"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
zutroi wrote:
i'm not saying that release is the right answer for you and Khan, but
there needs to be some sense to your actions.

I am not sure there is any kind of Usenet post I hate more
than ones suggesting it's time to euthanize a dog the poster
has never seen and knows nothing about. It's really beyond
ass-y.

And here we have miss potty mouth welcoming another newcomer with her kind
words. You just gotta bitch-slap every new poster into some sort of
submission, or until they get out of your private hen-party. I hope you are
feeling better soon...

Paul and Muttley

On May 5, 6:28*am, (Melinda Shore) wrote:
In article ,

zutroi wrote:
i'm not saying that release is the right answer for you and Khan, but
there needs to be some sense to your actions.

I am not sure there is any kind of Usenet post I hate more
than ones suggesting it's time to euthanize a dog the poster
has never seen and knows nothing about. *It's really beyond
ass-y.
--
* * *Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

* * * Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

especially since according to Google it's their first post ever and
they hang out in the 'grand theft auto' news group...

there were folks who said I should not end bagel's suffering that it
was selfish of me to euth. him. they didn't know my dog. they didn't
see what I saw...

it's a VERY PERSONAL decision. I have friends who just had their dog
euth. a few weeks back. A corgi. about 14. with severe DM... he
was in a wheelchair for about a year. it's more than I would have
done but they were not ready to let go...

the timing for something so painful has to be right for the owner and
the dog.... an owner will know... NO ONE ELSE can make that
choice.... AND I think that folks that try to guilt you into doing it
or make you feel guilty for doing it are out of line.

Nessa wrote:

the timing for something so painful has to be right for the owner and
the dog.... an owner will know... NO ONE ELSE can make that
choice.... AND I think that folks that try to guilt you into doing it
or make you feel guilty for doing it are out of line.

I agree, with one slight caveat, not at all intended to relate directly
to Khan or any individual dog owned by any poster here. It would be my
wish that the owners first think about the dog's quality of life, before
they think of how devastated they will be without the dog. Unfortunately
I do see, in person, dogs who are clearly in terrible pain and not going
to get better. It's a horrible decision for all but I do hate to see
dogs suffering tremendously because the owner doesn't want to let go.

If it makes me judgmental then I guess I sometimes am. Many years ago I
had a dog who had a liver shunt and also got histoplasmosis. This was
before shunts were thought treatable. I dragged that dog through
absolute hell for well over a year. She was a walking skeleton with a
distended belly that I'd get the ascites drained out of every week or
so. I just could NOT let her go. She ended up dying horribly while I was
on a trip. It was a life-changing event for me. Never, ever again will I
subject a dog to that kind of cruelty for my own selfish need to hold
onto it. Ever. It is my wish that no one else has to learn that lesson
the way I had to. For all other dogs I've had since that one dog, I've
made sure each day had quality, and when the quality of life was lost
for the dog without hope of recovery, I let them go.

In article JvXLl.89118$DP1.27805@attbi_s22,
Robin Nuttall wrote:
I agree, with one slight caveat, not at all intended to relate directly
to Khan or any individual dog owned by any poster here. It would be my
wish that the owners first think about the dog's quality of life, before
they think of how devastated they will be without the dog.

Sure, absolutely. But there are so many variables that go
into that and it annoys the hell out of me that someone
would go ahead and make that kind of judgment about a dog
they don't know owned by a human they don't know. It's
possible (indeed, common) for a dog to have great difficulty
getting around but be otherwise happy, and so on. Different
people judge "quality of life" differently, and "quality of
life" is made of a variety of components, not all of which
are going to be equal to one another at any given moment.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On May 5, 9:51*am, Robin Nuttall wrote:
Nessa wrote:
the timing for something so painful has to be right for the owner and
the dog.... *an owner will know... NO ONE ELSE can make that
choice.... AND I think that folks that try to guilt you into doing it
or make you feel guilty for doing it are out of line.

I agree, with one slight caveat, not at all intended to relate directly
to Khan or any individual dog owned by any poster here. It would be my
wish that the owners first think about the dog's quality of life, before
they think of how devastated they will be without the dog. Unfortunately
I do see, in person, dogs who are clearly in terrible pain and not going
to get better. It's a horrible decision for all but I do hate to see
dogs suffering tremendously because the owner doesn't want to let go.

If it makes me judgmental then I guess I sometimes am. Many years ago I
had a dog who had a liver shunt and also got histoplasmosis. This was
before shunts were thought treatable. I dragged that dog through
absolute hell for well over a year. She was a walking skeleton with a
distended belly that I'd get the ascites drained out of every week or
so. I just could NOT let her go. She ended up dying horribly while I was
on a trip. It was a life-changing event for me. Never, ever again will I
subject a dog to that kind of cruelty for my own selfish need to hold
onto it. Ever. It is my wish that no one else has to learn that lesson
the way I had to. For all other dogs I've had since that one dog, I've
made sure each day had quality, and when the quality of life was lost
for the dog without hope of recovery, I let them go.

Robin I agree with you... but how do you say to a friend.. 'umm maybe
it's time?"

so hard...

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message:

I am not sure there is any kind of Usenet post I hate more
than ones suggesting it's time to euthanize a dog the poster
has never seen and knows nothing about. It's really beyond
ass-y.

If there is one thing I'm sure of, it's that we're not there yet. This was
taken two weeks ago:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65..._Arboretum.jpg

He's clearly got a stair problem, but we still go on 3-5 mile hikes without
any trouble. We just need to be more aware that just because he isn't
complaining doesn't mean that there isn't some discomfort, and mitigate
against that. We'll just see if his test results indicate anything
seriously awry that can be fixed, and if not, talk about Adequan and
Acupuncture for now, pain meds for the longer term.

It's probably good for him to do some water therapy, but given his serious
water phobia, I'm not sure I'd subject him to that.

Suja

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message:

What's in Liquid Gold?

This.
http://www.countrysidepet.com/index....OD&ProdID=1677
There is a significant difference in Pan when she's on this stuff and when
she's not; to the point where the vet called to ask what she was on because
she wanted another client to try it. The vet had seen the before/after,
with just a few weeks' difference.

I'd given both things separately but the two together seem to really work
wonders. With the caveat of YMMV, etc., I'm giving a combination of
Connectin and DogGonePain. I get both at KV Vet (http://www.kvvet.com). We
went from very slow/no sits and unable to back up to happy faster sits,
backing up, doing stairs without complaint, etc.

I'll talk to the vet about adding DGP to the routine. I'm fairly certain
she's mentioned it before. How long before you found out that it worked?

Suja

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article JvXLl.89118$DP1.27805@attbi_s22,
Robin Nuttall wrote:
I agree, with one slight caveat, not at all intended to relate directly
to Khan or any individual dog owned by any poster here. It would be my
wish that the owners first think about the dog's quality of life, before
they think of how devastated they will be without the dog.

Sure, absolutely. But there are so many variables that go
into that and it annoys the hell out of me that someone
would go ahead and make that kind of judgment about a dog
they don't know owned by a human they don't know. It's
possible (indeed, common) for a dog to have great difficulty
getting around but be otherwise happy, and so on. Different
people judge "quality of life" differently, and "quality of
life" is made of a variety of components, not all of which
are going to be equal to one another at any given moment.

FWIW, I didn;t at all see that kind of
judgment in the post being referred to.
Simply one person communicating their
experiences with some of the pitfalls that
*do* hsppen when dealing with end game scenarios.

I actually saw the opster take pains to state
that this was in their own experience and may
not apply at all to anyone else.

I really don't see that as one person telling
another to euth their dogs. Not by a long shot.

And frankly, I reserve the right to talk
about my experiences with Finn or any of the
pets I have lost if it seems in any way
connected. As long as I state it as *my*
experience, and don't push my decisions on
others, then so what? If that makes me
"ass-y" I can live with that label.

Just sayin'

Nessa wrote:

Robin I agree with you... but how do you say to a friend.. 'umm maybe
it's time?"

so hard...

I've said it. And I've had it said to me. As
hard as it was ti hear, I was grateful for
the perspective.

And saying it is hard, but not saying it is
often harder.

Suja wrote:
"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message:

What's in Liquid Gold?

This.
http://www.countrysidepet.com/index....OD&ProdID=1677

Yeah, I was actually thinking about that
stuff when I wrote. Its been known to work
minor miracles in dogs I've used it on.

How much exercise is Khan getting nowadays? I
know you're amazing at getting them out for
hikes and exercise, so I'm only asking
because of the tendency on the part of the
dog to avoid exercise when it feels "ouchy",
and yet that very thing can trigger the
arthritis to spiral....badly.

There is a significant difference in Pan when she's on this stuff and when
she's not; to the point where the vet called to ask what she was on because
she wanted another client to try it. The vet had seen the before/after,
with just a few weeks' difference.

I used to give that to Finn with every meal.
For his last two years, it was the difference
between walking (and even running!) and
almost completely crippled.

I'ma do some more research. BBL ;-)