My little one, a ten year old "Schnoodle", has
seemingly developed a diabetes-like condition,
with frequent urination, desire for water, etc.

It happened suddenly, with a day and a half
of accidents in the house--unheard of with this
wonderful little dog.

He also had a high temp, and after a shot
of antibiotic, that returned to normal,
less than 24 hours later

His blood sugar and urine sugar show that
there is a problem, but I am hoping to
lick this with diet.

The question is what diet. My vet prescribed
a Purina "DCO" dual fiber control dry food. I think
maybe he should be on high fiber, low carb,
as that diet is now recommended for many
humans with diabetes. (Plus he does not
like the Purina, even when I add chicken
broth). The vet also suggested that the dog
needs to avoid fats--I think sugars are the enemy.

He is not overweight; if anything, he is underweight.

Any thoughts? I'd hate to have to put him
on daily insulin.

--
A. Brain



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"A. Brain" said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

His blood sugar and urine sugar show that
there is a problem, but I am hoping to
lick this with diet.

http://www.petcarebooks.com/

I own this author's book on canine epilepsy, you may want to
look into her _Dogs, Diet and Disease_ (subtitled "An Owner’s
Guide to Diabetes Mellitus, Pancreatitis, Cushing’s Disease, and
More").

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

A. Brain wrote:
My little one, a ten year old "Schnoodle", has
seemingly developed a diabetes-like condition,
with frequent urination, desire for water, etc.

It happened suddenly, with a day and a half
of accidents in the house--unheard of with this
wonderful little dog.

He also had a high temp, and after a shot
of antibiotic, that returned to normal,
less than 24 hours later

His blood sugar and urine sugar show that
there is a problem, but I am hoping to
lick this with diet.

The question is what diet. My vet prescribed
a Purina "DCO" dual fiber control dry food. I think
maybe he should be on high fiber, low carb,
as that diet is now recommended for many
humans with diabetes. (Plus he does not
like the Purina, even when I add chicken
broth). The vet also suggested that the dog
needs to avoid fats--I think sugars are the enemy.

He is not overweight; if anything, he is underweight.

Any thoughts? I'd hate to have to put him
on daily insulin.


This is another disease frequently caused by kibble and cured by
returning him to the diet made for carnivores, raw meat. He does not
need to avoid fats. It's totally not relevant to the diabetes. Indeed,
good fats are needed by the dog, the best one being fish oil and don't
cut the fat off the meat.

Low carb is the answer, not fats or fiber.

"The reason for his success is quite simple. Cats and dogs are obligate
carnivores. They have no nutritional requirement for grains. Unlike
humans, they derive their energy from proteins and fats. Commercial pet
foods have a high grain content because it is used as an inexpensive
filler. Dog and cat pancreas' eventually "wear out" trying to metabolize
grains that these animals were never meant to eat in the first place.
Give them a biologically appropriate diet of the food they would eat if
in the wild and their pancreas' can go back to working at a normal
level, thereby resolving the diabetes."
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/nutr...P_barfdiet.htm

People who have switched their dogs to a raw diet from commercial dog
foods have found the following:

* dogs who were previously un-energetic, and sluggish become
completely new dogs once the raw diet feeding begins
* allergies their dogs previously had on commercial foods,
disappear once they start with the raw diet
* arthritis has significantly reduced or disappeared in some dogs
switched to raw
* better weight control
* no more doggy odour!
* their dogs are living longer on a raw diet than what their other
dogs previously had survived on commercial dog foods
* that their bitches managed their pregnancies better
* better weight and survival figures in puppies


Why is commercial dog food not good for my dog?
There are a range of problems with commercial dog foods. I will provide
some links below, but in summary:


1. a dog's food should never be cooked. It should be fed in a raw
natural state like nature intended. Cooking a dog's food ruins most of
the nutritional value.
2. dogs should have access to raw meaty bones. These clean their
teeth, work and develop their neck and jaw muscles, and the chewing
action prepares their stomach for the incoming food mass. Chewing bones
also slows down the eating process considerably, making it far harder
for a dog to over eat.
3. dog foods have as their main ingredient cereals - the main
ingredient your dog should be eating is raw meaty bones. And it is these
very cereals that cause a range of problems such as allergies.
4. commercial dog foods are laden with preservatives, colors (dyes),
and salt. They have additives to make the food taste better so that the
dogs will overeat.
5. the vast majority of commercial dog foods have far too much
carbohydrates in them. High levels of carbohydrates are linked to
over-eating, diabetes, weight gain, and numerous other problems. Dogs
should eat a diet with only a small amount of carbs.
6. there is no substitute for a raw diet.

and most scarey of all:

7. your vet is most probably recommending a commercial diet because
of financial inducements and a lack of independent learning.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

"Rocky" wrote in message:

I own this author's book on canine epilepsy, you may want to
look into her _Dogs, Diet and Disease_ (subtitled "An Owner's
Guide to Diabetes Mellitus, Pancreatitis, Cushing's Disease, and
More").

I have that book. It wasn't particularly useful for Cushing's, but has
extensive information about DM and potential treatments for it.

Suja

"chardonnay9" wrote in message
m...
A. Brain wrote:
My little one, a ten year old "Schnoodle", has
seemingly developed a diabetes-like condition,
with frequent urination, desire for water, etc.

It happened suddenly, with a day and a half
of accidents in the house--unheard of with this
wonderful little dog.

He also had a high temp, and after a shot
of antibiotic, that returned to normal,
less than 24 hours later

His blood sugar and urine sugar show that
there is a problem, but I am hoping to
lick this with diet.

The question is what diet. My vet prescribed
a Purina "DCO" dual fiber control dry food. I think
maybe he should be on high fiber, low carb,
as that diet is now recommended for many
humans with diabetes. (Plus he does not
like the Purina, even when I add chicken
broth). The vet also suggested that the dog
needs to avoid fats--I think sugars are the enemy.

He is not overweight; if anything, he is underweight.

Any thoughts? I'd hate to have to put him
on daily insulin.


This is another disease frequently caused by kibble and cured by
returning him to the diet made for carnivores, raw meat. He does not
need to avoid fats. It's totally not relevant to the diabetes. Indeed,
good fats are needed by the dog, the best one being fish oil and don't
cut the fat off the meat.

Low carb is the answer, not fats or fiber.

"The reason for his success is quite simple. Cats and dogs are
obligate carnivores. They have no nutritional requirement for grains.
Unlike humans, they derive their energy from proteins and fats.
Commercial pet foods have a high grain content because it is used as
an inexpensive filler. Dog and cat pancreas' eventually "wear out"
trying to metabolize grains that these animals were never meant to eat
in the first place. Give them a biologically appropriate diet of the
food they would eat if in the wild and their pancreas' can go back to
working at a normal level, thereby resolving the diabetes."
http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/nutr...P_barfdiet.htm

People who have switched their dogs to a raw diet from commercial dog
foods have found the following:

* dogs who were previously un-energetic, and sluggish become
completely new dogs once the raw diet feeding begins
* allergies their dogs previously had on commercial foods,
disappear once they start with the raw diet
* arthritis has significantly reduced or disappeared in some dogs
switched to raw
* better weight control
* no more doggy odour!
* their dogs are living longer on a raw diet than what their other
dogs previously had survived on commercial dog foods
* that their bitches managed their pregnancies better
* better weight and survival figures in puppies


Why is commercial dog food not good for my dog?
There are a range of problems with commercial dog foods. I will
provide some links below, but in summary:


1. a dog's food should never be cooked. It should be fed in a raw
natural state like nature intended. Cooking a dog's food ruins most of
the nutritional value.
2. dogs should have access to raw meaty bones. These clean their
teeth, work and develop their neck and jaw muscles, and the chewing
action prepares their stomach for the incoming food mass. Chewing
bones also slows down the eating process considerably, making it far
harder for a dog to over eat.
3. dog foods have as their main ingredient cereals - the main
ingredient your dog should be eating is raw meaty bones. And it is
these very cereals that cause a range of problems such as allergies.
4. commercial dog foods are laden with preservatives, colors
(dyes), and salt. They have additives to make the food taste better so
that the dogs will overeat.
5. the vast majority of commercial dog foods have far too much
carbohydrates in them. High levels of carbohydrates are linked to
over-eating, diabetes, weight gain, and numerous other problems. Dogs
should eat a diet with only a small amount of carbs.
6. there is no substitute for a raw diet.

and most scarey of all:

7. your vet is most probably recommending a commercial diet because
of financial inducements and a lack of independent learning.
http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html



Thanks for the responses and advice. I thouhgt we had
the problem resolved, but a week after the intial symptoms,
he had a relapse of heavy urination, etc. and lethargy.

I took him to the ER and they found him to be in
diabetic ketoacidosis, by all accounts a life-threatening
emergency. Several hours later, I took him to the vet
for IV fluids and clearing the system of ketones. H
was there all day, at a reasonable cost of about $270,
as compared to what the ER wanted, over three times
that, for a hospitalization of about six hours. And I had
to sign him out "against medical advice".

Tonight he's back home with me and still not feeling
too good, not eating and urinating heavily. I am
just hoping to get through the weekend, as his
glucose was not that high after treatment. I'm also
wondering if he's constipated, adding to the mix
of problems. (Lethargy and loss of appetite are
associated with constipation.)


Assuming we get through this, I am switching to raw meat
and probably eventually to the raw meat and bone
diet. He still likes a couple of slices of cantaloupe
in the morning with me and that is fairly low-carb
and also has fiber and I am going to add vegetables
as well.

I'd been feeding him "Innova", supposedly one of the
better dog foods, but I'm disinlcined to continue, even though
I had always supplemented it with other human food
like eggs and cheese. A friend who likes the raw diet
recommends canned pumpkin for fiber.


Thanks again!


--
A. Brain



Remove NOSPAM for email.

A. Brain wrote:



Thanks for the responses and advice. I thouhgt we had
the problem resolved, but a week after the intial symptoms,
he had a relapse of heavy urination, etc. and lethargy.

I took him to the ER and they found him to be in
diabetic ketoacidosis, by all accounts a life-threatening
emergency. Several hours later, I took him to the vet
for IV fluids and clearing the system of ketones. H
was there all day, at a reasonable cost of about $270,
as compared to what the ER wanted, over three times
that, for a hospitalization of about six hours. And I had
to sign him out "against medical advice".

Tonight he's back home with me and still not feeling
too good, not eating and urinating heavily. I am
just hoping to get through the weekend, as his
glucose was not that high after treatment. I'm also
wondering if he's constipated, adding to the mix
of problems. (Lethargy and loss of appetite are
associated with constipation.)


Assuming we get through this, I am switching to raw meat
and probably eventually to the raw meat and bone
diet. He still likes a couple of slices of cantaloupe
in the morning with me and that is fairly low-carb
and also has fiber and I am going to add vegetables
as well.

I'd been feeding him "Innova", supposedly one of the
better dog foods, but I'm disinlcined to continue, even though
I had always supplemented it with other human food
like eggs and cheese. A friend who likes the raw diet
recommends canned pumpkin for fiber.


Thanks again!


You are welcome!

Dogs don't need fiber in the same way that an omnivore or herbivore
does. In my experience bones usually firm up a stool which is the
opposite of what I think of fiber doing. I think if you notice a dog
seems constipated the fastest way to get a stool is by feeding liver.
And remember that cheese will constipate.

They get their fiber primarily from the muscle tissue and sinew in the
meat. All kinds of fiber there. Yes, pumpkin does work but it shouldn't
be used regularly since dogs are carnivores and not omnivores by nature.

Did you know that until recently Science Diet used peanut hulls in their
dog food? And some companies are considering using feathers as
"fiber". They use whatever is free and a waste product from a human food
product.

Assuming we get through this, I am switching to raw meat
and probably eventually to the raw meat and bone
diet.

If you are taking Chard's advice, do it with a major amount of forethought.
She is no doctor, scientist, researcher or any kind of expert. She
attributes absolutely everything to kibble because she has an agenda. Kibble
doesn't cause diabetes any more than raw meat cures it.

Sharon Too wrote:
Assuming we get through this, I am switching to raw meat
and probably eventually to the raw meat and bone
diet.

If you are taking Chard's advice, do it with a major amount of forethought.
She is no doctor, scientist, researcher or any kind of expert. She
attributes absolutely everything to kibble because she has an agenda. Kibble
doesn't cause diabetes any more than raw meat cures it.

Carbs positively do cause diabetes and kibble is one of the worst as far
as carbs go. Even the diabetes association now supports a low carb diet
for people to control/eliminate diabetes.

You been under a rock or what? I don't know which of you lies more, you
or Melinda.

It's bad enough in people, who are omnivorous and can handle carbs a lot
better. Dogs and cats cannot process carbs, making kibble even worse for
them.

There are some non-raw choices out there for diabetic dogs such as those
found he
http://diabeticdog.typepad.com/
They are grain free and basically try to imitate an actual meat diet but
why go with a higher priced substitute when the real thing is out there
at a savings to you and at less of a price on your pet.

Death is way too high of a price to pay.

Approximately 1 in 400 dogs will develop diabetes mellitus. This number
has risen significantly in recent years. Forty years ago, it was
estimated that only 1 in 2000 dogs had diabetes.

In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Even the diabetes association now supports a low carb diet
for people to control/eliminate diabetes.

Sigh. That does not imply a causal link, nor should it for
anybody with a grade 9 education.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
Even the diabetes association now supports a low carb diet
for people to control/eliminate diabetes.

Sigh. That does not imply a causal link, nor should it for
anybody with a grade 9 education.

Only in your world Melinda.