Janet Boss said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

Oh great. My killfiling him has resulted in him going way
off the deep end and saying something REALLY stupid? Just
great.

I just read it through google and you should, too. And you
should call the cops.

I am so very, very tired of him and his BS.
You'd think that a grown man could get a life, wouldn't
you?

It won't happen.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Nessa" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:54:40 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
lied and wrote:


Well, you said once that you can't killfile me because I am a direct
threat
to your business. But you have your watchdogs who look out for your
interests and they will let you know when I post something that might
cause
people to go elsewhere for their dog training needs. And I think that is
a
very important thing for me to do as a public service, and to save a few
dogs from being tortured and injured or behaviorally screwed up by your
antiquated forceful methods of intimidations and inhumane corrections.
So:


and every time you post your delusional attacks I will counter with my
truths as I know them since I have trained THREE dogs with Janet over
an EIGHT YEAR PERIOD

Oh, boy, some people just keep going back for more abuse. How freaking
loyal of you!


Beware, everyone. Janet Boss runs a business called "Best Friends Dog
Obedience", with the website www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com, and I can
personally attest to the fact that she promotes and encourages dog owners
to purchase her custom-made inferior prong collars with sharp teeth that
can cause injury to a dog, especially when used as she directs by
administering powerful yanks that are enough to lift an 80 lb dog off his
feet.

she offers these collars IF a person desires or NEEDS them. I would
not say they are PROMOTED. I have used one with two of my dogs. One
'graduated' to a martingale collar, but my other dog still pulls so
badly she does better when on the prong collar

So you never tried an anti-pull harness? It is much more humane and very
comfortable, and it costs only $10 at Walmart. But unless your goddess
Janet recommends it, you will continue to rely on forceful corrections with
the prong collar. Have you ever tried positive clicker training? Probably
not. It makes you feel so powerful to yank on an ugly mechanical
contraption rather than earn your dog's trust and respect with gentle
methods.

I'll bet neither of your dogs is as headstrong as Muttley. And you STILL
need special collars to control them? Why do you treat your dogs that way?
Oh, yeah, Janet!


And it could be ANY prong collar but I prefer the custom collars Janet
offers as they are easier to put on and off for walking and training.
My current dog does not require a prong collar and it was never even
discussed as an option for him.

These collars can be used with or without the rubber caps on them. The
teeth are NOT SHARP. they are filed flat not pointed.

Nah, they never saw a file. The ends were left as they were when they were
cut, and then chrome plated over to make them look pretty. Even if filed
flat, that leaves sharp edges. But I had a close look at the collar and I
compared it to the beautifully finished and unbreakable training collar I
bought at Tractor Supply. Every prong was nicely rounded and plated so it
merely pinched, with no sharp edges to cause damage.

I have never in EIGHT years been instructed to administer powerful
yanks that would lift ANY sized dog off it's feet.

Well, you have nice, wimpy, soft dogs like those Janet prefers, and they
will practically pee themselves in submission when you give a tiny tug on a
prong collar.


Also she does not pay attention to students who are obviously
struggling, and instead she gleefully ignores them until their dogs go
crazy and attack other dogs. Then she blames that on the dog's owner for

In 5 months of puppy class, 3 full 8 week sessions, several advanced
sessions, and other experiences with Janet, I have NEVER observed her
to be 'gleeful' over a dog and his or her owner's struggles. I have
never noted her ignoring them.

They were all paying students. She offered her services to me and Muttley
for free, so she felt justified in "punishing" us by ignoring our
struggles. I see that she no longer offers classes for free. Thank Dog!


While I never felt blamed for my dog's bad behavior (or weight
problems) I was held accountable for not doing my homework, or
overfeeding and under exercising my dogs.

Well, Janet does get some things right, especially for a student who
continues to line her pockets with hundreds of dollars of easy money. And
the less effective she is as a trainer, the more you keep coming back! How
convenient! Nice work, if you can get it. Sucker...


not spending more time at home torturing the poor dog (IOW, doing the

we should have spent at least 30 minutes a day working on our
training. Most days we did. We never found this time together
torturous.

One of the exercises the 'sit on it' puts the dog on the leash and
you sit on the leash and ignore the dog.

right now, Hannah on the left of me is sleeping (without a leash)
within touching distance and Harley is sleeping without a leash on my
right slightly behind my chair (a large newf tends to wrap around my
chair)

these dogs no longer require practice to 'settle' at my feet now and
do it automatically.

Muttley always did that automatically. I did not need to make him settle.
Your dogs (and Janet's) are hyperactive and needy and frightened and you
must "train" them to ignore you? How bizarre and cruel!


prescribed homework), and her classes are SO stressful that my dog and I
just HATED to attend.


and here I am looking forward to going back to class again in June
with Harley who is ready to complete class now (he was medically
unable to complete his last class)

So many health issues, so little common sense...


I find class interesting, and fun. I think the socialization for the
dog and my family is very much a good time. YMMV but the attitude
you bring with you will influence your perceptions.

Muttley and I started with a good attitude...

And when I finally got my dog under control so I
could safely get him there, she scowled at me for being late, and then

you were late. there is no excuse. I Know what time class starts. I
know how long it takes me to get there. I allow EXTRA time to make
sure I arrive early enough to settle myself and my dog.

Poop happens. I would expect an instructor to deal with situations like
that in a responsible and professional manner. If she would have told me to
wait until we were ready to learn, or go home, none of this crap would have
happened.


punished me by making me drag my dog around in a chaotic parade of a
dozen
other dogs and owners trying advanced heeling techniques that were
clearly

it was not punishment. it's the exercise the class offers.
it's not chaotic it's a circle
and it's FAR from advanced heeling techniques.

If it is too difficult for the dog to comprehend, then it is advanced. We
were reversing directions and changing pace and expected the dog to stay in
proper position and sit when we stopped. What beyond that constitutes
advanced heeling?


beyond my dog's ability to obey. And when he attacked another dog and she
took her good old time to intervene because she was too busy chatting
with
her "good" students to pay attention, she declared my dog dangerous and
advised euthanasia.

you mean the students that paid her for her services, GOOD people pay
for services rendered.

I would have been willing to pay, and I was prepared to pay for classes at
a local school when Janet offered her services for free. The product should
be the same, whatever the actual price charged. GOOD instructors don't
skimp on their services because they charge a different rate to people who
are seeking to rehome a rescued dog.


I'll tell you who is dangerous: Janet Boss.

I disagree. I think Janet Boss is one of the nicest people I've ever
met and I recommend her to everyone I meet who is seeking a dog
trainer.

Now YOU are dangerous too.


But, hey, I can post whatever I want, and Janet will never read it
because
she has me killfiled. "NyaNyaNya" she says. "I can't hear you". But
anyone
who googles Janet Boss and Best Friends Dog Obedience may find this post

and my rebuttal. Which clearly I am qualified to make as I have had
much more experience working with Janet (as a paying client) then you
ever had as a charity case.

And I thank you for bypassing everyone's killfiles and making my voice of
reason heard by those who would otherwise have missed my words of wisdom
and truth.


and others like it. And I can only hope they do, and seek the services of
a
really good obedience trainer, such as those at Petco and Petsmart, or at

what training do these 'really good' obedience trainers at Petco and
Petsmart have?

They have about six weeks of actual training, which is probably six more
than Janet ever had.


local schools, or any of those who are actually members of the
Association
of Pet Dog Trainers: http://www.apdt.com/po/ts/default.aspx

goodness it appears for $150 dollars anyone can join APDT. I would
imagine that folks who can't get enough business by Word of Mouth
would need that type of advertising.

Yeah, Janet is not even in the Better Business Bureau.


You will note
that Janet is not listed. They probably would not have her, and I'll
leave
it to your judgment why she is not welcome in their esteemed ranks.

I'm betting she did not bother to apply.

Like she didn't "bother" to keep an eye on me and Muttley while she was
conducting classes.

And
here are Certified Pet Dog Trainers: http://ccpdt.org/rstr/index.html.
Where is Janet? Oh yeah, they only list competent trainers who care about
their students and their dogs.

in order to join this organization you must according to them:

"...meet eligibility requirements, candidate trainers must have: at
least 300 hours experience in dog training within the last five years;
a high school diploma or equivalent; and one reference each from a
veterinarian, a client, and a professional colleague."

again it appears this organization is merely a way to generate
business.

It's a way to filter out incompetent and dangerous imposters like Janet.


I'll tell you all you need to know about Janet's methods.

snip some information that is inaccurate in it's interpretations

[unsnip]
Lesson #1: Make sure your dog will ignore you. If he comes to you seeking a
little loving, make him sit or lie down and look away for a half hour.
Scold him every time he looks at you and thinks about disturbing you. This
is YOUR time to drink your coffee and read the paper. Don't allow your poor
needy dog to bother you. Show him "Who's the Boss"!

Lesson #2: Whatever you want your dog to do, never give him a treat or
allow him time to settle down and pay attention to you. Oh, wait, we
already trained him NOT to pay attention. Well, that's OK. Put a spikey
prong collar on him and yank it when you want him to do something. If he
does not want to lie DOWN, step on his leash and force him into the
position. Just make sure it's a little, frightened dog so he can't knock
you over and get loose.

Lesson #3: After two weeks your dog MUST be able to heel at your left side
and not be distracted by other dogs, people, cats, smells, and new things.
If he wanders off, yank him off his feet and drag him into position. Kick
him if you feel like it. It's all about exerting your superior will on a
dumb animal. You will even feel better and more powerful by doing this.


however things Janet taught me include:

1. my dogs are not humans and they have to do what I tell them to do,
even if it means I must treat them with cruelty and make them fearful of
harsh physical "corrections"...

2. my dogs are fed when I want to feed them and are fed what I deem
appropriate amounts of appropriate food.
because I am their lord and master and they bloody well better appreciate
it!

3. my dogs have nice house manners OFF means OFF, down means down,
sit means sit stay means stay and 'mommy has to go to work' means get
in your crate....
even though well-trained dogs who are not taught to be fearful and insecure
may be given the run of the house and will be happily wagging their tails
at the door when you return. How long have you had your dogs?

4. walks with my dogs are my responsibility and are not optional they are
mandatory
because your dogs are hyperactive and will go nuts if you don't, and Janet
tells you so...

5. practice makes perfect (so practice practice practice)
even if what you are practicing is wrong and harmful.

6 my dogs are MY responsibility. they behave in a manner I allow and
have taught them to behave.
even to the point where they are not allowed to be just dogs, because it is
cool to exert dominance over dumb animals

7. a good trainer trains the humans that own the dog to train the dog.
but a poor trainer who cannot convince the human that their way is the only
way resorts to unprofessional conduct that can be dangerous

Nessa
--
trying to be the best human she can,
and failing miserably as usual...

Paul and Muttley

On Apr 29, 12:42*am, "Paul E. Schoen" again lied
when he wrote:

Sure. Bring it on. Everything I have said is the absolute truth, and I'm
sure it will be fun to take it to court and maybe get the media involved.

it is not the truth. the truth can be proven. you can't prove your
allegations.
they are falsehoods based on your inability to accept your failure


And there are a lot of positive dog trainers and fans of more modern,
scientific, and gentle methods who would come to my defense,

define a lot of people who would come to your defense. would that be
5 trainers?
ten trainers? maybe 25 trainers?

How many clients besides me do you think would be willing to testify
for Janet?
more than likely ten times the number of your witnesses.


and all that
negative publicity will really ruin Janet's business. So go ahead. I would
love to see Janet squirm her fat butt on the witness chair. Maybe we will
call Muttley into court to testify.

1. it really would not be negative publicity you know. it would turn
out to be positive for Janet.
How do you think ONE disgruntled, dissatisfied charity case vs.
multiple paying clients with happy outcomes and positive experiences
looks?



I paid for the dog's medical
bills as well as those of the client for injuries she received from HER OWN
dog.

you should have paid the medical expenses. it was YOUR DOG that
caused the problems.



. Here is my sincere post of concern
(Paul wrote)

I'm sorry to hear that all your dogs have serious illnesses. It is
especially disturbing that your young pup Marcie is also ill. Could
there
be a common factor in the environment causing some of this?


funny i did not see it as sincere at all. I found it rather offensive
and disingenuous.
Maybe it's the formal stilted way you write trying to appear connected
and appropriate.



So, I feel that I am offering a public service by continuing to report the
true facts of my experiences with my gentle dog
you are spewing forth your interpretation of incidents. they are not
true facts.
and based on prior posts I would not deem your dog gentle in any way
shape or form


in the hands of a brutal
and highly UNprofessional dog trainer.

Janet is NOT brutal she's far from unprofessional.
she is firm.
she is fun, fair and outgoing. she is approachable.



I dare any of you to cite anything I
have said (except possibly in jest) that is provably untrue. Go back and
read my post.

I am sure when we go to court it will all be read. and disected.

I have no doubt that your disordered thinking and interpretations are
neurobiochemical in nature.
I have no doubt that what you interpret as jesting would be
interpreted by professionals as something completely different.
and i have no doubt that you see nothing wrong with your disordered
interpretations of interactions among folks who are neurotypical.



It is my opinion, based on undeniable evidence, that Janet (or her
assistant) recommended her prong collar instead of the better-made one that
I had bought at Tractor Supply and brought to her class.

we all know about opinions.
good luck proving recommendations


She also rejected
the Halti which may have been better, but would not have been as much fun
for her to demonstrate. All I wanted was to be able to walk my dog on a
loose leash, and a $10 anti-pull harness took care of that without any of
the brutality that was taught in class.

there is control and there is training.
halti's control they don't train.
i've never had to be brutal with my dogs. and i was never taught
anything but appropriate correction for mine.
again it's interpretation at work here.

i contend however that ONE man's interpretation vs many other people's
totally different interpretations will be seen for exactly what it is.


I further stated my opinion that she ignored me and Muttley to the point of
negligence and endangerment of other students.

again with the opinion.


How long did it take for her
to see Muttley go after another dog and cause injury, while she and her
instructors were "busy" handing out homework and chatting, and I was trying
to place my dog into a "down" as instructed. Just the facts, ma'am.

interesting. by the time we get to homework and chatting class is
essentially OVER.
if you were attempting to 'down your dog' it was on your time buster.



Then, as a public service, I recommended that people first look for dog
trainers with actual credentials and formal training, which even Petsmart
and Petco trainers must obtain. I was about to enlist the help of a dog
trainer at one of the local schools when Janet offered her classes for
free. I should have known that "you get what you pay for", yet her classes
cost me $500 after we were kicked out.

ANYONE can be a trainer at petsmart and Petco.
if you went to a Petsmart and had a trainer and then I wanted the same
trainer and he/she was not there, what would I do? I'd get whatever
trainer they had.

the fact that you consider Petsmart and Petco appropriate dog training
arenas is disturbing to me.


i have more...

On Apr 29, 1:01*am, Rocky wrote:
Janet Boss said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

Oh great. *My killfiling him has resulted in him going way
off the deep end and saying something REALLY stupid? *Just
great.

I just read it through google and you should, too. *And you
should call the cops.

I am so very, very tired of him and his BS.
You'd think that a grown man could get a life, wouldn't
you?

It won't happen.


sadly this is his life.

his behaviors and interpretations screams Aspergers at me...

On Apr 29, 1:45*am, "Paul E. Schoen" yet again lied
when he wrote:

"Nessa" wrote in message


On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:54:40 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
lied and wrote:


and every time you post your delusional attacks I will counter with my
truths as I know them since I have trained THREE dogs with Janet over
an EIGHT YEAR PERIOD

Oh, boy, some people just keep going back for more abuse. How freaking
loyal of you!



I don't see it as abuse. I offer my length of time working with Janet
Boss as a testimony to her ability.



she offers these collars IF a person desires or NEEDS them. *I would
not say they are PROMOTED. *I have used one with two of my dogs. *One
'graduated' to a martingale collar, but my other dog still pulls so
badly she does better when on the prong collar

So you never tried an anti-pull harness?

I never said I never tried one. are you asking?
we've tried gentle leaders, haltis and harnesses.
TRIED being the operative word.


It is much more humane and very
comfortable,

NOT according to Hannah.
Hannah HATES anything but her current set up. she will cry and paw at
the GL.
she will not stand still to have it put on.

Yet when she sees her current leash and collars she immediately sits
to have it put on.
must hurt her terribly.

and it costs only $10 at Walmart. But unless your goddess
Janet recommends it, you will continue to rely on forceful corrections with
the prong collar.

Janet is not my Goddess, i'm Jewish.
I don't use forceful corrections on either of my current dogs and I
did NOT on Bagel either.
I never have.
Hannah's collar is self-correcting. She chooses NOT to pull when
wearing it.

Have you ever tried positive clicker training? Probably
not. It makes you feel so powerful to yank on an ugly mechanical
contraption rather than earn your dog's trust and respect with gentle
methods.

I don't have the reflexes necessary to do proper clicker training and
if done improperly it's useless.

I don't yank my dogs. I never have. and I have never needed to.
Hannah's collar is not mechanical as it has no moving parts [save for
the clasp] and it's a lovely shade of purple

as for my dogs trusting me, have you met me? Have you met my dogs?
don't speak of what you do not know.


I'll bet neither of your dogs is as headstrong as Muttley. And you STILL
need special collars to control them? Why do you treat your dogs that way?
Oh, yeah, Janet!

oh boy... you never met Bagel. I hate to admit it but he would have
destroyed Muttley.
In a New York Minute.
and I have witnesses to his stubborn headstrong behavior.
Sadly Bagel has gone to the bridge but before he left us he had not
worn a prong collar for YEARS.
It was used for TRAINING, once he was trained he never needed anything
but a soft collar.
a flat buckle collar would have worked just fine for him.

As for Hannah and her prong collar, had I worked with her more, she'd
have better leash manners.
Hannah LOVES to pull. she pulls Harley around the house now (they
play tug, she wins and dusts the floor with him)


When she sees her prong collar she knows it's walking time (and hence
practice of her skills time) and is very happy.
she has other collars and leashes that she also wears.


my dogs probably have more collars and leashes than you have pants and
shirts.


And it could be ANY prong collar but I prefer the custom collars Janet
offers as they are easier to put on and off for walking and training.
My current dog does not require a prong collar and it was never even
discussed as an option for him.

These collars can be used with or without the rubber caps on them. The
teeth are NOT SHARP. *they are filed flat not pointed.

Nah, they never saw a file. The ends were left as they were when they were
cut, and then chrome plated over to make them look pretty. Even if filed
flat, that leaves sharp edges. But I had a close look at the collar and I
compared it to the beautifully finished and unbreakable training collar I
bought at Tractor Supply. Every prong was nicely rounded and plated so it
merely pinched, with no sharp edges to cause damage.

I have never had a prong collar purchased from Janet, damage my dogs.
Hannah gets a rash from her TAGS that's how sensitive her skin is, but
the prong collar has never left so much as a mark on her.



I have never in EIGHT years been instructed to administer powerful
yanks that would lift ANY sized dog off it's feet.

Well, you have nice, wimpy, soft dogs like those Janet prefers, and they
will practically pee themselves in submission when you give a tiny tug on a
prong collar.

and you know this how?
how do you know my dogs are soft and wimpy?
you've met them?
you've seen them?
Bagel was NOT soft and wimpy, he was NOT submissive in any way shape
or form.
Bagel was a 'talk to the paw' kind of dog. Bagel did things on his
terms and his terms only.

Hannah soft and wimpy? I THINK NOT.... but then you've never met
her.

Harley is still considered a rescue in progress and doing quite well
thank you.


In 5 months of puppy class, *3 full 8 week sessions, several advanced
sessions, and other experiences with Janet, I have NEVER observed her
to be 'gleeful' over a dog and his or her owner's struggles. * *I have
never noted her ignoring them.

They were all paying students. She offered her services to me and Muttley
for free, so she felt justified in "punishing" us by ignoring our
struggles. I see that she no longer offers classes for free. Thank Dog!

interesting, when we go in June we are not writing a check.
Although I paid for Harley's class last fall, we did not finish, (due
to his illness)
I offered to pay for the June session and Janet would not hear of it.
Clearly she's not in this business for the money. Or I would be made
to pay again.



While I never felt blamed for my dog's bad behavior (or weight
problems) I was held accountable for not doing my homework, or
overfeeding and under exercising my dogs.

Well, Janet does get some things right, especially for a student who
continues to line her pockets with hundreds of dollars of easy money. And
the less effective she is as a trainer, the more you keep coming back! How
convenient! Nice work, if you can get it. Sucker...

except I don't pay for repeat classes with the same dog. hmmmm....
not sure how Janet makes money on me....
not sure how i give her HUNDREDS of dollars.....

truthfully I know how she teaches. I have all the papers and
instructions. I do not NEED to go to class.
I also have access to Janet in other ways other than class. (yes I
admit to liking her as a friend as well as my dog trainer)
and yet I keep going back to class.
WHY? because it's good for me to have the practice. and it's good
for the dog to have the formal socialization.

and i admit it's good for ME to have the formal socialization. As an
ADHDer I tend to not always get the right social cues,
class helps me with that. at least as far as interaction with the dog
goes.



right now, Hannah on the left of me is sleeping (without a leash)
within touching distance *and Harley is sleeping without a leash on my
right slightly behind my chair (a large newf tends to wrap around my
chair)

these dogs no longer require practice to 'settle' at my feet now and
do it automatically.

Muttley always did that automatically. I did not need to make him settle.
Your dogs (and Janet's) are hyperactive and needy and frightened and you
must "train" them to ignore you? How bizarre and cruel!

while my dogs do it automatically at home, they also do it
automatically at the vet
or any other public location.
Not sure why folks are always so amazed when I walk in with two large
dogs, sit down and say "settle"
and they lay down and watch the world go by.....

oh as for "hyperactive" and "needy" and "frightened"... you know this
HOW?

HAVE YOU MET MY DOGS????

Hannah is not needy or frightened.
Harley is not hyperactive. or needy.

You speak of what you know not.....



I find class interesting, and fun. *I think the socialization for the
dog and my family is very much a good time. * YMMV but the attitude
you bring with you will influence your perceptions.

Muttley and I started with a good attitude...

not according to your prior usenet posts.
don't make me find them. it's bad enough i have to answer you now...



And when I finally got my dog under control so I
could safely get him there, she scowled at me for being late, and then

you were late. *there is no excuse. *I Know what time class starts. *I
know how long it takes me to get there. *I allow EXTRA time to make
sure I arrive early enough to settle myself and my dog.

Poop happens. I would expect an instructor to deal with situations like
that in a responsible and professional manner. If she would have told me to
wait until we were ready to learn, or go home, none of this crap would have
happened.

ya know you give Janet an awful lot of power.

if i'm not ready I don't do something.

as for being late, once in a while it happens.
YOU were consistently late.




it was not punishment. *it's the exercise the class offers.
it's not chaotic it's a circle
and it's FAR from advanced heeling techniques.

If it is too difficult for the dog to comprehend, then it is advanced.

no, if it's too difficult for the dog to comprehend, then the dog is
not practicing.
the dog does not have to comprehend, the human does.
the dog is just walking under control.


We
were reversing directions and changing pace and expected the dog to stay in
proper position and sit when we stopped. What beyond that constitutes
advanced heeling?

what about sit when not moving is so difficult
what about keeping pace with the human is so difficult
what about following your human in the direction they go is so damn
difficult.

the dog is on a leash with a corrective collar..... ADVANCED heeling
is what folks I admire do...
they do it without a collar or leash....




you mean the students that paid her for her services, *GOOD people pay
for services rendered.

I would have been willing to pay, and I was prepared to pay for classes at
a local school when Janet offered her services for free. The product should
be the same, whatever the actual price charged. GOOD instructors don't
skimp on their services because they charge a different rate to people who
are seeking to rehome a rescued dog.


and I doubt that she did.
I get help and support from Janet that is above and beyond class
rates.
it's inherent in her personality to help and support people.



I'll tell you who is dangerous: Janet Boss.

I disagree. *I think Janet Boss is one of the nicest people I've ever
met and I recommend her to everyone I meet who is seeking a dog
trainer.

Now YOU are dangerous too.

only to your libelous spew.




what training do these 'really good' obedience trainers at Petco and
Petsmart have?

They have about six weeks of actual training, which is probably six more
than Janet ever had.

so I go to petsmart and I sign up for dog training and I get some high
school kid who just graduated some 6 week course who has never
actually owned or trained a dog before and this person is going to be
a better trainer than Janet with all of her years of experience owing
and training dogs.




Yeah, Janet is not even in the Better Business Bureau.

just means no one has filed any complaints against her.



however things Janet taught me include:

1. my dogs are not humans and they have to do what I tell them to do,

even if it means I must treat them with cruelty and make them fearful of
harsh physical "corrections"...

my dogs are not treated with cruelty nor are they made fearful of
harsh physcial corrections.


2. my dogs are fed when I want to feed them and are fed what I deem
appropriate amounts of appropriate food.

because I am their lord and master and they bloody well better appreciate
it!

because i am their owner and it' is my responsibility to care for them
properly.



3. my dogs have nice house manners *OFF means OFF, down means down,
sit means sit stay means stay and 'mommy has to go to work' means get
in your crate....

even though well-trained dogs who are not taught to be fearful and insecure
may be given the run of the house and will be happily wagging their tails
at the door when you return. How long have you had your dogs?

my dogs are well trained they are not fearful or insecure
they happily wag their tails when I return. I open the crate doors and
they wait for their ok to leave their crates.
these dogs are NOT forced into their crates, they go to their crates
by choice.
even when we are home with them i often find them in their crates by
their choice.

I have had hannah for seven years. she is in the crate for her
protection due to her seizures.
I do not want her falling off the couch when I am not home.
Harley I have had nearly 7 months. He prefers the crate because he
feels safer there.



4. walks with my dogs are my responsibility and are not optional they are
mandatory

because your dogs are hyperactive and will go nuts if you don't, and Janet
tells you so...

my dogs are not hyperactive, they don't mind missing their walks and
actually Janet doesn't tell me to walk them.
I do believe however that (your beloved) Victoria Stillwell mandates
long daily walks.....



5. practice makes perfect (so practice practice practice)

even if what you are practicing is wrong and harmful.

i do not practice harmful or wrong things with my dogs. they are never
tethered
nor are they left unsupervised or allowed to roam without me.


6 my dogs are MY responsibility. *they behave in a manner I allow and
have taught them to behave.

even to the point where they are not allowed to be just dogs, because it is
cool to exert dominance over dumb animals

they are far from dumb.
they are also just dogs.

Tara Green wrote:
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
"Tara Green" wrote in message
...
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
"elegy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:25:12 -0400, chardonnay9
wrote:

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
chardonnay9 wrote:
That's real sad.
You should be using an adverb there, not an adjective.
"That's really sad."
And you should stop sleeping with your father.
and that right there is the end for me.

because bullshit comments like that will never ever ever be anything
near acceptable.
It's not nearly so bad as "Duh Bossy Bimbo" calling people
"assholes" for no other reason than that she doesn't like them and
can't control them.
Accusing someone of having sex with their own father is the same to
you as just calling someone an asshole?

Do you have no perspective AT ALL?

You're either joking or lying just to try and force a point.

Neither is worthy if respect in this context.

Getting bored, Tara? Who accused anyone of incest? Do you sleep with
your dogs? Have you stopped engaging in bestiality? Does your dog wear
a condom or pajamas?

Really, you should just lighten up and learn to take a joke,

Tell one that's funny and not a passive-aggressive jab and I can take
LOTS of jokes.

Tara, I didn't see you complaining when Melinda flamed me over and over
again. I guess you really don't mind what I said, it's just that I said it.



and not look for excuses to feel offended, especially on someone
else's behalf.

Dude, face it....you're history here has made it nearly impossible for
anyone not to read offense into your words.

He's just one of many who challenge the views here and catches hell for
it. From what I've read he really did get the shaft with Janet's
training sessions. When people take dog training classes it's not just
the dog that gets trained. The owners are also taught how to teach their
pets. Janet failed at that pretty much and Paul and Muttley got the blame.

It seems that nobody is allowed to challenge the views of the "regulars"
here. Melinda has been flaming me over and over and over again, I shoot
back with one single comment and I'm the offensive one?

Paleeeease!


You have managed to create that from scratch. Most of us really liked
you and wanted to help you for quite some time when you first came.
Diddy was even trying....dare I say struggling....with trying to like
you until recently.

So reflect for a second and ponder whether or not you *may* have had a
teeeeny little bit to do with jow people perceive you and react to you.

Although frankly I think that's asking more than you could ever do.

You obviously have way too much free time on your hands, and you
should scrub them well with lye soap and hot water. Wash your mouth
out with it as well; it might do wonders for your halitosis. And while
you're at it, you should try to get rid of those rings around Uranus!

Shove it Paul. You're an ass who has alienated every single person he
has had extended contact with. The problem may just be you.

But it's not. It's you.

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article ,
Tara Green wrote:
Dude, face it....you're history here has made
it nearly impossible for anyone not to read
offense into your words.

And some stuff is just offensive.

Problem is, most of the offensive stuff is from you Melinda!

Janet Boss wrote:

Only in the front and they aren't out there. I've checked every plant
of every kind in the backyard already. Per normal, none have been
disturbed at all. Thanks for the thought though.

I would suspect mushrooms. They come up very fast and if the dogs ate
them, you would have no trace. Not that this is helpful at all... I'm
so glad everyone is on the mend.

chardonnay9 wrote:

But it's not. It's you.

thanks for adding such insight and humor to the conversation. Oh, wait.

FurPaw wrote:
Janet Boss wrote:
In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

I wish people would just stop replying to Paul.

Yes. I took Matt's advice and finally killfiled Paul. At least I
don't see every piece of BS he writes, only that which someone quotes,
and I can skip over that pretty easily.

Yes, me too. However, with such a set of well-established behaviors
(over a lifetime), and one that's perversely maintained by negative
attention, given intermittently, I think it's going to take a long time
for the behaviors to extinguish. One reinforcement of these behaviors,
one reply, and it's back to square one.

FurPaw


If that were true everyone on here would have killfiled Melinda by now.