I have already posted this question but did not get any help. Maybe I
didn't make my situation clear. I live in a condo. I am
handicapped. I cannot go out when it's icy or snowing. Sometimes I
am in too much pain to go out at all.

My husband died three weeks ago. I have always wanted a dog and will
be getting a Papillon puppy in June. The breeder assures me that the
dog will be under 7lbs full grown which will be perfect for me.

Because of my physical limitations, I have to train it to use Wee Wee
pads. This does NOT mean I won't be taking the dog out for walks and
socializing. It's just that I cannot let it out alone to do it's
"business" and I'm not physically able to take it out every time it
needs to.

Having said that, can someone tell me what size Wee Wee pads would
work for a dog of 7lbs?

Thanks

Jane wrote:
I have already posted this question but did not get any help. Maybe I
didn't make my situation clear. I live in a condo. I am
handicapped. I cannot go out when it's icy or snowing. Sometimes I
am in too much pain to go out at all.

My husband died three weeks ago. I have always wanted a dog and will
be getting a Papillon puppy in June. The breeder assures me that the
dog will be under 7lbs full grown which will be perfect for me.

Because of my physical limitations, I have to train it to use Wee Wee
pads. This does NOT mean I won't be taking the dog out for walks and
socializing. It's just that I cannot let it out alone to do it's
"business" and I'm not physically able to take it out every time it
needs to.

Having said that, can someone tell me what size Wee Wee pads would
work for a dog of 7lbs?

The size of what pad you will *ultimately*
need won't be relevant for a year or so.

However, I have a few clients that have found
that medical hospital bed pads work and look
*just* like wee wee pads except for two main
differences: 1) they are about 50% larger,
and 2) they are waaayyyy cheaper.

That might be worth checking out.

FWIW, as long as you stay committed to
socializing your puppy and lots and lots of
training (if you have physical limitations,
you might want to start looking into clicker
training now so that you're ready when your
puppy arrives). Paps are sturdy, smart little
things, and if you don't keep their minds and
bodies engaged, their powers can easily be
turned from good to eeeeeevil ;-)

I'm so very sorry about your loss.

Great post Jer!


Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Resear ch_Laboratory wrote:
HOWEDY taragreen2, you pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug
coward active acute chronic life-long INCURABLE
DRUNKEN DRUG ADDICTED MENTAL CASE,

"Tara Green" wrote in message
...
Jane wrote:
I have already posted this question but did not get any help.

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
SNIP IDIOCY

The size of what pad you will *ultimately* need won't be relevant for a
year or so.

That so, taragreen2?

You ever SEEN a Papillon? They AIN'T MUCH
BIGGER as adults than as puppys. The "SIZE"
of the pad is directly proportional to HOWE many
Papillon puppys you can get to turn in 12 inch
circles; IOW, you could probably raise three Paps
their entire lives on WON double sheet of the
Daily News if you changed it a couple times a
day {}: ~ )

However, I have a few clients that have found that medical hospital bed
pads work and look *just* like wee wee pads except for two main
differences: 1) they are about 50% larger, and 2) they are waaayyyy
cheaper.

That so? You think they're cheaper than FREE, tara?

That might be worth checking out.

HOWE COME?? That's SHEER IDIOCY.

FWIW, as long as you stay committed to socializing your puppy and lots and
lots of training

That's MALARKEY, taragreen2, you pathetic
miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin
punk thug coward active acute chronic life-
long INCURABLE MALIGNANT MALICIHOWES
MENTAL PATIENT and PROFESSIONAL
OBEDIENCE TRAINER {}: ~ (

HERE'S HOWE COME:

taragreen2's PERSONAL REAL LIFE PAL wrote:

From: "LeeCharlesKelley"
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:53:11 -0400
Subject: Critical Socialization

"LeeCharlesKelley" wrote:
Okay, but if you're not still speechless, then explain why
more than 60% of Americans who take their dogs to a puppy
class report that the dog didn't learn anything and that
the experience was basically a waste of time and money?

Leah:
That one's easy. Because they didn't PRACTICE.

snip

if they don't continue to use what they learned after
class, of course the dogs are going to regress.

"Of course?" You have a pretty low opinion of a puppy's
ability to learn and remember, even though they do it all
the time with no repetitions and no regression.

Or just maybe they *didn't* regress. Maybe they didn't really
learn anything in class because the kind of training you use is
DETRIMENTAL TO THE LEARNING PROCESS, as I stated
earlier.

If it were real learning then the dogs
wouldn't, "of course" regress, would they?

Maybe you remember the example I gave of a dog at the dog
run who instantly learned a new behavior WHILE PLAYING,
and never forgot it.

Or the example I gave about my dog learning the command,
"Up the stairs!", once, just once, and has never regressed
or forgotten the lesson.

He'll still do it every single time, eleven years after he
learned it. Hang on, I'm going to take him out in the hall
right now, where his expecation is to go DOWN the stairs,
not up, and I'm going to tell him, "Up the stairs!" to see
if he really does still remember it . . .

Yep, he went right up the stairs when I told him to,
so nope, he hasn't regressed. I wonder why that is.

But then, I forgot: you believe that learning can't take
place without repetition, so "of course" the puppy will
regress if the owner doesn't keep up with the lessons.

That's only natural, right?

Wrong.

Maybe it's time to give credence to the idea that there's
another model of learning -- which comes naturally to
all animals -- and which doesn't require repetition or
the expectation that the learning will regress.

Just a thought . . .

------------------

From: "LeeCharlesKelley"
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:57:57 -0400
Subject: Critical

"LeeCharlesKelley" wrote:

Yep, he went right up the stairs when I told him to,
so nope, he hasn't regressed. I wonder why that is.

Leah:Duh. Because you USE the command regularly?

Who sez? I've gone years without using it at all.

And you're forgetting the fact that a day or two after I
taught him the command (inside the apartment building where
we lived at the time), I was walking Fred along a street on
the way to the park. I stopped in front of a brownstone, a
building we'd never been (and still haven't).

I gave him the command and he immediately obeyed it. The
second time in his life he heard it, he obeyed it, even
though there was no possible reason for him to do so, other
than the fact that I told him to.

Why?

I also taught him once, just once, not to cross a curb
without me. He hasn't forgotten that one either.

Why?

Leah:

If the owner knows the method to stop the puppy from pulling
on the leash, yet lets the puppy pull him all over the place,
the puppy will not stop pulling on the leash.
This is a no-brainer.

No, *this* is: If the puppy had actually been taught not
to pull on the leash, he would stop pulling on the leash.

I'm sure everyone here, if they thought about it, could
come up with their own examples (like the one I gave about
the dog learning a new behavior WHILE PLAYING in the dog
run) of dogs they've observed learning a new behavior once,
and never forgetting it.

It's the most natural form of learning there is.

But it requires that the dog be in a high-level emotional
state when the learning takes place, which is something
that *can't* be accomplished in a puppy class.

Puppy clases are, generally speaking,
detrimental to the learning process.

---------------

LeeCharlesKelley Wrote:

-From what I've read of Jerry's method it incorporates
a completely new model of learning, which is based (in
simplest terms) on the idea that all behavior is the
result of finding a way to relieve emotional tension.

This is true not just for dogs but all animals.

You don't believe in the validity of this particular
model of learning? You don't think it makes sense?

Fine, I guess.

But it makes total sense to me.

And it made sense to Pavlov, too,
though not many people know this.

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are
what reinforces any behavior.

Finn once saw a small mouse come out of a hole
atthe base of a tree. Needless to say his prey
instinct kicked in BIG TIME and he chased it
back into the hole. This was 7 years before
he died. Up until the very last time he walked
through that section of the park (an hour before
he went) he checked the base of that tree.

He saw that mouse exactly *once*....he never
saw it again. Don't we all have stories like
that?

Especially those of us with dogs whose
prey drives are pretty intense?

And there are lots of examples that may not
even require the prey drive to be active,
just a strong desire to do something: a dog
who wants to escape from the back yard will
learn how to do it once and never forget it,
a dog who wants to jump on the couch or the
bed doesn't need any repetitions to "reinforce"
or re-learn the behavior.

If something is important to a dog, he'll
learn how to do it. Once he learns it, he
learns it. The TRICK to getting him to
"unlearn" it, is to give him a more emotionally
satisfying replacement behavior.

With Oscar and the cat, the more satisfying
behavior was relating to me instead of the cat.
(He's a Lab, with a strong need for social
connections, so that was pretty easy.)

I've been experimenting recently with Jerry
Howe's method of using a sound distraction,
then praising the dog, without any physical
contact, for 15 seconds.

My initial reaction to his technique was that
it was silly to keep praising the dog that long.

I mean, Jerry's a nut, right?

But in every case except one, when I've followed
the exercise exactly, I've seen a definite
physiological change take place in the dog -
- yawning or stretching have been the usual
indicators -- and after only a few repetitions,
the dog often relaxes, curls up, and goes to sleep!

I've tried this on barking, counter-surfing,
separation anxiety, even two dogs who live
together and fight constantly. I was pretty
amazed when I saw this little Boston give up
her aggression and start to yawn!

It's too early for me to be convinced that it
will work every single time with every single
dog, or that it will even have a lasting effect
on these dogs, but so far I think that it's
effective at reducing emotional tension, which,
as you know, I believe that all behavior comes
from the dog trying to find a way to reduce
emotional tension. If you give the dog a
replacement behavior that successfully reduces
emotional tension, the first behavior will no
longer be necessary and the dog will stop doing it.

LeeCharlesKelley.

---------------

(if you have physical limitations,

You mean, like ADDICTION {}: ~ )

you might want to start looking into clicker training now so that you're
ready when your puppy arrives).

You mean offerin an witholding BRIBES, taragreen2??:



"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of
"negative reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY
EVERY LEARNING THEORY model involves
the USE OF PUNISHMENT.


Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."


SEE?


THAT'S HOWE COME elegy MURDERED her
DEAD "RESCUE" dog Harve when IT TURNED
ON HER for offerin an withHOWELDING bribes
an FORCIN IT into a box to AVOID TRAININ IT;
NO SURPRISE IT WENT INSANE {}: ~ (


Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.


"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.


"All Animals Learn Beast Through Play," Lorenz.


A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!


-------------


The Embry Study:


"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.


Thus, suggestions to parents that they
talk to or reason with their children about
dashing into the street will likely to have
the opposite impact.


Reprimands do not punish
unsafe behavior; they reward it."


Source:


"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Report
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."


--------------


"Motivation Of The Resistance To Coercion "-- PAVLOV:


"Reflexes of purpose and freedom" in the comparative
physiology of higher nervous activity, Institute of
Higher Nervous Activity and Neurophysiology, Academy
of Sciences, Moscow:


The most complex unconditioned "reflexes of aim and
freedom," discovered by I.P. Pavlov, are compared
with the "competence drive" and the "motivation of the
resistance to coercion," respectively, described by
contemporary ethologists.


On the basis of the unconditioned "reflex of purpose,"
conditioned reflexes were developed in which positive
emotions arising in connection with the perfection of
a skill, irrespective of its pragmatic significance at
a given moment, serve as the reinforcement.


The unconditioned "reflex of freedom" is regarded as a
phylogenetic precursor of the will, and its acute extinction
as the physiological mechanism of hypnosis. It was
demonstrated experimentally that the appearance of the
state of "animal hypnosis" (immobilization catatonia) in
rabbits is accompanied by the predominance of electrical
activity and heat production in the right hemisphere, i.e.,
by symptoms which are found in hypnosis in man.


Simonov PV/h4
Publication Types:ulliReview/liliReview,
tutorial/li/ulPMID: 2215892, UI: 91015681/blockquote
!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
transitional//en"


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-po...uid=2215892&am
p;form=6&db=m&Dopt=bNeurosciBehavPhysiol1990May-Jun;20(3):230-5


-------------------


"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).


Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental HANDLING
of the child (Szrynski 1965).


A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."


"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.


Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic therapists.


Research in four areas :


1) direct evaluation of programmed systems for learning;
2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and
4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH
the claims of operant programers."


----------------------

Paps are sturdy, smart little things,

That so, taragreen2? Oh, you mean JUST LIKE
ANY OTHER DOG, otherWIZE you'd be a BREED
RACISTS on TOP OF bein a LYIN ANIMAL MURDERIN
MENTAL PATIENT {}: ~ )

and if you don't keep their minds and bodies
engaged, their powers can easily be turned from good to eeeeeevil ;-)

NO, taragreen2; it's your PROFESSIONAL
OBEDIENCE TRAININ and surgical sexual
mutilation that causes NEUROTIC, HYPERACTIVE
and FEAR AGGRESSION behaviors {}: ~ (

I'm so very sorry about your loss.

INDEED:

Here's HOWE COME you chronic
manic depressives "GRIEVE SO":

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi...008/627/1?etoc
Why It's Hard to Say Goodbye
By Andrea Lu
ScienceNOW Daily News
27 June 2008


With all the heartache it causes, why do some people
have so much trouble letting go of their grief? In an
ironic twist, new research shows that the brain's
pleasure center may be to blame.

Most people, when confronted with the death of a
loved one, mourn intensely for a few weeks or months
and then gradually manage to move on.

A small percentage, however, become debilitated by the
loss and can't resume their normal lives; they experience
what psychologists call complicated grief.

Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), which
measures blood flow to various parts of the brain, has
shown that grief activates regions of the brain associated
with processing pain.

However, no study had yet observed what happens
in the brain during complicated grief.

In the new work, which will be published in the 15
August issue of NeuroImage, researchers led by
clinical psychologist Mary-Frances O'Connor of the
University of California, Los Angeles, looked at 23
women who had lost a mother or sister to breast
cancer within the past 5 years.

Based on a clinical assessment, the researchers
divided the women into complicated and noncomplicated grievers. They then
showed the women a series of 60
pictures that paired a photo of a stranger or the deceased
loved one with either a grief-related word (e.g., cancer) or
a similar-looking but emotionally neutral word (e.g., ginger).

The purpose of the words was to make the images of
relatives seem fresh, even if the women had already
viewed them several times on their own.

As expected, fMRI revealed strong activity in pain-processing
areas of the brain when the women saw photos of their relatives
or grief-related words.


No such effect appeared when subjects saw neutral
words or photos of strangers. The surprise came when
women diagnosed with complicated grief looked at a
picture of their relative or a grief-related word:

In addition to activity in pain-processing areas of the
brain, these women showed activity in the nucleus
accumbens, a region of the brain linked to pleasure
and reward.

The findings could mean that the brains of women with
complicated grief have not properly adjusted to the fact
that their loved ones are gone, O'Connor speculates.

When humans become attached to someone, they
derive pleasure from the attachment, and their nucleus
accumbens activate, she notes. And because that area
is also active when women with complicated grief see
reminders of a dead relative, it may signal that these
women have a harder time accepting the death of a
loved one than noncomplicated grievers do.

At the very least, says O'Connor, scientists may now
have a clinical marker that can help them distinguish
among women with complicated and noncomplicated grief.

-------------------------

Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME you're a INCURABLE
DRUNKEN DRUG CRAZED MENTAL PATIENT, eh, tara??

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

chardonnay9 wrote:
Great post Jer!



Which part was great?

Pretty much the whole thing was one quote
after another from a guy who has only the
sketchiest of training on any of the dogs he
walks around my own neighborhood. He talks
great talks, but n action, his dogs tend to
be as out of control as those that never had
any training.

There's a big difference between believing
what you read in a newsgroup because it
supports what you already want to believe,
and seeing something with your own eyes. The
fact that I have known Lee since the mid 90's
gives me a perspective on his handling and
training that even Jerry has never had.

Was *that* the really great part Chard?
Cuz given my first hand knowledge of what you
responded to, that would make your comment
hysterically funny.

Besides the wee wee pads you might want to consider on of the litter
pans designed for small dogs. If I was in this situation I would lean
more towards a doggie litter pan.

Spot

"Jane" wrote in message
...
I have already posted this question but did not get any help. Maybe I
didn't make my situation clear. I live in a condo. I am
handicapped. I cannot go out when it's icy or snowing. Sometimes I
am in too much pain to go out at all.

My husband died three weeks ago. I have always wanted a dog and will
be getting a Papillon puppy in June. The breeder assures me that the
dog will be under 7lbs full grown which will be perfect for me.

Because of my physical limitations, I have to train it to use Wee Wee
pads. This does NOT mean I won't be taking the dog out for walks and
socializing. It's just that I cannot let it out alone to do it's
"business" and I'm not physically able to take it out every time it
needs to.

Having said that, can someone tell me what size Wee Wee pads would
work for a dog of 7lbs?

Thanks

Get a cat.