Tuck has participated this week in a Search and Rescue Seminar, thus
expanding his exposure to new skills.

We have practiced many tracking/trailing scenarios, and he's done quite
well. His point of weakness is that he needs stronger victim loyalty. He
indicates articles strongly. But his identification of his victims are to
walk up to them and stop, simply looking at them. In a crowd of people, a
better indication is warranted.

Other than that, he was exposed to a rubble pile, and identified victims
quickly, and readily, and was very sure footed as he climbed the pile.

We Searched a faux Iraqi Village and market place at Muskatatuck and he
located subjects in two separate building searches. He searched the
grounds, indicated the buildings, and once permitted access, went directly
to the rooms, and hiding locations (one was in a concealed spot under the
floor, the other in the attic) without ceremony, or hesitation. He had
never done a building search before, so I was delighted.

He excelled at wilderness search techniques. He was the first to find his
victim in a rabbit run scenario. And was honest and true to his track in
each scenario with scent provided, or finding the location of point last
scene, and eliminating subjects from the search scene.

He accomplished everything we asked him to do efficiently and without
error.

He had no problems with multiple terrain changes.

But unfortunately, I removed him from training last night. There was a dog
that was dog aggressive and people aggressive. The handler teaches
shutzhund dogs and prey drive/bite work.

She handled a 130 pound bloodhound that was dog/people aggressive. She was
inept at handling the dog, and repeatedly pulled a very nice working dog
off it's track to failure. She never followed directions, and while at
Camp Atterbury, when into a live fire zone after being told NOT to. We were
given perimeters where we were allowed to be, and told that we were
absolutely NOT allowed to go there, because we had a high risk of being
killed. As troops were training to deploy to Afghanistan at the time, and
the surrounding area resonated with high powered artillery explosions, it
was evident that we did NOT want to go there!

Yet, she and her dog got lost in the forbidden zone. The instructors had
to call in and have the army halt fire, while we conducted a search of this
idiot handler.

She never followed instructions. And she released her dog, and he attacked
Tuck. (ANY of these offenses were cause for dismissal!)

The following day, This same dog somehow got loose, and attacked Tuck
AGAIN. Again, Tuck did not respond, and stood passively and motionless
while I extracted the attacking dog from him.

Finally on Friday, I was out in the field doing a tracking exercise, when a
scream of "LOOSE DOG!" rang out, and sure enough, there was this same
bloodhound running streaking across the field on a dead run towards Tuck.

I turned Tuck loose and intercepted the dog. He grabbed Tuck by the tail,
and I wrestled it off, biting it, kicking it and finally sitting on it,
beating it in the head, until someone came to relieve me and take the dog.

Tuck was non-plussed and acted as if this was an everyday occurrence and no
big deal. He was always a gentleman, well mannered, and took everything in
stride.

Last night, I was so upset, I just quit, and brought him home. Many dogs
become aggressive after being attacked. Tuck us not, and I cherish those
qualities. As much as we were getting out of that training, I decided
since they did not throw the dangerous dog and handler out, I was not going
to put my dog at risk for yet another day and another attack. Taking care
of my dog's safety was my priority. I was greatly disappointed to miss out
on the rest of the training. Today was helicopter training day. I am
thinking of what I am missing and really wanted to do, while I sit at home
with my very good dog, who conducted himself perfectly.

When I asked them about Bite dogs and Search and Rescue suitability, I was
told, Bite dogs are acceptable as long as they have a good "OUT" (Meaning
they spit their victim out as soon as they are told to)

I was horrified that biting a victim was considered acceptable. That fact
blew my mind worse than the trauma that Tuck had already endured this week.

The training and facilities were incredible. SOME of the instructors were
a well of information. It was a fantastic experience.

I was very disappointed in the management. Mad as %$#% at a certain
handler, and relieved to be home safe with Tuck, but wishing I was still
there for what I missed.

diddy wrote:

I was horrified that biting a victim was considered acceptable. That fact
blew my mind worse than the trauma that Tuck had already endured this week.

The training and facilities were incredible. SOME of the instructors were
a well of information. It was a fantastic experience.

I was very disappointed in the management. Mad as %$#% at a certain
handler, and relieved to be home safe with Tuck, but wishing I was still
there for what I missed.

Wow, Diddy, what a story! It's incredible to me that they didn't
kick that idiot handler out for disrupting the army training, and
if not then, for allowing her dog to attack Tuck ONCE, never mind
3 times.

Tuck is just amazing. I hope you can find another SAR training
outfit that has more control over its participants.

FurPaw

--
Don't believe everything that you think.

To reply, unleash the dog.

diddy wrote:

But unfortunately, I removed him from training last night. There was a dog
that was dog aggressive and people aggressive. The handler teaches
shutzhund dogs and prey drive/bite work.

That handler has no business teaching basic
puppy classes, let alone Schutzhund.

Wow. I can't believe I'm about to say this
(get ready ;-) but you were more patient
wbout this than I would have been.

I'd have been up in the faces of whoever was
in charge until this incompetent fool was
removed from the premises. Given the cost and
travel involved, plus the fact that being
ejected may have given this handler half a
clue, I'd have been hard pressed to
relinquish my position.

But given how much psychic danger Tuck was in
being constantly pummeled by this oafish dog,
I can totally understand why you made the
choice you did.

I hope you follow up with a strongly worded
letter to the people who put this seminar
together. That's grounds for a lawsuit if
they're that cavalier with the safety of
people's trained SAR dogs.

Tara Green spoke these words of wisdom in
:

diddy wrote:

But unfortunately, I removed him from training last night. There was a
dog that was dog aggressive and people aggressive. The handler teaches
shutzhund dogs and prey drive/bite work.

That handler has no business teaching basic
puppy classes, let alone Schutzhund.

Wow. I can't believe I'm about to say this
(get ready ;-) but you were more patient
wbout this than I would have been.

I'd have been up in the faces of whoever was
in charge until this incompetent fool was
removed from the premises.

I was. I used the "F" word to one of the instructors and refused to work
with her. When she was assigned team leader (because they refused to put
her and her dog in the field) She was such an idiot that search team
members all had radio failure until it got convenient to have them start
working again.

The instructors were all laughing about the mass radio failures. And not
surprised when they started working at convenience.

But given how much psychic danger Tuck was in
being constantly pummeled by this oafish dog,
I can totally understand why you made the
choice you did.

I have felt both good and bad about my decision to pull him. GOOD for him,
and bad about what we missed.

I hope you follow up with a strongly worded
letter to the people who put this seminar
together. That's grounds for a lawsuit if
they're that cavalier with the safety of
people's trained SAR dogs.

Oh, I have.. trust me.

Tara Green spoke these words of wisdom in
:

diddy wrote:

But unfortunately, I removed him from training last night. There was a
dog that was dog aggressive and people aggressive. The handler teaches
shutzhund dogs and prey drive/bite work.

That handler has no business teaching basic
puppy classes, let alone Schutzhund.

Wow. I can't believe I'm about to say this
(get ready ;-) but you were more patient
wbout this than I would have been.


Well.. I wasn't. I gave that dog a good A$$W000ping.
When We took training, they took away all of our guns.
And when that dog was streaking across that field, beaconing in on my dog.
I was furious. He was the recipient of my wrath when he arrived. I still
had troubles wrangling him, as he got a chunk out of Tuck's tail.
And all the time I saw him coming, I'm cursing at them, because they took
my gun. I would have killed that dog.
When Tuck finished his track uneventfully, I was so angry I couldn't speak.
Because if I did, I'd have been swinging. I dropped the F-word before we
went out and instructed them to not allow that woman anywhere near me. I
would NOT work with her. And shortly after.. here comes her dog streaking
across the field. I did not see her again. I'd probably killed her. Which
was another reason I HAD to leave. I didn't dare risk a confrontation.

"diddy" none wrote in message
. ..
Tara Green spoke these words of wisdom in
:

diddy wrote:

But unfortunately, I removed him from training last night. There was a
dog that was dog aggressive and people aggressive. The handler teaches
shutzhund dogs and prey drive/bite work.

That handler has no business teaching basic
puppy classes, let alone Schutzhund.

Wow. I can't believe I'm about to say this
(get ready ;-) but you were more patient
wbout this than I would have been.


Well.. I wasn't. I gave that dog a good A$$W000ping.
When We took training, they took away all of our guns.
And when that dog was streaking across that field, beaconing in on my
dog.
I was furious. He was the recipient of my wrath when he arrived. I still
had troubles wrangling him, as he got a chunk out of Tuck's tail.
And all the time I saw him coming, I'm cursing at them, because they took
my gun. I would have killed that dog.
When Tuck finished his track uneventfully, I was so angry I couldn't
speak.
Because if I did, I'd have been swinging. I dropped the F-word before we
went out and instructed them to not allow that woman anywhere near me. I
would NOT work with her. And shortly after.. here comes her dog
streaking
across the field. I did not see her again. I'd probably killed her. Which
was another reason I HAD to leave. I didn't dare risk a confrontation.

I am truly sorry to hear about your experiences. That out-of-control hound
did more damage in one day than Muttley ever did in his lifetime. And I
always have taken special precautions (although perhaps not quite enough)
to reduce the chances of anything as serious as his first incident. It also
brings to mind the case of my neighbor's little Papillon, bug, being
attacked and killed while they were walking a trail nearby in Loch Raven.
And it also caused me to remember my horror when my gentle little spaniel,
Blackie, was attacked and seriously injured by a much larger, off-leash dog
who could not even be controlled by his owner, and I would have killed it
if I had anything larger than the little penknife I used to stab it in the
neck. I can understand them taking your guns, but perhaps if you had a
hunting knife or survival knife, you might have justifiable put this dog
out of everyone's misery.

Your story started out so positively, and then it was such a crushing blow
to hear how your experience was ruined by a totally irresponsible owner and
a frankly dangerous dog. When Muttley went after other dogs, I was able to
pull him off instantly and he did not seem to be in a frenzy to keep at the
attack. Of course, that was me, with my dog, and not someone else's. I am
still trying to determine why he seems to have a problem with young male
black Labs, but that seems to be the common denominator. But it could also
have been that the other dogs were too submissive, as Tuck may be, and if
the other dog has a "bully" mentality, it may fuel the attack even more. I
don't like the possible fact that my dog may be a bully, but I live with it
and manage it.

I certainly am glad that Tuck was not seriously injured, as "Mr Snappy
Grabby" is one of my favorites. I hope, at least, you demanded that this
woman compensate you for any vet treatment, even precautionary, and full
coverage of any fees you may have had to pay for the course which you were
unable to complete. I am also shocked that a SAR dog is actually allowed to
"Bite" a victim. Is that an actual bite, and not just a soft "mouth"? That
is absurd and dangerous. A dog like that might become excited by the smell
of blood and go into a frenzy. My neighbor was even concerned when I
brought Muttley to Bug's gravesite when he was ready to put him into the
ground, as he was concerned that he would "smell the blood". I would hope
that SAR dogs would be tested for that and trained, or have the innate
dispositions, not to react in a bad way.

Paul and Muttley

diddy wrote:


When I asked them about Bite dogs and Search and Rescue suitability, I was
told, Bite dogs are acceptable as long as they have a good "OUT" (Meaning
they spit their victim out as soon as they are told to)

The ability to out on command means far more than "spit victim out as
soon as told." Out means to cease and desist, whether before or after a
bite.

Many SAR dogs have at least some schutzhund training. Schutzhund
training does NOT make a dog automatically bite anybody they encounter!
Dogs are pretty smart and most know there's a big difference between a
rubble pile and a schutzhund field. Further, most schutzhund dogs have
incredible obedience skills and very stable temperaments.

I'm sorry you had to deal with an idiot who should have been dismissed
from the training center the first day. I'm sorry you were dealing with
a training center so incompetent that they did not dismiss that dog. But
do not misrepresent schutzhund or [sic] "bite dogs." (hint, that is not
a term used by any schutzhund club or law enforcement agency I know of).

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message
news:xH8Ll.681741$yE1.562094@attbi_s21...
diddy wrote:


When I asked them about Bite dogs and Search and Rescue suitability, I
was told, Bite dogs are acceptable as long as they have a good "OUT"
(Meaning they spit their victim out as soon as they are told to)

The ability to out on command means far more than "spit victim out as
soon as told." Out means to cease and desist, whether before or after a
bite.

Many SAR dogs have at least some schutzhund training. Schutzhund training
does NOT make a dog automatically bite anybody they encounter! Dogs are
pretty smart and most know there's a big difference between a rubble pile
and a schutzhund field. Further, most schutzhund dogs have incredible
obedience skills and very stable temperaments.

I'm sorry you had to deal with an idiot who should have been dismissed
from the training center the first day. I'm sorry you were dealing with a
training center so incompetent that they did not dismiss that dog. But do
not misrepresent schutzhund or [sic] "bite dogs." (hint, that is not a
term used by any schutzhund club or law enforcement agency I know of).

There are the terms bitework and bite training, so "bite dogs" is not so
far off the mark:
http://leerburg.com/drives.htm
http://www.servicek9.com/bitework.htm

There is a search engine called:
http://www.bytedog.com/ (and ByteHound for advanced searches)

And a movie called:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_Bite_Dog

I first heard the term bitework when I contacted the Belgian Malinois
rescue about a dog named Rambo, and the question was asked if he had had
any bitework.

Paul and Muttley