I had Muttley tethered out on the front lawn while I did some landscaping
work, which started as a weedwhacker project and then progressed to pulling
up poison ivy, pulling grape vines out of trees, and lopping off overgrown
Rose of Sharon and small maple trees. I was out of Muttley's sight for a
while, and I was rather preoccupied. Then I looked where he had been, and
there was his chain collar on the ground with the tether.

It was rush hour, cars were whizzing by on Warren Road, and I was afraid
that he might have crossed over, but he was just sitting at the end of the
yard. When I went to him, he followed me back to where he had been
tethered, but as I went to put the chain collar on him, he ran down the
path toward the other end of the property. I unclipped the tether, and went
after him. He was just standing at the other end of the property, about
10-20 feet from the road, and he looked at me when I called for him, but
went on with his "dog business". I did not want to startle him, so I went
toward my old car that I usually use to take him to the trail for his
walks, and he seemed very interested in that, so he came trotting up to me.
He wanted to get into the car, but did not resist when I put his choke
chain collar back on him.

We went back to the house, and I gave him some fresh water and a treat.
All's well that ends well. He would probably be OK off-leash, and at least
he does not seem compelled to "run away", but I just can't take that
chance. We were probably very lucky on this adventure.

I expect to be either criticized or ignored. That's OK. Neither will change
what happened, or in any way be constructive. I already know that I should
have had him on a harness, rather than a choker chain in non-choke mode.
Usually he's fine that way while I'm watching him, but sometimes he rolls
around and the chain can slip off. And it's dangerous to use it on a tether
in choke mode.

Paul and "FreeDog" Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...

I expect to be either criticized or ignored. That's OK. Neither will
change what happened, or in any way be constructive. I already know that I
should have had him on a harness, rather than a choker chain in non-choke
mode. Usually he's fine that way while I'm watching him, but sometimes he
rolls around and the chain can slip off. And it's dangerous to use it on a
tether in choke mode.

Paul and "FreeDog" Muttley


Oh, Paul, if you know Muttley shouldn't be in a choke chain on a tether, why
was he? I was so willing to give you (and everyone else here) the benefit
of the doubt, but I can't help but believe that what they say about you is
true. If you knew it was wrong, and did it anyway, and THEN posted here so
people could give you **** about it, you are an attention-seeking idiot. If
I do something really ****ing stupid, and I know it was stupid, I would keep
it to myself. Why open myself up for a smackdown, unless all I want is to
generate ANY kind of feedback. Even if it's "You're a dumbass" kind of
attention. Not that you care, but I'm finished with you now. I hope your
stupidity doesn't cause Muttley's injury or death, but I'm doubtful anyone
so idiotic, self-centred and self-deluded as you can keep him out of harm's
way.

Muttley, I wish you well. You're gonna need all the help you can get.
--
Phyrie
Kiba the Cav's Pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phyrie/...758930/detail/

In article ,
Phyrie wrote:
If
I do something really ****ing stupid, and I know it was stupid, I would keep
it to myself.

I might, might not - it depends. I think there's merit in
sharing mistakes. (Here's a situation I'm dealing with, or
rather have already dealt with, that's less a mistake than a
Situation: Image is having age-related health problems and
is incontinent, both fecal and pee. Well, when one dog
messes somewhere another dog suspects that might be a good
place, too, and it can escalate pretty quickly, esp. when
you've got 8 dogs. It was a disgusting week or so but
fortunately it's back under control. But I digress.)

But you do have to wonder why *Paul* would post that idiotic
story here, given his history and given how aggrieved he
feels by negative attention. Well, how aggrieved he says he
feels. Or maybe he likes feeling aggrieved. Heck, maybe he
likes feeling anything. Who knows?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Phyrie" wrote in message
...

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...

I expect to be either criticized or ignored. That's OK. Neither will
change what happened, or in any way be constructive. I already know that
I should have had him on a harness, rather than a choker chain in
non-choke mode. Usually he's fine that way while I'm watching him, but
sometimes he rolls around and the chain can slip off. And it's dangerous
to use it on a tether in choke mode.

Paul and "FreeDog" Muttley


Oh, Paul, if you know Muttley shouldn't be in a choke chain on a tether,
why was he? I was so willing to give you (and everyone else here) the
benefit of the doubt, but I can't help but believe that what they say
about you is true. If you knew it was wrong, and did it anyway, and THEN
posted here so people could give you **** about it, you are an
attention-seeking idiot. If I do something really ****ing stupid, and I
know it was stupid, I would keep it to myself. Why open myself up for a
smackdown, unless all I want is to generate ANY kind of feedback. Even
if it's "You're a dumbass" kind of attention. Not that you care, but I'm
finished with you now. I hope your stupidity doesn't cause Muttley's
injury or death, but I'm doubtful anyone so idiotic, self-centred and
self-deluded as you can keep him out of harm's way.

Muttley, I wish you well. You're gonna need all the help you can get.


It's not such a bad thing for temporary and supervised use, as when I'm
with him out front, or when I let him out back for a few minutes to do his
business if I can't take him out. But thank you for your concern. I'm sure
others will either chime in with even more negative comments, or ignore it.
But I'm betting they just "have to" say something, and it won't be nice.
Yet I'm sure others have had experiences like this, and their "buddies"
here did not shake accusatory fingers at them.

I think Muttley did rather well "proving" that he can be reliable
off-leash. I'm sure he enjoyed his brief experience of freedom. I felt
almost like a traitor slipping his collar back on, but the fact that he did
not protest indicates he is OK with it.

Paul and Muttley

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Phyrie wrote:
If
I do something really ****ing stupid, and I know it was stupid, I would
keep
it to myself.

I might, might not - it depends. I think there's merit in
sharing mistakes. (Here's a situation I'm dealing with, or
rather have already dealt with, that's less a mistake than a
Situation: Image is having age-related health problems and
is incontinent, both fecal and pee. Well, when one dog
messes somewhere another dog suspects that might be a good
place, too, and it can escalate pretty quickly, esp. when
you've got 8 dogs. It was a disgusting week or so but
fortunately it's back under control. But I digress.)

What did you do to restore order?

Kind regards,
(the)duckster

Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I did not want to startle him, so I went
toward my old car that I usually use to take him to the trail for his
walks, and he seemed very interested in that, so he came trotting up to me.
He wanted to get into the car, but did not resist when I put his choke
chain collar back on him.

This is where you made your second mistake - this one is a bit
more subtle. If you want Muttley to associate the car with a
walk, don't use the car as a lure, when you don't intend to take
him for a walk. You don't want him to associate "car" with
"choke collar" when that collar isn't associated with a walk.

What you should have done was to let him get in the car, drive a
bit, take him for a brief walk, and then come back home.

You're not the first person to use a choke collar
inappropriately, and you won't be the last. Now that you know,
you'll use the harness when you're tethering him, right? You
never know when you'll be distracted, go in to answer a phone,
etc., and there he is, tethered unattended on a choke collar.

FurPaw

--
The plural of anecdote is not proof.

To reply, unleash the dog.

Paul E. Schoen wrote:

I think Muttley did rather well "proving" that he can be reliable
off-leash.

Reliable at what? Playing "keep away"? Lots of dogs enjoy that one,
I'm afraid.

I really don't know what you expected to achieve by posting this,
especially since you knew in advance how it would be received.

Dianne

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
I might, might not - it depends. I think there's merit in
sharing mistakes.

You're right. If I did something stupid, and someone could learn NOT to do
it by hearing how I did it first, that does have value. That's likely how
much of dog training came about. Or any other kind of training, for that
matter. But I wouldn't preface my reporting post by saying I knew this was
really stupid before I did it, but I did it anyway, and here's what
happened, just as I knew it would. I won't have to write a post like that,
because I won't risk my dog doing something I already know is stupid. I'm
sure that in Kiba's lifetime I will do plenty of stupid things. But it will
be out of ignorance, or maybe even thoughtlessness, not an informed decision
to do something I know is stupid and dangerous. And if I do, I will be too
ashamed of myself to let you know about it, let alone be willing to risk the
censure I would rightly receive.
--
Phyrie
Kiba the Cav's Pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phyrie/...758930/detail/

"FurPaw" wrote in message
. ..
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
I did not want to startle him, so I went
toward my old car that I usually use to take him to the trail for his
walks, and he seemed very interested in that, so he came trotting up to
me. He wanted to get into the car, but did not resist when I put his
choke chain collar back on him.

This is where you made your second mistake - this one is a bit more
subtle. If you want Muttley to associate the car with a walk, don't use
the car as a lure, when you don't intend to take him for a walk. You
don't want him to associate "car" with "choke collar" when that collar
isn't associated with a walk.

What you should have done was to let him get in the car, drive a bit,
take him for a brief walk, and then come back home.

I did consider that, but the house was still unlocked, I had tools outside,
and it is several miles to where I usually go to walk him on the trail. I
could drive him to a neighborhood about 1/4 mile away, where there are
sidewalks where it would be safe to walk him, but it's not as if I just had
to ride down the street and back. I don't think he got any negative
connotations about not going for a ride, and they will further disperse the
next time I do so. But I appreciate the observation, and it is generally
good advice.


You're not the first person to use a choke collar inappropriately, and
you won't be the last. Now that you know, you'll use the harness when
you're tethering him, right? You never know when you'll be distracted,
go in to answer a phone, etc., and there he is, tethered unattended on a
choke collar.

I suppose it's not that big a deal to put his harness on, but it's also not
such a terrible thing to have him tethered with the choke collar hooked up
so it does not "choke", but simply fits around his neck. It is safe enough
to avoid a choking hazard, as I realized some time ago after having had him
tied out on the choker chain (in choke mode) and tether for up to 12 hours
unattended. It was especially dangerous because he somtimes got the tether
wrapped around a tree, and he also had access to a deck from which he could
have fallen and gotten hung. But I will try to use the harness, as it will
probably be safer as far as his being able to escape. Yet he has been able
to somehow get loose from his car harness, so I don't think anything is
100% safe.

Thanks,

Paul and Muttley

"(null)" wrote in message
...
Paul E. Schoen wrote:

I think Muttley did rather well "proving" that he can be reliable
off-leash.

Reliable at what? Playing "keep away"? Lots of dogs enjoy that one,
I'm afraid.

I really don't know what you expected to achieve by posting this,
especially since you knew in advance how it would be received.

Muttley proved that he basically knew the limits of his territory, as he
stayed on the property near the corners. It seems like he also knew that he
should not run out into the road, but of course a deer or squirrel might
have caused him to "forget".

He did not exactly play "keep away", as he initially let me go to him and
he stayed with me, but then I think he just realized that he had a chance
to run free for a little longer, so he ran to the other end of the property
and waited for me to join him.

This is just posted as an anecdote that might elicit discussion of other
similar incidents and how various dogs have reacted when unintentionally
off-leash. And possibly some methods of teaching reliable off-leash
behavior and recall. This is not the first time he has been off-leash, and
on one other occasion he behaved in a somewhat similar manner. At that
time, he had wandered up the hill into a wooded area with a meadow, and I
found him visiting in the neighbor's back yard. When I called him,
eventually he came running toward me, with a big smile, and then he shot
past me into the woods on the other side. Eventually he came back out, and
let me hook him up to his leash to walk back to the house.

Paul and Muttley