It has been a long time since I have had much to do with cats, although
I have always liked them. During the later part of my youth, my parents
had a domestic shorthair tuxedo cat, Hughie, that we inherited from a
young woman that rented the apartment attached to our house. I enjoyed
having him around, though Hughie was largely my sister's cat.

For several years it has been obvious to my daughters and myself that my
wife was a potential cat person. She prefers smaller lap animals,
petting to training, and interactions indoors to outdoors, but whenever
we suggested it to her, she would bring up her problems when she cat sat
a friend's cat for a week, the smell of the litter box, and how
difficult it must be to get a cat to get along with dogs. Still after
moving to our new house we have occaisionally had problems with mice,
and she would consider getting a mouser. When she would be in this mood
I would tell her that I thought she would enjoy having a cat, that her
friend taught her cat to play roughly and not all cats played like that
one, that our family didn't mind the smell of an isolated litter box,
and that my family's dogs got along with cats. I also told her that my
mother's final dog, a Welsh Terrier, was a better mouser than some of my
sisters' cats, that care would need to be taken to keep the cat indoors
given our doggie door, and reminded her that after her lymphectomy on
her upper right arm we have to be careful about infections from
scratches on that arm. Then, the past month or so our house (and the
houses of some of her friends) has had an infestation of mice.

Saturday, a week ago, we got our first cat.

We first spent a couple of weekends visiting the shelter I volunteer at.
However the two cats, that were recommended to us by a cat savvy
volunteer, were adopted before she had a chance to check them out. Then
on Friday she mentioned her interest to her hairdresser, and discovered
that the hairdresser volunteered for a cat rescue organization in Santa
Fe, and that the friend knew of a cat that seemed a good match for us
that would be at a mobile adoption that afternoon, and Saturday. My wife
checked it out, liked what she saw, and got us all to go to the mobile
adoption the next day.

I always enjoy mobile adoptions, and that day was particularly fun as a
number of rescues and shelter wer having mobile adoptions as part of a
statewide (national?) adoption drive. At the Petco where the cat rescue
had its adoption team, the Espanola shelter also had its group. So I not
only checked out the cat, but also spent some time holding dogs, while
one of the shelter workers cleaned up after a puppy, and playing with
puppies and kittens.

We all liked the cat, a small red (really orange, but the rescue head
said the standard calls that color red) tabby, about ten pounds and two
years old. She was affectionate, a purring machine, not too active with
her claws in play, active enough to be a potential mouser, and
supposedly had experience living with dogs, other cats, and children. We
went out to lunch after checking out the cat, discussed our reactions,
decided to get her, went back to the event, adopted her, and named her
Aria.

Outside of the dogs, and all the expensive doodads intended to distract
her from scratching the furniture, the adoption has gone well. My wife
is in love with Aria., enjoys her much more than the dogs, and talks all
the time about how different Aria is from her friend's cat. My daughters
and I also enjoy her.

The inital interactions with the dogs went very well, which may have led
to some over confidence. We first took Aria in the house in her cat
carrier, and placed it on the breakfast table. It may have been a
coincidence, but when it looked like the dogs first came into her sight,
she started purring, very loudly. At first the dogs didn't notice her in
their focuss on us. Then after a few meows the dogs noticed there was
something in the carrier became interested, and put their paws on the
chair to say hello, and then did some minor barking.

For the next two nights we set up Aria in the visitor's bathroom. We
usually had the door closed, but sometimes had it open with a chids gate
across it so they could see one another without physically interacting.
The two bad things we noticed was an intense interest in Aria's food,
and a desire to speed up their interactions.

My wife then decided that the artificial light in the bathroom would be
bad for the cat and moved her to the den. However the dogs were
frustrated being denied access to the den. We spend a lot of time
working in there, and not being allowed in the den reduced their
interactions with us. It also has a carpet which makes a perfect
wrestling surface for them. Perhaps as a result they seemed to become
more aggressive towards Aria. At any rate while I was working late, my
wife took food to the cat leaving the doorway open. The dogs barged
their way through the childs gate, Peanut breathed in the cat's food,
and started barking at the cat. Smoky, as he often does, followed
Peanut's mood chased and caught the cat. After my wife and oldest
daughter broke up the fight Aria proved unharmed, but terrified of the
dogs.

We have now moved Aria to my oldest's bedroom, and no longer rely on the
childs gate. While Aria is now safe and interacting well with people, we
ar making little if any progress on introducing the dog and cat to one
another. Are there any suggestions on how to procede?

In article ,
(William Clodius) wrote:

While Aria is now safe and interacting well with people, we
ar making little if any progress on introducing the dog and cat to one
another. Are there any suggestions on how to procede?

Where do I begin? Cat food needs to be located so dogs cannot get to
it. Period. As does the cat box. Cat needs to have a place she can
retreat to where the dogs cannot reach her. Dogs need to be wearing
leashes. They need to have awesome recalls and stays. They need their
obedience worked on, every day.

We went through a rough 2 weeks with my first kitten and my then 10 yo
dog. Since then, the intros have all been incredibly smooth, mostly
because the cats have lived with dogs and vice versa. The first kitten
had her own room when we weren't home for those first few weeks. Dog
was on a leash when we brought kitten out when we were home. He was
praised for ignoring the cat and sternly corrected for trying to kill
her. Go figure! After the 2 weeks, the kitten decided that she was
"all that" and was very bold with the dog, eating his food, taking
rawhide chips from his mouth. Another cat moved in 2 years later
without a blink from the dog. Dog lived to 15.5 with both of those cats
without the slightest incident.

Slow and steady with CONTROL in place.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Janet Boss" wrote in message:

Slow and steady with CONTROL in place.

Question on the flip side. How do you make cats that aren't used to living
with dogs get used to them? Anything different from previous advice? I'm
assuming so, since you can't exactly 'train' cats the way you would dogs.
Speaking of which - why can't we recondition cats the same way we do dogs?
Scary dog appears, cats get something good. Eventually, scary dog is not so
scary.

I'm doing a HV for a family today that has cats, hamster, guinea pig, birds
and a gecko. And two kids, 3 and 6. They have already asked lots of
questions, and I want to be prepared. I will bring my two in to dog test
the kids and cats, but I would like some input on the cat question.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in message
...

Question on the flip side. How do you make cats that aren't used to
living
with dogs get used to them?

Slow and steady. And don't expect miracles. Some cats will become
acclimated fairly quickly, while others may take months or even years.
There are a few who will never get into the dog liking habit, but most
of them will at the very least get used to resident dogs enough to
coexist peacefully with them.

And then there are individuals who take a personal like or dislike to
other individuals. Pandora disliked Elliott until the day he died,
though they mostly coexisted peacefully because he respected her
boundaries, but she's always liked Harriet. Rory adored Elliott, and
would follow him around like a baby duckling, playing with him and
sleeping with him.

Anything different from previous advice? I'm
assuming so, since you can't exactly 'train' cats the way you would
dogs.
Speaking of which - why can't we recondition cats the same way we do
dogs?

You can, though. I acclimated all my cats to the hair dryer, to the
point that they would come running for pets whenever I turned it on.
I've taught cats to fetch. It takes a little longer and a little more
effort, but most cats *are* trainable and conditionable.

Scary dog appears, cats get something good. Eventually, scary dog is
not so
scary.

Exactly. Something good can be attention or stinky treats, same with
dogs. You just have to figure out what motivates the cat. And make
sure that the dog is cat safe and trained *first*. If one of the two is
under control and obviously not a threat, it makes the job easier.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

In article ,
"Shelly" wrote:

And make
sure that the dog is cat safe and trained *first*. If one of the two is
under control and obviously not a threat, it makes the job easier.

Ditto. A trained dog means that the cat is the only one needing work.
A dog who can leave the cat alone means a much swifter acclimation for
the cat.

I haven't brought a new cat into my home for almost 7 years. I brought
Skipjack home at about 12 weeks old, from the shelter. I put his
carrier on the floor and let everyone sniff. Then I brought it into the
laundry/cat room and opened it. The doorway had a gate that cats could
walk through, but dogs couldn't. Carey, 8+ at the time, immediately
came into the room and sniffed out this new little critter, and was
thrilled to see him. Skip approached the gate, as did Lucy and
Franklin, and there was no really big deal. The late afternoon and
evening progressed and Skip eventually climbed over a gate into the
office, and sat on the back of the loveseat where the 2 dogs were
napping. He growled the entire time. The dogs ignored him. By 10
p.m., he was asleep in a dog bed with Lucy.

The dogs make all the difference with many cats.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...

The dogs make all the difference with many cats.

Trained or untrained, unfortunately. Cats can have loooong memories and
can be unforgiving when an obnoxious dog wreaks havoc.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

In article ,
"Suja" wrote:

"Janet Boss" wrote in message:

Slow and steady with CONTROL in place.

Question on the flip side. How do you make cats that aren't used to living
with dogs get used to them? Anything different from previous advice? I'm
assuming so, since you can't exactly 'train' cats the way you would dogs.
Speaking of which - why can't we recondition cats the same way we do dogs?
Scary dog appears, cats get something good. Eventually, scary dog is not so
scary.

I'm doing a HV for a family today that has cats, hamster, guinea pig, birds
and a gecko. And two kids, 3 and 6. They have already asked lots of
questions, and I want to be prepared. I will bring my two in to dog test
the kids and cats, but I would like some input on the cat question.

Suja

Our daughter recently "gave" us a Maltese puppy to go along with our
four cats. We're still integrating, but apart from a few strained weeks
early on, things are ok. It helps that the dog is half the weight of
the smallest cat even if she looks the same size and that the dog is
responding well to training.

We did nothing to "train" the cats except pay extra attention to them.
They've gotten more petting and love and play in the past 10 weeks than
ever before.

We worked *very* hard on LEAVE IT with the dog, the first command we
taught, from day one, since two of the cats ran from her ever time they
saw or heard her bark. Keeping her on leash so we could stop pursuit
behavior was necessary. A tossed can filled with 15 pennies -- after
she sort of knew LEAVE IT -- also helped. Before she knew what we
wanted, we could have tossed a dozen cans and it wouldn't have stopped
her. LEAVE IT also worked with the downstairs cat litter.

The 10-year male cat was magnificent, establishing on the first day a
12-inch DMZ around himself into which the dog was not allowed. The
penalty was a gentle bat to the dog's head. The dog got the idea
immediately, without a single yelp. Ever since, that cat lets the dog
bark and run at and around him and invite play all the dog wants -- more
than I would tolerate -- without reaction, but the dog never invades
that personal space. When the cat got/gets jealous of attention paid
the dog, he inserts himself between us and the dog backs away.

The three-year-old female and the six-year old female cat were both
afraid of the dog and ran away. The dog pursued. We worked hard on
LEAVE IT on leash for two wild weeks. While we were working at this,
the three-year-old substituted navigation-at-height for running away,
even with the dog in pursuit below, making her way around the downstairs
on top of the furniture so she could still be with us. The six-year old
kept fleeing.

About four weeks into this, after the dog had stopped automatic chasing,
the three-year-old learned from watching the male cat to establish and
enforce personal space. The three of them aren't exactly playmates, but
they often lay or sit a foot or two apart now, sharing time with us
without bark, hiss, chase or other uproar. The dog invites the cats to
play, running at and around them, barking exuberantly, but she no longer
dashes after them if they leave.

At nine weeks, the six-year old, instead of running away when the dog
was inviting play, finally took two swats at the dog. That generated
the first loud yelps we'd heard. The dog still invites play from this
one, but from a few feet away. The cat has been siting in front of the
dog without fear or flight and has rejoined the family downstairs at
floor level. I don't think the cat is comfortable, but she has found a
way to be with us again and to keep the dog some distance away. It's
been a nice week ...

The fourth cat, a 12-year-old female, wants no part of the dog,
preferring to stay upstairs until the dog is asleep in its crate. She's
curious and non-threatening and daily inspects the dog through the
crate, but it's clear she wants no part of it. She feels the same way
about the three-year-old cat. I don't trust this one to be gentle if
the dog ever chases her or invites play and I worry what will happen
if/when the dog quietly figures out the stairs and invades this one's
upstairs territory.

I consider this peace "tentative," pending canine adolescence, but I do
trust the three downstairs cats alone with the uncrated dog while I'm in
the yard or my attention is wandering. Overall, I think the key things
to keeping the peace have been our intense focus on LEAVE IT with the
dog and our exaggerated efforts to coddle the cats.

I did all this some 35 years ago, successfully, with a spaniel, a setter
and four house/barn cats, but I have zero memory of what I did or why it
worked out ... I suspect the cats took care of it themselves.

Dick Muldoon
http://www.cassieforpredisent.com

"Shelly" wrote in message:

Slow and steady. And don't expect miracles. Some cats will become
acclimated fairly quickly, while others may take months or even years.
There are a few who will never get into the dog liking habit, but most
of them will at the very least get used to resident dogs enough to
coexist peacefully with them.

The plan for now is to do the HV and bring the dogs in, one at a time. Pan
first, because she ignores cats, to see how they react. For the most part,
the cats I've known tend to vanish when an intruder (two or four legged)
enters the space, so I'm not sure if there would be much point to bringing
Khan in unless the cats are unfazed by Pan. Khan is much more interested
and likely to get in their space, so that might be a better benchmark for
how the cats react to a somewhat rude (if well meaning) dog. The kids will
get to meet both dogs. I need to know how they do as well, although the dad
did say that the 3 year old is likely to be the one to try and stick his
hand inside a dog's mouth.

Exactly. Something good can be attention or stinky treats, same with
dogs. You just have to figure out what motivates the cat.

I'll let them know. So much of this is going to depend on how common
sensical they are.

And make
sure that the dog is cat safe and trained *first*. If one of the two is
under control and obviously not a threat, it makes the job easier.

Obviously. No way in hell I'm recommending anything other than an older,
more mellow, known good with dogs, cats and kids with low prey drive dog to
the family. They've got a lot on their plate, and success likely depends on
a dog that can move in as if he's lived there all his life. I don't know
why it is people think that adding puppies to such a household is a better
idea than bringing in an adult dog.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in message
...

For the most part,
the cats I've known tend to vanish when an intruder (two or four
legged)
enters the space,

It's hard to tell. If they're a boisterous, busy family with a lot of
comings and goings, then the cats might be gregarious. Pan, for
example, runs to the door whenever anyone knocks, but she's kind of a
mutant.

I need to know how they do as well, although the dad
did say that the 3 year old is likely to be the one to try and stick
his
hand inside a dog's mouth.

A future lion tamer?

I'll let them know. So much of this is going to depend on how common
sensical they are.

Absolutely. I would expect they'd be at least marginally clueful, given
how many animals they have, but you never know.

Obviously. No way in hell I'm recommending anything other than an
older,
more mellow, known good with dogs, cats and kids with low prey drive
dog to
the family.

You say obviously, but...

I don't know
why it is people think that adding puppies to such a household is a
better
idea than bringing in an adult dog.

I don't get it, either. But then, I'm not a huge puppy fan, so what do
I know?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

In article ,
"Suja" wrote:


From what I can tell, I think that a lot of people are under the impression
that a dog that fits in with their zoo would need to have grown up in said
zoo. Of course, there are plenty of dogs that are adaptable, and may even
have that sort of background, but people tend to not think of it that way.

Lucy moved in with us when she was 22 months old . At the time, the
cats that lived here were 5 and 15, my other dog was 10. Lucy pretty
much walked in, waved a paw to everyone, and asked where her bed and
bowl were. Talk about adaptive! I did bring my other dog to meet her
and then drove home with the 2 of them free in the back of my Explorer.
I crated her when I left the house for the first week, but I didn't
really need to. I just wanted to be sure and it gave me peace of mind.








Lucy has welcome several puppies and another cat during the decade that
she's been here, and she's always good natured about it.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com