"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message
news:saWZk.409805$TT4.43788@attbi_s22...
At our training facility we welcome bitches in season, as long as they
wear pants. Obviously we don't want to rub our dogs' noses in it, but they
*do* learn that they can think, and even perform, with good-smelling girls
around.

If I paid for classes and for four of those weeks, twice a year, the class
included a bitch in heat, whether she had pants on or not, I would not be
returning to class there.

Yes, my dogs need to learn to focus and to ignore temptations. But if I
need to be working on training a proper contact or weave pole entrance I
don't want to spend most of the class getting my dog's focus out of her
pants and on to me. Especially since it should not be necessary in an
agility ring for them to ignore an in season bitch. It may be a handy skill
but so are some others that I won't get to work on if his brain is even
partly elsewhere.

And in the case I mentioned, the dogs had a two second (or less) lapse in
focus. That's all it takes to get a refusal at the table. Spenser stopped
his forward motion and then got on the table and sat promptly. Sassy got on
the table and then dawdled because she didn't want to sit in that smell.
Spenser got a refusal. Sassy didn't, and did eventually sit. Both dogs
went on completely focused and finished the course.

You can't proof for everything. I can train my dogs to ignore almost
everything that goes on outside the ring and even much of what happens
inside it. But if a squirrel runs across the course while we're out there,
he'd better run fast because the schnauzers are going after him. At least
until it registers to me what's happening and I can use my Voice Of God for
their recall. And if my instructor started releasing squirrels in the
ring - or crating a barking crated dog right next to the weave entrance -
during my class, for four weeks at a time, I would find a new place to
train.

Judy

Judy wrote:

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message
news:saWZk.409805$TT4.43788@attbi_s22...

At our training facility we welcome bitches in season, as long as they
wear pants. Obviously we don't want to rub our dogs' noses in it, but
they *do* learn that they can think, and even perform, with
good-smelling girls around.


If I paid for classes and for four of those weeks, twice a year, the
class included a bitch in heat, whether she had pants on or not, I would
not be returning to class there.

Your choice. You won't be training at our facility (I'm sure you aren't
in my area anyway). And bitches are usually in season for three weeks
only, and truly in standing season for only a few days.

Yes, my dogs need to learn to focus and to ignore temptations. But if I
need to be working on training a proper contact or weave pole entrance I
don't want to spend most of the class getting my dog's focus out of her
pants and on to me. Especially since it should not be necessary in an
agility ring for them to ignore an in season bitch. It may be a handy
skill but so are some others that I won't get to work on if his brain is
even partly elsewhere.

Actually, as you've already experienced, in season girls WILL happen.
And even if one is not running in the ring in front of your dog (that's
very rare), chances are one will be on the property, or the owner of one
will be right ahead of you in line. If you are ever at an agility trial
in conjunction with a breed show there are likely to be many. I can
guarantee you your dog WILL have to deal with it. So like it or not, you
better train for it at home rather than having to do what you've already
encountered, have it slam the dog upside the head at a show.

I prefer to let my dog understand something in training before
encountering it at a show. The chances of a squirrel running across the
ring are pretty small. The chances of him encountering a girl in season
are pretty large. If you don't want to train for it that's your choice
but don't be surprised if you continue to have trouble at trials
occasionally.

Oh, and true story. We used to have our AKC agility trials at a horse
arena. And one trial afternoon there were two very fat black pigeons who
were insisting on lighting in the dirt of the jumpers ring to try to
pick it for grain, right in the middle of the trial. Cala frankly didn't
notice them until she came over a jump to see them sitting there, about
20 feet away. Already fast, she put on the jet burners. The pigeons saw
60# of black Doberman charging them, head down, and though, "oh ****."
and promptly did, then struggled to get off the ground. Cala's teeth
snapped on tail feathers. Ever since she's longed for that elusive
combination of birds *and* agility. Alas, it has never happened again.

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message
news:AEYZk.465764$yE1.15602@attbi_s21...
And bitches are usually in season for three weeks only, and truly in
standing season for only a few days.

When I was raising beagles I always figured 9 days coming, 9 days in and 9
days going. Yes, actual standing is only part of those middle nine days but
the bleeding can go on the entire time. (And should be a sign to even the
most clueless owner that the bitch is in heat.)

And even if one is not running in the ring in front of your dog (that's
very rare), chances are one will be on the property, or the owner of one
will be right ahead of you in line. If you are ever at an agility trial in
conjunction with a breed show there are likely to be many. I can guarantee
you your dog WILL have to deal with it. So like it or not, you better
train for it at home rather than having to do what you've already
encountered, have it slam the dog upside the head at a show.

Actually, all of those other situations are ones that we can and do deal
with - without intentionally using class time for it. The only problem
we've had - or that I expect to have - with an in season bitch was blood on
the table in the ring.

You just can't proof for everything. If I had problems with my dog reacting
to overly friendly dogs in line (far more common than in season bitches), I
wouldn't think that the solution was to bring that Golden into my agility
class to get in my dog's face for weeks at a time. I'd work on what focus I
could manage - in the face of various temptations and distractions - and
site manage the rest. And, once in a while, it's still going to be a
problem. Yes, that Golden owner *should* keep her dog out of my dog's face.
But in the case of the bitch in heat, it actually is against the rules.

The chances of a squirrel running across the ring are pretty small.

Actually, the chances of a squirrel or rabbit running across the ring are -
within my own sample - far greater. At one trial two summers ago, the judge
finally had to situate a person just outside one ring to keep the rabbits
out. I can keep the dogs' focus through the scent but the moving animal is
beyond our proofing.

but don't be surprised if you continue to have trouble at trials
occasionally.

As I said, we've had one problem in six years of trialing. Blood on the
table. Caused Spenser to stop for about a second and a half just in front
of the table - enough for a refusal. Never had a problem with a dog in heat
walking around the site or even just running in the ring.

Ever since she's longed for that elusive combination of birds *and*
agility. Alas, it has never happened again.

Ah, poor Cala. Sometimes once in a lifetime is enough, eh?

Judy

When I was raising beagles I always figured 9 days coming, 9 days in and 9
days going. Yes, actual standing is only part of those middle nine days
but the bleeding can go on the entire time. (And should be a sign to even
the most clueless owner that the bitch is in heat.)

snipped for brevity

I just wanted to say that regardless of the fact that clueless chard figures
into this thread, I've enjoyed reading this particular offshoot.

-sharon

Robin Nuttall wrote:

snip
Oh, and true story. We used to have our AKC agility trials at a horse
arena. And one trial afternoon there were two very fat black pigeons who
were insisting on lighting in the dirt of the jumpers ring to try to
pick it for grain, right in the middle of the trial. Cala frankly didn't
notice them until she came over a jump to see them sitting there, about
20 feet away. Already fast, she put on the jet burners. The pigeons saw
60# of black Doberman charging them, head down, and though, "oh ****."
and promptly did, then struggled to get off the ground. Cala's teeth
snapped on tail feathers. Ever since she's longed for that elusive
combination of birds *and* agility. Alas, it has never happened again.

Oh my god... Did she type it up and submit it to "Agility Penthouse
Forum"?!

I suspect Cooper has wet dreams about being allowed to kill something
small and furry after a victorious flyball run.

"Sharon Too" wrote in message
...
clueless chard

Who?

Kill files are wonderful things.................

Judy

chardonnay9 wrote:

Raw fed dogs don't die from parvo at nearly the same rate as kibble fed
dogs.

.... and then posts about 100 lines of anecdotal stuff about a completely
different disease. (Parvo is a virus, leptospirosis is bacterial.)

I'm surprised that not one of you who replied to her caught that :-).

BTW, cite please, the relative mortality in raw-fed vs. kibble-fed
dogs. TIA!

Dianne

Raw fed dogs don't die from parvo at nearly the same rate as kibble fed
dogs.

... and then posts about 100 lines of anecdotal stuff about a completely
different disease. (Parvo is a virus, leptospirosis is bacterial.)

I'm surprised that not one of you who replied to her caught that :-).

Yeah.... well...... why bother. We'd just get another scolding and lesson on
how raw fed dogs are apparently immune from everything. And how the current
state of our economy is the fault of ignorant kibble feeding dog owners.

Judy wrote:

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message


Actually, all of those other situations are ones that we can and do deal
with - without intentionally using class time for it. The only problem
we've had - or that I expect to have - with an in season bitch was blood
on the table in the ring.

shrug pretty much every top trainer I know allows intact bitches to
train while in season. Our facility does, and has no intention of
changing their policies. We've done it for years. The facility owners,
between them, own four intact male dogs (Terv, Springer, Whippet, Border
Terrier). Many of the instructors own intact male dogs as well. We all
firmly subscribe to the attitude that the boys need to learn to deal
with it. And they have. We haven't had a single problem, ever, with an
intact male not being able to work because an in season female is
nearby. In fact, the extra effort it takes the first time very quickly
fades. Dogs, even boy dogs, are not stupid. They figure out pretty fast
that they can't always indulge the gonads. That's a pretty good lesson
to learn.

In article BZa_k.411170$TT4.267580@attbi_s22,
Robin Nuttall wrote:
shrug pretty much every top trainer I know allows intact bitches to
train while in season. Our facility does, and has no intention of
changing their policies. We've done it for years. The facility owners,
between them, own four intact male dogs (Terv, Springer, Whippet, Border
Terrier). Many of the instructors own intact male dogs as well. We all
firmly subscribe to the attitude that the boys need to learn to deal
with it. And they have.

I've found this to be an enormously interesting discussion.
This is something that comes up a lot in mushing, because
people tend to have so many intact dogs and because you've
got teams on the trail at the same time. Some teams can
deal with it and some can't, but the big issue is always
that while you might know the abilities and limits of your
own team you really don't know that much about who else is
out there and regardless of how well-trained yours might be
it's a pretty safe bet that somebody else's isn't quite so
disciplined.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community