In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Even the diabetes association now supports a low carb diet
for people to control/eliminate diabetes.
Sigh. That does not imply a causal link, nor should it for
anybody with a grade 9 education.
Only in your world Melinda.

Clearly not in yours, which is why people give you so much
****. You're just wrong on your facts far too often, and
this is both of an example of you being factually incorrect
(your assertion that carbs cause diabetes) and *why* you're
incorrect (not understanding why it's incorrect to go from
"diabetics are often prescribed low-carb diets" - "carbs
cause diabetes").
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Even the diabetes association now supports a low carb diet
for people to control/eliminate diabetes.
Sigh. That does not imply a causal link, nor should it for
anybody with a grade 9 education.
Only in your world Melinda.

Clearly not in yours, which is why people give you so much
****.

Only on this group my dear.....

Sharon Too wrote:
Assuming we get through this, I am switching to raw meat
and probably eventually to the raw meat and bone
diet.

If you are taking Chard's advice, do it with a major amount of forethought.
She is no doctor, scientist, researcher or any kind of expert. She
attributes absolutely everything to kibble because she has an agenda. Kibble
doesn't cause diabetes any more than raw meat cures it.



I totally agree with Sharon.

And I say this as someone who feeds raw.

I totally agree with Sharon.

And I say this as someone who feeds raw.

Raw can be done safely and effectively. No arguement there. But it has to be
done very carefully with much attention to salmonella issues and complete
dietary requirements.

Sharon Too wrote:
Assuming we get through this, I am switching to raw meat
and probably eventually to the raw meat and bone
diet.

If you are taking Chard's advice, do it with a major amount of forethought.
She is no doctor, scientist, researcher or any kind of expert.

You don't know if I'm a doctor or any kind of expert. Why are you lying?

She
attributes absolutely everything to kibble because she has an agenda.

Nope, that is another lie. I only attribute to kibble what kibble causes.


Kibble
doesn't cause diabetes any more than raw meat cures it.

Another lie. You are on a roll!

There are so many dogs out there who lost the diabetes when switched
away from kibble. You'd not know though because you won't get your head
out of your ass long enough to actually research it.

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
You don't know if I'm a doctor or any kind of expert.

We do know that you're not. You write like someone with no
scientific training whatsoever, and when I say "no
scientific training" I'm including high school science
classes.

For example:
There are so many dogs out there who lost the diabetes when switched
away from kibble. You'd not know though because you won't get your head
out of your ass long enough to actually research it.

1) your reliance on anecdote rather than controlled
experimentation,
2) your use of the phrase "lost the diabetes"
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Melinda Shore wrote:

2) your use of the phrase "lost the diabetes"

I lost my diabetes once.

I had accidentally kicked it under the bed.

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
You don't know if I'm a doctor or any kind of expert.

We do know that you're not. You write like someone with no
scientific training whatsoever, and when I say "no
scientific training" I'm including high school science
classes.

"We" who? Got a mouse in your pocket? Anyone that reads this group can
see you've got some serious mental problems. I think it just freaks you
out that you don't know anything about me.

And you won't.

I gues the idea is to make the information on line and elsewhere
as confusing as possible. When you go to the vet, he or she will
report that the blood sugar is elevated generally above 200. But
you might later discover on your own that the level is
also reported on the lab test as mg/dl. Whatever that means
metrically. It's a three digit number that appears on the machine
that analyzes the blood sample. But are you really going to
be sticking your dog at home in the ear every couple of days?

How likely is it that your dog will want you to be pricking
his ears even a few times a week? One vet here recommends the
urine strips. Of course, the elevated color indicator, where you
match the color on the strip to that on the box shows a level
of over 2000, which I think corresponds to the vet's instrument that
reports 200--and also the human instrument. Or is the sugar
in the urine ten times higher than in the blood?

If it's over 300, and the dog is in ketoacidosis,
demonstrating no appetite and lethargic,
as my little guy was, hydration is needed, maybe just a subcutaneous
injection, and if no insulin administration program is in place already,
insulin is called for in a minimum dose. If you look really hard, you
may find
that one apparent reason for this is that long-lasting levels above
250 can cause blindness in dogs. That important information is
left out of most of the resources I checked. And just how long
is "prolonged"?

Then there are the different types of insulin, short-acting,
intermediate-acting, and long-acting. I'm currently using
an intermediate-acting, Humulin N. You have to use a
different syringe, differently calibrated. It's hard to read
the calibrations.

Finally, I am thinking that the only reason my little guy has
survived since his diagnosis is that I borrowed some
insulin, "Vetsulin" from a neighbor and we gave him a shot
(different syringe) after two consecutive nights of distress and ER
diagnoses of DKA, diabetic ketoacidosis. A life-threatening emergency
but the plan I turned down against medical advice early
Sunday morning, with blood glucose levels again in the
300s, did NOT include administration of insulin. A much
more believable ER doc the next night was insisting that
DKA dogs need insulin.

And I accidentally gave the dog too high a dose of
insulin, but I think that may have saved his life too.
(He got three units of Vetsulin, which the much more
knowledgeable ER doc told me was more appropriate
for a dog three times his size.)

The next day's experience is illustrative of the problems.
An early morning blood glucose level of 155, after
fasting several hours and two administrations of
insulin within eight hours the previous day was followed
by a high level of over 300 four hours later, after a
low carb high protein meal. So the insulin was wearing
out, I guess, after about twenty hours.

But another thing you have to adjust for
is that anxiety such as being at the Vet's causes elevated
blood sugar levels.

So that night I agonized, twelve hours after the administration
of insulin at the Vet and a high level urine strip test, whether
to do my first injection. I decided to go ahead.

And my little "Stuart" is now doing well on four units
twice a day. I wrote up his experiences in two e-mails
to friends entitled "Stuart Saved by his Family", because
the information and advice I got from friends was in some
cases more valuable than what I got on the internet and
from some of the ER vets (who charged me a fortune and
proposed hospitalization for many hours and NO insulin.)

Based on my limited two-week but intense experience,
here are my suggestions and I urge those who know more
than I to correct me or add or modify:

1. I think it's a good idea to correlate the use of the urine
strips and the blood glucose levels. If they reflect basically
the same levels when taken around the same time, maybe
you can just use the strips and save yourself some money
and your pet some anxiety (that may itself cause elevated
blood glucose levels).

2. With a diagnosis of DKA, get some insulin into the dog,
as well as the fluids, etc.

3. I think the low-carb diet makes sense. I had been
giving my dog lots of human food, but not junky human
food. I'm now mixing in a little high-fiber dog food
and it's amazing how little information about content
(sugar, carbs, etc.) is on dog food, even specialized
dog food. For example, I can't really tell if the dog food that I
was giving him before is appropriate now. Innova
foods are probably better generally than Purina (high
fiber). But since he is underweight, some sources suggest
that a low-fiber diet is better.


Thanks to others here for their suggestions as well.




--
A. Brain



Remove NOSPAM for email.

A. Brain wrote:

An early morning blood glucose level of 155, after
fasting several hours and two administrations of
insulin within eight hours the previous day was followed
by a high level of over 300 four hours later, after a
low carb high protein meal. So the insulin was wearing
out, I guess, after about twenty hours.

But another thing you have to adjust for
is that anxiety such as being at the Vet's causes elevated
blood sugar levels.

So that night I agonized, twelve hours after the administration
of insulin at the Vet and a high level urine strip test, whether
to do my first injection. I decided to go ahead.

There are other ways to lower the sugar levels that might help out along
with the insulin. One that I've used is cinnamon. I get the extract and
take it twice a day.

Also there is mounting evidence that alpha lipoic acid can normalize
readings as well.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/05/16/This-Antioxidant-Can-Smash-Insulin-Resistance-and-Autoimmune-Disease.aspx

I know my own readings have dropped to normal from taking 600 mg daily
of the ALA.



And my little "Stuart" is now doing well on four units
twice a day. I wrote up his experiences in two e-mails
to friends entitled "Stuart Saved by his Family", because
the information and advice I got from friends was in some
cases more valuable than what I got on the internet and
from some of the ER vets (who charged me a fortune and
proposed hospitalization for many hours and NO insulin.)

Imagine that! Vets often give outdated information because they don't
keep up with current studies. I just read an article yesterday that said
yearly vaccinations are a must when it's common knowledge that we are
over vaccinating our pets and causing autoimmune diseases and much more.
The information was so bad I double checked the date it was written
because it was certainly not recent information.


Based on my limited two-week but intense experience,
here are my suggestions and I urge those who know more
than I to correct me or add or modify:

1. I think it's a good idea to correlate the use of the urine
strips and the blood glucose levels. If they reflect basically
the same levels when taken around the same time, maybe
you can just use the strips and save yourself some money
and your pet some anxiety (that may itself cause elevated
blood glucose levels).

I've not had to deal with diabetes in my pets, probably because they
have an almost carb free diet. However, from conversations I've had with
people who do have such pets they use the urine strips. I've seen
numerous pets totally lose their diabetes when switched to a raw diet
with no veggies at all.


2. With a diagnosis of DKA, get some insulin into the dog,
as well as the fluids, etc.

3. I think the low-carb diet makes sense.

It does, almost as much as *no* carbs

I had been
giving my dog lots of human food, but not junky human
food. I'm now mixing in a little high-fiber dog food
and it's amazing how little information about content
(sugar, carbs, etc.) is on dog food, even specialized
dog food. For example, I can't really tell if the dog food that I
was giving him before is appropriate now. Innova
foods are probably better generally than Purina (high
fiber). But since he is underweight, some sources suggest
that a low-fiber diet is better.

If it is kibble it's highly likely that it's high in carbs. Even the
ones supposedly made for diabetic dogs are too high in carbs.

Go raw and add ALA and it's very likely the problem will totally go away.



Thanks to others here for their suggestions as well.