Jim Manson wrote:
I have experience in rescues and have dealt with an abused Klee Kai
successfully. The problem is that the Eskie almost seems to be, for
want of a better term, autistic.

Shell-shock might a better analogy, IMO. He's had little physical or
mental stimulation up until now, so taking him from the only home he's
known (no matter how inadequate) and putting him in an environment where
he's exposed to a barrage of new experiences might be quite overwhelming.
It seems reasonable to me that what we consider a quietly normal home
situation might be an isolated dog's version of Grand Central Station.
During an air raid. With the circus train unloading.

...He will come if you hold out a treat but
that is a recent development according to the foster mother.
Originally he didn't know what a treat was or that people gave them.

He'll be making discoveries like that for a long time to come. Are you
thinking about keeping this dog yourself? He'll likely be a long-term
project, because it will take time for him to become comfortable in his new
circumstances. Once that happens, he might start doing some exploration.

He might never become a highly interactive, people-oriented pet. I've
owned a few animals that were shut down by the stress of changing
circumstances, although none was quite this unresponsive. Establishing a
regular, low-key daily routine goes a long way towards building a feeling
of safety. The truly hard part is the waiting.

--
Mary & the depleted Ames National Zoo
(Ranger, Duke, Rhia-cat)

"Mary Healey" wrote in message
.4...
Jim Manson wrote:
I have experience in rescues and have dealt with an abused Klee Kai
successfully. The problem is that the Eskie almost seems to be, for
want of a better term, autistic.

Shell-shock might a better analogy, IMO. He's had little physical or
mental stimulation up until now, so taking him from the only home he's
known (no matter how inadequate) and putting him in an environment where
he's exposed to a barrage of new experiences might be quite overwhelming.
It seems reasonable to me that what we consider a quietly normal home
situation might be an isolated dog's version of Grand Central Station.
During an air raid. With the circus train unloading.

...He will come if you hold out a treat but
that is a recent development according to the foster mother.
Originally he didn't know what a treat was or that people gave them.

He'll be making discoveries like that for a long time to come. Are you
thinking about keeping this dog yourself? He'll likely be a long-term
project, because it will take time for him to become comfortable in his
new
circumstances. Once that happens, he might start doing some exploration.

He might never become a highly interactive, people-oriented pet. I've
owned a few animals that were shut down by the stress of changing
circumstances, although none was quite this unresponsive. Establishing a
regular, low-key daily routine goes a long way towards building a feeling
of safety. The truly hard part is the waiting.

I agree, and your experiences and observations are similar to mine. It took
a long time before I was able (or willing) to allow Muttley to spend most
of the time in the house, so for about six months he was tethered outside
while I was gone, and also much of the time while I was here, as he was
aggressive toward my cat, and he would mess in the house.

Now that I have more experience, and have learned from reading and
interacting with people here and elsewhere, I can see where I made some
mistakes, so I can relate both negative and positive experiences, unlike
those who seem to think they have never made a mistake, and always know the
"one true way" of dealing with any dog-related situation. Yet many of the
posts from these "regulars" continue to be problems. I usually post about
good experiences, and they get quickly drifted to criticism and negativity.

But, my point is that, eventually, Muttley and I learned to communicate
with each other, and eventually he actually "told" me that he did not want
to be banished to an outside tether. I trusted him, allowed him
increasingly long periods of free run of the house, and he proved that he
was worthy of that trust.

My second "rescue dog", Lucky, adapted more quickly, but she was a
different sort of dog who was not running wild, but instead (AIUI) had been
confined in a small fenced area and neglected and had been picked up by AC
to be euthanized. When we got her released, she had an almost mangy coat of
fur with about a dozen ticks, and she was very frightened and skittish. But
she warmed up to us, and rode very nicely on my lap as Helene drove her to
a friend's place. But she reacted aggressively to her dogs, and we had to
find other arrangements for her. Some mistakes were made during that
adventure as well, but I always had her best interests at heart, and she
became a very sweet dog. On the last night before I surrendered her, I had
Muttley in a crate, and she spent the night quietly in bed with me, and
finally seemed to accept my touching her without the flinching that she
usually expressed previously. I almost canceled my appointment at the
rescue on Monday, but the overall situation with her and Muttley was not
good for any of us, and she was adopted within a week. I visited her on
Friday, at which time she was wearing her "adopted" jersey, and she was
very happy to see me. This is a shelter with very strict adoption standards
that even I would probably not meet, so I'm sure she is now in a good
forever home.

Paul and Muttley

On Jul 22, 2:47*pm, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

I agree, and your experiences and observations are similar to mine. It took
a long time before I was able (or willing) to allow Muttley to spend most
of the time in the house, so for about six months he was tethered outside
while I was gone, and also much of the time while I was here, as he was
aggressive toward my cat, and he would mess in the house.

Actually, Paul, I'd venture to guess that your "experiences and
observations" are almost never similar to Mary's. As you'd know if
you had half a clue, tethering a neglected, unsocialized dog outside
by itself is not going to be helpful. I'm imaging what kind of shape
my Borzoi would be in if we did that for the first six months we had
her. "Aggression" towards a cat is called prey drive, and it cannot
always be trained out of a dog, but tethering outside does not
magically fix it. And messing in the house is fixed by a procedure
called housebreaking.

Now that I have more experience, and have learned from reading and
interacting with people here and elsewhere, I can see where I made some
mistakes, so I can relate both negative and positive experiences, unlike
those who seem to think they have never made a mistake, and always know the
"one true way" of dealing with any dog-related situation. Yet many of the
posts from these "regulars" continue to be problems. I usually post about
good experiences, and they get quickly drifted to criticism and negativity.

Most regulars post advice mainly on subjects they have personal
experience with. Since your personal experince is extremely limited,
you'd be wiser not to offer it when it has no bearing on a poster's
situation. In this case, the dog described is not similar to Muttley,
and your experience level and knowledge are not similar to the
OP's.

But, my point is that, eventually, Muttley and I learned to communicate
with each other, and eventually he actually "told" me that he did not want
to be banished to an outside tether. I trusted him, allowed him
increasingly long periods of free run of the house, and he proved that he
was worthy of that trust.

All of which has nothing to do with this dog in this situation.
However, I have to say that if you needed Muttley to 'tell' you he
didn't want to be banished to the outdoors on a tether, you're more
ignorant than I'd imagined.

My second "rescue dog", Lucky, adapted more quickly, but she was a
different sort of dog who was not running wild, but instead (AIUI) had been
confined in a small fenced area and neglected and had been picked up by AC
to be euthanized. When we got her released, she had an almost mangy coat of
fur with about a dozen ticks, and she was very frightened and skittish. But
she warmed up to us, and rode very nicely on my lap as Helene drove her to
a friend's place. But she reacted aggressively to her dogs, and we had to
find other arrangements for her. Some mistakes were made during that
adventure as well, but I always had her best interests at heart, and she
became a very sweet dog. On the last night before I surrendered her, I had
Muttley in a crate, and she spent the night quietly in bed with me, and
finally seemed to accept my touching her without the flinching that she
usually expressed previously. I almost canceled my appointment at the
rescue on Monday, but the overall situation with her and Muttley was not
good for any of us, and she was adopted within a week. I visited her on
Friday, at which time she was wearing her "adopted" jersey, and she was
very happy to see me. This is a shelter with very strict adoption standards
that even I would probably not meet, so I'm sure she is now in a good
forever home.

None of which has any bearing whatsoever on this dog in this
situation. Hint: when someone says they have experience with rescue
dogs, they don't need any advice you feel compelled to offer.

Mustang Sally

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
I agree, and your experiences and observations are similar to mine.

No, they're not, really.

Now that I have more experience,

You have just enough experience as a hammer (Hi, Robin!) that everything
looks like a nail.

and have learned from reading and
interacting with people here and elsewhere, I can see where I made
some mistakes, so I can relate both negative and positive experiences,

I've never been hit by a train, but I can say with some authority that
standing on railroad tracks with a locomotive hurtling at your ass is a
Very Bad Idea.

Has it occurred to you that even dogs can learn through example, and that
it isn't necessary to make every possible mistake personally?

--
Mary & the depleted Ames National Zoo
(Ranger, Duke, Rhia-cat)

On Jul 22, 2:47*pm, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

I agree, and your experiences and observations are similar to mine. It took
a long time before I was able (or willing) to allow Muttley to spend most
of the time in the house, so for about six months he was tethered outside
while I was gone, and also much of the time while I was here, as he was
aggressive toward my cat, and he would mess in the house.

Now that I have more experience, and have learned from reading and
interacting with people here and elsewhere, I can see where I made some
mistakes, so I can relate both negative and positive experiences, unlike
those who seem to think they have never made a mistake, and always know the
"one true way" of dealing with any dog-related situation. Yet many of the
posts from these "regulars" continue to be problems. I usually post about
good experiences, and they get quickly drifted to criticism and negativity.

But, my point is that, eventually, Muttley and I learned to communicate
with each other, and eventually he actually "told" me that he did not want
to be banished to an outside tether. I trusted him, allowed him
increasingly long periods of free run of the house, and he proved that he
was worthy of that trust.

My second "rescue dog", Lucky, adapted more quickly, but she was a
different sort of dog who was not running wild, but instead (AIUI) had been
confined in a small fenced area and neglected and had been picked up by AC
to be euthanized. When we got her released, she had an almost mangy coat of
fur with about a dozen ticks, and she was very frightened and skittish. But
she warmed up to us, and rode very nicely on my lap as Helene drove her to
a friend's place. But she reacted aggressively to her dogs, and we had to
find other arrangements for her. Some mistakes were made during that
adventure as well, but I always had her best interests at heart, and she
became a very sweet dog. On the last night before I surrendered her, I had
Muttley in a crate, and she spent the night quietly in bed with me, and
finally seemed to accept my touching her without the flinching that she
usually expressed previously. I almost canceled my appointment at the
rescue on Monday, but the overall situation with her and Muttley was not
good for any of us, and she was adopted within a week. I visited her on
Friday, at which time she was wearing her "adopted" jersey, and she was
very happy to see me. This is a shelter with very strict adoption standards
that even I would probably not meet, so I'm sure she is now in a good
forever home.

Paul and Muttley

I'm trying not to be outright rude here, but do you really think that
a rescue finding you to be an inappropriate home is a level of
excellence that sets it above other rescues? I know of good rescues
in my area, and I know of bad ones and I don't know of one that would
adopt out a dog to you. I can't tell if you actually care about
Muttley. Sometimes you seem to, but then you just do the most
horribly stupid, potentially dangerous things. Things that I would
have never thought someone who seems to care about their dog would
do. And then to top it all off you come here and try and give people
advice on how to resolve potentially serious issues and cite your
mistakes as experience. The wheat to chaff ratio needs to be quite
higher before you can start offering advice responsibly.

My apologies to the OP for drifting off topic from their dog, but I'm
quite fed up with Paul trying to assert himself as someone worth
getting advice from. I do not have the experience to help you, if I
did I would offer advice. Paul does not have the experience to help
either, yet he continues to offer advice.

Nick