I have a French bulldog that is a very good dog, but often goes to the fence
and barks excessively. A little barking is good, but I don't want to
alienate the neighbors with constant yapping. Will an anti-bark collar
help? She is very trainable and remembers unpleasant consequences very
well.

Thanks for any help.

Tom

"Tom Ginkel" said in
rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

[Follow-ups set to rec.pets.dogs.behavior]

I have a French bulldog that is a very good dog, but often
goes to the fence and barks excessively.

What do you currently do to stop this behaviour?

A little barking is good,

In this case, I'd say that a little barking is not good. Dogs
deal easiest with black and white, and a little barking is
still barking.

but I don't want to alienate the neighbors with
constant yapping.

A very good goal. Some dog owners don't consider their
neighbours.

Will an anti-bark collar help?

No. I have no problem with remote e-collars used properly,
but bark collars (set off by the bark) may lead to an
unintended increase in your fence fighting issue.

She is
very trainable and remembers unpleasant consequences very
well.

Train her, then. A bark collar doesn't train.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Tom Ginkel" wrote in message
news:xLmkk.223490$TT4.169005@attbi_s22...
I have a French bulldog that is a very good dog, but often goes to the
fence and barks excessively. A little barking is good, but I don't want to
alienate the neighbors with constant yapping. Will an anti-bark collar
help? She is very trainable and remembers unpleasant consequences very
well.

Thanks for any help.

Tom


From: Shelley )
Subject: no bark training revisited
Date: 2003-11-06 14:50:21 PST



Typically, the dog stops barking within seconds.


I have to disagree with this. Not our dog. We tried
one (and never will again). When the doorbell rang,
he would tear over to the door and bark and bark
and bark with this collar on.

He'd end up screaming in pain and it continue to
zap him until it hit its maximum.


I will never torture my dog like that again.


--
Shelley & Rusty
http://www.bump.us/rusty


------------------------------

BARK! ZAP! SCREAM...ZAP ...SCREAM...ZAP... SCREAM...
ZAP... SCREAM...ZAP...SCREAM...ZAP ...SCREAM



"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...

Did you try it on your throat? Not very pleasant.

Umm, yes. As a matter of fact, I did. It the sensation is actually much
milder than it is on the palm, which has sweat glands and so conducts
more.



You're full of crap.



"JC" wrote in message
.. .

A friend of mine told this story about his experience with a
shock-collar:

Jim's sister-in-law had a shock collar she wanted to use on
her dog stop it from barking. Not being very technical, she
brought it over for Jim to assemble and adjust. Jim got it all
put together and decided to try it on himself to see which
setting would be most appropriate.

With the collar around his neck, set on minimum, Jim tried
a little bark... woof.

Nothing.... Woof Woof. Nothing.... Bark. Nothing.... Bark
Bark. Nothing... BARK! ZAP! The collar worked! Unfortunately,
the zap was painful enough to make Jim scream with pain,
which the collar interpreted as another bark, which lead to
another ZAP!

Which made Jim scream again...

ZAP...SCREAM...ZAP...SCREAM... Eventually, Jim got the
collar off but it never survived the chance to end up on
the dog.

(Names have been changed to protect the stupid) : )

--------------------

From the Dayton Daily News: 05.05.2001]
Lawsuit on dog's behalf could set legal precedent

Electrified collar burned family pet


By Cathy Mong
Dayton Daily News


VANDALIA | A civil lawsuit filed by a Vandalia family on
behalf of its injured dog could set legal precedent in Ohio,
says Dayton attorney Paul R. Leonard, an avowed animal
lover who wants the state to toughen its penalties for
abuse of pets.


Leonard, former Dayton mayor and state legislator in the
1970s, said the case of Boomer, a 4-year-old rambunctious
golden retriever burned by an electrified collar, is the first to
be filed by his newly formed Center for Animal Law and Advocacy.


The lawsuit, brought by Andrew and Alyce Pacher and
their children, Andrew III, and Sarah, against Invisible
Fence of Dayton, is set for a pretrial conference May
17 in Montgomery County Common Pleas Court.


Leonard, who has studied animal law the past 18 months
through Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Ore., is
incorporating his center as a nonprofit organization.
He said he hopes Boomer's case can put some bite into
what he describes as antiquated criminal laws regarding
animal cruelty.


Scott G. Oxley, the lawyer for the Centerville fence company,
has filed a motion to dismiss three of the five counts in the
lawsuit because he said that, under Ohio law, companion
animals are considered personal property.


"This (lawsuit) was filed by Boomer, that's how I read it,"
Oxley said. "It's my opinion that it's clear dogs cannot sue
under Ohio law. I would be surprised if a court would extend
to this dog an ability to file a lawsuit."


Leonard said Oxley is correct, but he's going to court because
the legislature has not toughened criminal laws. Leonard said
his center's focus is to use the civil courts to collect damages
when animals have been intentionally harmed or suffered from
someone's negligence.


"If judges aren't going to penalize them criminally, we'll go
after pocketbooks," Leonard said.


Leonard said "Animal-friendly" legislation gets "little or no
serious consideration" by lawmakers, "but I think the
movement is getting stronger. People are treating animals
more like family and less like property. I think the votes are
there."


Although 27 states recognize forms of inhumane and cruel
treatment of animals as felonies, Ohio does not. Only
Tennessee limits awards in civil lawsuits - $4,000 - based
on emotional distress and loss of companionship of a pet.


Ohio House Bill 108, introduced last year to increase
penalties for people who are abusive or cruel to companion
animals, died in committee, said Kevin Usilton, executive
director of the Humane Society of Greater Dayton. Ohio's
existing animal welfare laws have remained virtually
unchanged for 125 years and are among the country's
worst, he said.


The Pachers' lawsuit claims the fence company's negligence
caused Boomer to suffer psychological damage and physical
injuries.


The Pachers purchased Invisible Fence of Dayton's "Top Dog
Package," which cost $1,527.80 and advertised "praise-based
training" in its "classic conditioning techniques with radio
technology." An electrical wire is buried in the yard and the
dog wears a special collar that shocks the dog with electricity
if it goes beyond the fence.


Boomer repeatedly escaped the Pachers' back yard after
the fence was installed so the company's "pet consultant"
told the Pachers that Boomer needed sandbags attached
to his collar to slow him down so he'd get a "greater
correction " - a more prolonged zap of electricity transmitted
through a metal-pronged collar, according to court papers.


After a month, the Pachers asked for another consultation,
and this time a second collar - providing a total of six metal
prongs - was placed by the company representative snugly
around Boomer's neck, and the amount of electricity was
increased, the lawsuit states.


According to the Pachers' veterinarian, Boomer received
second-degree burns on his neck.


Usilton said the voltage appears to be a "brutal amount of
(electrical) charge to cause that kind of pain and injury,"
and said Boomer's owners should bear some responsibility
for the injuries.


Nevertheless, Usilton said the case might "bring to light the
stupid, antiquated laws" governing companion animals in Ohio.

In article ,
Rocky wrote:


but bark collars (set off by the bark) may lead to an
unintended increase in your fence fighting issue.

I've found the opposite to be true. I use(d) a bark box device though,
so both MY dog and the dog behind me got corrected at the same time.
Lucy solo was responsive to command, but once the other dogs snarked at
her first or in retaliation, I admit that she was selectively deaf.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Tom Ginkel" wrote in message
news:xLmkk.223490$TT4.169005@attbi_s22...
I have a French bulldog that is a very good dog, but often goes to the
fence and barks excessively. A little barking is good,

Why? What good does "a little barking" do?

but I don't want to alienate the neighbors with constant yapping.
Will an anti-bark collar help? She is very trainable and remembers
unpleasant consequences very well.

Why are you leaving her outside when she barks? When my dog barks, I
investigate. Every, single time. If it's nothing, I tell her to hush.
If she barks again, I bring her inside. Consequently, she's never been
allowed to become a problem barker. She's a smartypants, though, so
when she wants to come inside and can't get my attention, she lets out a
single bark, because she knows that I'll respond to it. This is
mutually satisfactory.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Janet Boss said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Rocky wrote:

but bark collars (set off by the bark) may lead to an
unintended increase in your fence fighting issue.

I've found the opposite to be true. I use(d) a bark box
device though, so both MY dog and the dog behind me got
corrected at the same time.

That's an entirely different situation.

I'm talking about apparent fence fighting, where both dogs are
aggressing and only yours is getting corrected - and with no
idea where the zap is coming from.

A bark collar could easily escalate this situation.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

In article ,
Rocky wrote:


I'm talking about apparent fence fighting, where both dogs are
aggressing and only yours is getting corrected - and with no
idea where the zap is coming from.

A bark collar could easily escalate this situation.

agreed!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Bad Puppy" wrote in message
...
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

ROTGWMDLOHO
onhriyoauef
l eat guraf
l sh g d
i s h s
n i
g n
g

Paul and Headless Muttley
(http://www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley...0-Headless.JPG)

Shelly wrote:
"Tom Ginkel" wrote in message
news:xLmkk.223490$TT4.169005@attbi_s22...
I have a French bulldog that is a very good dog, but often goes to the
fence and barks excessively. A little barking is good,

Why? What good does "a little barking" do?

but I don't want to alienate the neighbors with constant yapping. Will
an anti-bark collar help? She is very trainable and remembers
unpleasant consequences very well.

Why are you leaving her outside when she barks? When my dog barks, I
investigate. Every, single time. If it's nothing, I tell her to hush.
If she barks again, I bring her inside. Consequently, she's never been
allowed to become a problem barker. She's a smartypants, though, so
when she wants to come inside and can't get my attention, she lets out a
single bark, because she knows that I'll respond to it. This is
mutually satisfactory.

As someone with collies, I been around the barking block.

Collies don't tend to bark because of aggression (Lucy is an
exception), instead they bark at moving objects (BIKES!), to alert
others about the EVIL moving object, when playing, lonely or to express
happiness. The first two are the bad ones, the last three reasons are
easily fixed or managed. If a collie is starting to rev up to bark at
something, I check it out, tell them I see the EVIL BIKE, I've concluded
that it's no big deal and thus you don't need to bark. Just doing this
has helped to cut the barking down by half. Collies that decide to
ignore my advice, get squirted with a spray bottle set to stream (range
of about 15'). Lucy and Bree HATE water and will swallow impending
barks at the mere sight of the spray bottle. I make darn sure to praise
such an herculean effort. I should add that collies are allowed to talk
but not bark. Lucy and I often sit together by the front window and
watch the bikers, strollers, unicycles, joggers, scooters, yadda yadda
yadda go by. It sounds like we are having a conversation:

Lucy: mutter
Me: Oh I see, how dare that scooter go down your street
Lucy: grumble
Me: Yep, that is just so wrong
Lucy: mumble
Me: how you suffer
Lucy (spies an EVIL unicyclist, narrows her eyes and purses her mouth):
grumble! mutter! mutter!
Me: there outta be a law against such things
Lucy: mumbling in agreement

Another alternative to the spray bottle is for an offending collie to go
for a time-out in their crate. I don't consider this punishment since
they like their crates. Going into the crate removes them from whatever
it was that was getting them worked up and gives them a chance to get a
grip.

What I do not do is get mad & yell - while that may stop barking that
one time, it brings the stress level up all around and that brings the
barking threshold down (i.e. it will take even less to elicit a bark).
Yelling & punishment tends to result in stealth barking - out of the
blue 3-4 bark eruptions. I hate stealth barking.

Anyway, even though collies naturally have a low barking threshold, with
calm, relaxed training & management, they figure out how to control
their barking urges and be quiet. It's much better to start teaching
barking self-control when the collie is young. If a collie already has
an ingrained barking habit then it takes a lot longer. Lucy was an
insane barker when we got her at age 22 months but she's now 6 and our
quietest collie, well, except for the commentary about the way things
outta be, dangnabit (Lucy is turning into a curmudgeon before her time).

Chris and the smoothies,
Lucy, Fawkes & Bree the visiting collie

"ChrisJ" wrote in message
...


Collies don't tend to bark because of aggression (Lucy is an exception),
instead they bark at moving objects (BIKES!), to alert others about the
EVIL moving object, when playing, lonely or to express happiness. The
first two are the bad ones, the last three reasons are easily fixed or
managed.


Snipped very amusing collie chat post.

Chris, Kavik was a happy barker. I was never able to really "fix" it. We
battled over happy barking (demanding happy barking, actually, I'm happy,
and you aren't paying enough attention to me barking) just about every
morning. Its too late now (I hope never to have such a happy barker ever
again, its very embarassing on walks) but what would you do with a
happy-barker!?!