"Rocky" wrote in message
...
"Suja" said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I'm pretty clear (aka direct aka rude) with those who ****
me off when it comes to the welfare of their dogs.

NO! Really?

Hah, believe it or not!

I'm not really sure about how to handle this, especially
the 'fat dog' issue if the dog is otherwise well cared for
and no one has asked for my opinion.

Unless it's a sausage, I give it a lot of time before the
hints start happening, especially when, as you say, the dog is
otherwise well cared for. The advantage I have is that I see
these dogs repeatedly, and the owners see my healthy dogs
repeatedly, too. Usually they clue in.

There is a certain amount of tact that is needed, especially when dealing
with customers, but also with people in general. Some people are more "dog
people" than "people people", and their attitude can be rather abrasive and
even abusive, which does not result in effective communication. An attitude
of hostility or condescension causes an opposition reflex, especially when
a problem is already known and being dealt with, and yet someone continues
to nag and push for faster results.

Maybe it is part of the "dog trainer" mentality that expects instant
obedience to commands, or maybe it is like the drill sergeant who wants to
demean his troops to eliminate any pride they might have had of their own,
and then build up their pride in the form he demands. Some athletic coaches
have similar methods. But it does not really work well when the subject has
free will.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

There is a certain amount of tact that is needed,
especially when dealing with customers, but also with
people in general.

Some tact, but less than you'd think in other service-based
businesses. When it comes to my clients, most have been
coming to me for years, and ask for a lot of advice. At some
point the client/friend thing becomes grey, but I don't
usually find it to be a problem because those I consider as
good clients are good to their dogs, so, even in other
circumstances, they'd probably be friends.

IOW, I'm mostly preaching to the converted. Tact flies out
the window, no matter what the various relationships are, when
something affects the dog detrimentally.

It's a straight-forward business model: The dog comes first.
When clients ask me how they should pay, I tell them to pay me
at the end of the week or month or don't pay at all if you
don't like my service.

Some people don't get it, but that's OK. I feel sorry for
their dog.

Some people are more "dog people" than
"people people", and their attitude can be rather abrasive
and even abusive, which does not result in effective
communication.

See, that doesn't happen to someone with normal people skills.
If one's habit is to condescend, you'll do it everywhere. The
client, the grocery clerk, the notary selling his stamp for 20
bucks a pop (the latter was condescending).

FWIW, since you use the word a lot, in varying context, you
should define "abusive."

Maybe it is part of the "dog trainer" mentality that
expects instant obedience to commands,

Baloney. Instant results are the realm of charlatans. Anyone
who believes anyone promising instant success should send me
$20.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Rocky wrote:
"Paul E. Schoen" said:
Maybe it is part of the "dog trainer" mentality that
expects instant obedience to commands,

Baloney. Instant results are the realm of charlatans.

Oh, don't tell me that! I'm devastated!

Y'know, Paul, there's a point for every critter where you have to recognize
that your own influence has become its primary experience. The "dog
trainer mentality" doesn't expect instant obedience, but a "dog trainer
mentalitly" *does* expect learning to take place, and for behavior to be
affected by that learning.

Anyone who believes anyone promising instant success should send me
$20.

How about I send you the dog, along with the $20? And I'll need at least
$40 to take her back...

--
Mary & the depleted Ames National Zoo
(Ranger, Duke, Rhia-cat)

Mary Healey said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Anyone who believes anyone promising instant success
should send me $20.

How about I send you the dog, along with the $20? And I'll
need at least $40 to take her back...

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me! I like it - since we're the
first in, we could make piles o' cash!

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On Aug 21, 12:14*am, Rocky wrote:
"Paul E. Schoen" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

There is a certain amount of tact that is needed,
especially when dealing with customers, but also with
people in general.

Some tact, but less than you'd think in other service-based
businesses.

No. Tact is especially required when dealing with living beings.
It is not the same as selling hair spray and beer.
Even then, tact is always the higher ground.

*When it comes to my clients, most have been
coming to me for years, and ask for a lot of advice. *At some
point the client/friend thing becomes grey, but I don't
usually find it to be a problem because those I consider as
good clients are good to their dogs, so, even in other
circumstances, they'd probably be friends.

We are not discussing the clients that you do not have problems with,
we are discussing the ones that you offend.
You are being defensive, Matt.

IOW, I'm mostly preaching to the converted. *Tact flies out
the window, no matter what the various relationships are, when
something affects the dog detrimentally.

How are they going to learn to do better, when you do not role model
respect?
You catch allot more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Politeness does not cost you anything.
Dog abusers often do not know that they are abusing their dogs.
Instead of show them what they are doing wrong, try showing them how
to do it right.
That way, ego is avoided and the person is more willing to listen.
I do not drink alchhol myselff, however, I do know many people who do,
some have addiction issues.
At AA meeetings, I hear that politness is the 'golden rule'.
By others role modeling preferred behaviors, other people can learn
new behaviors that they desperately need in their tattered lives.
Unless the situation with a dog needs an intervention, the only way
people will listen to your advice, is if it is given with tact and
good will for both the person and the dog.


It's a straight-forward business model: The dog comes first. *
When clients ask me how they should pay, I tell them to pay me
at the end of the week or month or don't pay at all if you
don't like my service.

Good policy.
Good acupuncturists say the same thing, "If I did not help you, feel
free not to pay."

Some people don't get it, but that's OK. *I feel sorry for
their dog.

What don't they get?
Paying at the end of a week or month is common practice in many
businesses, how does payment have anything to do with "feeling sorry
for their dog."?

Some people are more "dog people" than
"people people", and their attitude can be rather abrasive
and even abusive, which does not result in effective
communication.

So, role model politeness, it does not cost you anything.

See, that doesn't happen to someone with normal people skills. *
If one's habit is to condescend, you'll do it everywhere. *The
client, the grocery clerk, the notary selling his stamp for 20
bucks a pop (the latter was condescending).

Not necessarily.
They may have issues with you -- or their dog, perhaps both.
Can't assume such broad generalities.

FWIW, since you use the word a lot, in varying context, you
should define "abusive."

It was you that said you do not always have tact.
So define what you do that is not tactful, Matt.

Maybe it is part of the "dog trainer" mentality that
expects instant obedience to commands,

Baloney. *Instant results are the realm of charlatans. *Anyone
who believes anyone promising instant success should send me
$20.

We are talking about politeness and tact, not instant results, Matt.

--Matt. *Rocky's a Dog.

Mirelle

On Aug 21, 4:06*pm, Mirelle wrote:
Spelling correction:
I do not drink alcohol myself...

Mirelle

On Aug 21, 12:14*am, Rocky wrote:

"Paul E. Schoen" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
There is a certain amount of tact that is needed,
especially when dealing with customers, but also with
people in general.
Some tact, but less than you'd think in other service-based
businesses.

No. Tact is especially required when dealing with living beings.
It is not the same as selling hair spray and beer.
Even then, tact is always the higher ground.

*When it comes to my clients, most have been
coming to me for years, and ask for a lot of advice. *At some
point the client/friend thing becomes grey, but I don't
usually find it to be a problem because those I consider as
good clients are good to their dogs, so, even in other
circumstances, they'd probably be friends.

We are not discussing the clients that you do not have problems with,
we are discussing the ones that you offend.
You are being defensive, Matt.

IOW, I'm mostly preaching to the converted. *Tact flies out
the window, no matter what the various relationships are, when
something affects the dog detrimentally.

How are they going to learn to do better, when you do not role model
respect?
You catch allot more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Politeness does not cost you anything.
Dog abusers often do not know that they are abusing their dogs.
Instead of show them what they are doing wrong, try showing them how
to do it right.
That way, ego is avoided and the person is more willing to listen.
I do not drink alchhol myselff, however, I do know many people who do,
some have addiction issues.
At AA meeetings, I hear that politness is the 'golden rule'.
By others role modeling preferred behaviors, other people can learn
new behaviors that they desperately need in their tattered lives.
Unless the situation with a dog needs an intervention, the only way
people will listen to your advice, is if it is given with tact and
good will for both the person and the dog.

It's a straight-forward business model: The dog comes first. *
When clients ask me how they should pay, I tell them to pay me
at the end of the week or month or don't pay at all if you
don't like my service.

Good policy.
Good acupuncturists say the same thing, "If I did not help you, feel
free not to pay."

Some people don't get it, but that's OK. *I feel sorry for
their dog.

What don't they get?
Paying at the end of a week or month is common practice in many
businesses, how does payment have anything to do with "feeling sorry
for their dog."?

Some people are more "dog people" than
"people people", and their attitude can be rather abrasive
and even abusive, which does not result in effective
communication.

So, role model politeness, it does not cost you anything.

See, that doesn't happen to someone with normal people skills. *
If one's habit is to condescend, you'll do it everywhere. *The
client, the grocery clerk, the notary selling his stamp for 20
bucks a pop (the latter was condescending).

Not necessarily.
They may have issues with you -- or their dog, perhaps both.
Can't assume such broad generalities.

FWIW, since you use the word a lot, in varying context, you
should define "abusive."

It was you that said you do not always have tact.
So define what you do that is not tactful, Matt.

Maybe it is part of the "dog trainer" mentality that
expects instant obedience to commands,
Baloney. *Instant results are the realm of charlatans. *Anyone
who believes anyone promising instant success should send me
$20.

We are talking about politeness and tact, not instant results, Matt.

--Matt. *Rocky's a Dog.

*Mirelle