruel vivisecion tests and abuse, his health was very bad, and he
died a year after i got him. At least he got to experience a loving
home, and died in loving arms, as I cried and told him how proud I was
of him, how much I loved him, as he looked at me w/his big beautiful
brown eyes, and went from my arms to the rainbow bridge. I've never
cried so much or seen such cruelty as when I volunteered for DDAL and
worked animal vivisection rescue dogs.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I've seen some
great advice & links posted here, and am praying for your success in
working w/ the Eskie.
Autistics need routine, patience, and you have to work w/ the things
they are comfortable with, as they get stressed (go into 'overload')
at new situations, routines, and too much stimuli. Progress can be
slow (Autism has a wide range), but many (w/patience & time) learn to
get adjusted to new things.
The KEY: Safe, consistant routine's the dog is comfortable with,
slowly adding more w/out stressing out the dog.
WARNING: My friends took her autistic rescue dog to the vet, and on
the way back stopped and got him ice cream once. Now, every time they
go, if they don't stop at that exact place for Icecream & the same
kind as the 1st time, he has a complete meltdown until she brings him
back and gets him his 'prefered flavor, in exactly the same size
container every time, and they eat at his favorite bench (all the
other benches are un-acceptable) in back of the ice cream shop!!
Again, Routine, Routine, Routine!! :-) Good luck, and let us know how
your doing.
Sparrow ~/~ & Aeriel puppy

In article ,
Sparrow wrote:
=46rom the time Paul got Muttley, through trial & error, patience,
research, love, kindness, training & care, Muttley has made miraculous
improvement w/ Paul, their bond is awesome, and Muttley has turned
into a very happy, well adjusted, much healtheir and better behaved
less fearful (Fear-aggression) dog than he was when Paul 1st rescued
him.

See, this is a pretty excellent example of you fabricating a
story out of whole cloth. And Paul didn't "rescue"
Muttley. He makes **** up, too.

Be that as it may, Paul doesn't have one single clue about
dogs, treating Muttley as a Rorschach blob and not knowing
whether what he sees is typical, atypical, or even real.
Even if Paul hadn't mishandled Muttley he still wouldn't
have the experience or expertise to know how to deal with
another dog's problems.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community