Robin Nuttall wrote:
Janet Boss wrote:


I don't know a single trainer who doesn't use positive reinforcement,
so yes, it is a bs term.


Besides which, Lauralyn didn't say that. She said, "gee, Janet doesn't
like a positive trainer." Not "Janet doesn't like a trainer who uses
positive reinforcement."

It's ridiculous to say that Janet doesn't like a positive [sic] trainer
since she herself does use many methods that are "positive."

As for "positive reinforcement," we've got a whole nother section in
another thread talking about how people misuse that term, as Lauralyn
has just misused it.

I am SO glad I didn't have to type all that
out myself.

Especially since I'm exhausted, and I get
cranky(er) when I'm exhausted.

But seriously, that little jab LL went for
just made her look like reading comprehension
isn't a strong skill....nor is using training
terminology in a sentence.

Melinda Shore wrote:
Discovery has wrecked "The
Alaska Experiment" by changing the premise and larding it up
with telegenic youngsters with no outdoor skills
whatsoever.

Speaking of folks with no outdoor skills
whatsoever (I can no longer lay claim to
telegenic OR youngster....dammit),

I have a big festival in the desert of Nevada
I'm heading off to in the first week of Sept.
Seems I need myself a good quality tent that
can withstand winds of up to 75 mph (not just
gusts, I'm told), and can be sealed up pretty
tightly as playa dust WILL get into every
single opening.

I've found several that look good (and have
been getting quite the online education about
3 and 4 season tents in the process), but

a) I'm cheap. And poor. And a student. That
means I'm not buying the purdy $700 TNF 4
season tents I've seen.

b) I'm askeered of spending too much on a
tent that turns out *isn;t* geing to be the
best option for those conditions

c) have I mentioned how little money I want
to spend on this. (Yes, yes, I've been
scouring ebay....but am only vaguley aware of
the red flags in descriptions)

Any of you great outdoorspeople want to clue
in a newbie camper?

ObDogs: I sure wish I could bring Annie to
the festival, but I'll definitely be taking
her on the few practice camping weekends I'll
be going on this summer :-)

In article ,
Tara Green wrote:
Any of you great outdoorspeople want to clue
in a newbie camper?

Rental! But if you want to buy a tent for your very own, I
think the classic Eureka Timberline remains just about the best
value out there. They're inexpensive and very reliable, and
if you throw on some extra guy lines they can survive a
major blow with no problems. You can generally find
bargains on them on eBay, and you can get them in 2- or
4-person models (or 6-person if you get the outfitter, which
is almost certainly overkill for your purposes).
http://www.eurekatent.com/p-52-timberline-2.aspx
You shouldn't have to pay more than $120 for one.

The other thing is to start keeping an eye on Steep and
Cheap. They have tents pretty often, typically more than
50% off. But you have to act pretty quickly. You can find
software from them or elsewhere that sends pop-ups to your
computer screen when a new deal starts. steepandcheap.com.
I haven't bought much from them but I did get a pair of $80
running tights for $17, to give you a sense of what kind of
deals they've got.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"diddy" none wrote in message
. ..

I never saw Victoria Stillwell's training programs. I guess not having
Cable or sattelite has a lot to do with that.

But after seeing her on Greatest American Dog, I can honestly say I don't
care to. She's an utterly disgusting individual. I can see why Paully
likes her so much.

Well, she is easy on the eyes, although I'm not really all that much into
that dominatrix stuff. But I have not actually seen her shows, and what I
know comes from her book and posts on the VS forum. I am frankly
disenchanted with her training style, and I don't think she has the chops
to handle really difficult or aggressive dogs that Cesar welcomes as a
challenge. I have learned much from watching his DVDs and participating on
the forum. The thread I started about Muttley's Black Lab problem was
particularly helpful, and I might just try K-9's suggestion of flooding
Muttley with a whole bunch of black Labs to desensitize him to the
perception of them being a threat.
http://ngccommunity.nationalgeograph...dog-whisperer/

But we do plan to see Victoria in person at Woofstock in September. I
wonder what she will think of Muttley?

Paul and Muttley

"Tara Green" wrote in message
...

But seriously, that little jab LL went for just made her look like
reading comprehension isn't a strong skill....nor is using training
terminology in a sentence.

Actually she got that little jab from me. I hypnotized her. The devil made
her do it

Paul and Muttley

"sionnach" wrote in message
...

"Melinda Shore" wrote:

I think the worst thing about those programs is when they
lead people to think they can solve their dog's problems by
copying what they think they see there.

Yep. I've seen far too many people trying to copy Cesar Milan, especially
with the "tssst!" and poke thing, and getting it extremely wrong.
I've posted this before, but I watched someone take a Westie from a
normal untrained terrier on-leash - barking and lunging excitedly, but
with no aggression, at the sight of other dogs, and greeting fairly well
if other dogs actually approached - to major aggressive arousal, bared
teeth, snapping, etc. at any dog who got within 20 feet or so, in just
under 2 weeks of "training like Cesar".

I found that a careful watching of his DVD on dog aggression helped me
understand Muttley's apparent specific problem with black Labs. I explained
it more extensively on the Dog Whisperer forum
http://ngccommunity.nationalgeograph...dog-whisperer/, qv,
but essentially he dealt with a very reactive rescued Rottie Nicki whom he
soon cured of his generalized dog aggression, but then discovered a
particularly focused problem with white GSDs. With Nicki walking on leash
in his Dog Psych Center, Nicki kept giving wary galnces at the GSD, who
finally took a snap which developed into a full-on dog fight that took
Cesar a little while to break up. But I saw much commonality with the way I
have seen Muttley act, and indeed in his most recent "incident" at Petco,
the black Lab actually made the first "move", although Muttley instigated
it by his body language and wary eye. My own apprehension and tension
probably also traveled down the leash and Muttley may have read that as a
signal that there was a real threat to him and me. I think he showed good
restraint, and fortunately I was prepared and could pull him back and away
from the situation, at which point he became very calm.

On the NG forum, there is a knowledgeable moderator who posted much good
advice as to how to cure Muttley of his little problem, by enlisting the
help of a Labrador club where could bring Muttley for "flooding". I would
have to hide his previous aggression problems however, or they'd never let
me endanger their dogs. So, please don't tell anybody! Shhhh! Secret!
Surprise!

At least Cesar has various products and services that he offers to help
people train their dogs appropriately. From what I have seen, he does have
a gift with animals, and a true love of dogs and what he does to
rehabilitate them and train their owners to take charge so the dog doesn't
have to. It is also to his credit that he often rcommends positive methods,
while the "pure positive" camp almost universally despise him and
constantly whine about his assertive dominant and calm submissive concepts
as being so mean to impose on the poor widdle fearful doggie. Maybe
positive methods and years of patience under a skillful trainer might wotk
as well, but Cesar's methods are quicker and more logical, especially for
severe behavior issues.

Paul and Muttley

Tara Green said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I have a big festival in the desert of Nevada
I'm heading off to in the first week of Sept.

Burning Man? Good for you.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On May 5, 5:18�pm, Tara Green wrote:
Robin Nuttall wrote:
Janet Boss wrote:

I don't know a single trainer who doesn't use positive reinforcement,
so yes, it is a bs term.

Besides which, Lauralyn didn't say that. She said, "gee, Janet doesn't
like a positive trainer." Not "Janet doesn't like a trainer who uses
positive reinforcement."

It's ridiculous to say that Janet doesn't like a positive [sic] trainer
since she herself does use many methods that are "positive."

As for "positive reinforcement," we've got a whole nother section in
another thread talking about how people misuse that term, as Lauralyn
has just misused it.

I am SO glad I didn't have to type all that
out myself.

Especially since I'm exhausted, and I get
cranky(er) when I'm exhausted.

But seriously, that little jab LL went for
just made her look like reading comprehension
isn't a strong skill....nor is using training
terminology in a sentence.- Hide quoted text -


I don't think that reading comprehension, understanding terminology OR
training dogs is particluarly a strong suit for LL. She gives new
meaning to the term "simple."

On May 5, 7:30*pm, Sandy in OK wrote:
On May 5, 5:18 pm, Tara Green wrote:



Robin Nuttall wrote:
Janet Boss wrote:

I don't know a single trainer who doesn't use positive reinforcement,
so yes, it is a bs term.

Besides which, Lauralyn didn't say that. She said, "gee, Janet doesn't
like a positive trainer." Not "Janet doesn't like a trainer who uses
positive reinforcement."

It's ridiculous to say that Janet doesn't like a positive [sic] trainer
since she herself does use many methods that are "positive."

As for "positive reinforcement," we've got a whole nother section in
another thread talking about how people misuse that term, as Lauralyn
has just misused it.

I am SO glad I didn't have to type all that
out myself.

Especially since I'm exhausted, and I get
cranky(er) when I'm exhausted.

But seriously, that little jab LL went for
just made her look like reading comprehension
isn't a strong skill....nor is using training
terminology in a sentence.- Hide quoted text -

I don't think that reading comprehension, understanding terminology OR
training dogs is particluarly a strong suit for LL. She gives new
meaning to the term "simple."

You have to forgive Sandy. She brings her obsessions here. She can't
stop herself.

Lauralyn
Raw fed agility dogs
Shylo, Cheyenne, Lakota, Apache

On May 5, 4:07*pm, Janet Boss
wrote:
In article ,

*"Alison" wrote:

I *like VS though, despite the drama (though I've not seen Greatest
American Dog!)

Stick to Days of Our Lives ;-D

Seriously, I've never seen anyone who can be so weepy and sullen. *She
did it a lot on GAD and she did it on this episode. * *I don't find that
very motivational! *CM is at least a cheery guy (he kind of reminds me
of a hamster). *Both of them are playing to the audience but I find his
general personality a whole lot more appealing (ok, except for the tssst
thing, which mostly gets on *my nerves because JQP seems to think it's
some magic command). *I'm sure they both have successes and failures
with the dogs.

--
Janet Bosswww.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

It's easier to watch Ceasar. (and yes i can see the hamster thing..
LOL)
I keep expecting VS to whip out her riding crop...

as for the TSST sound... if you read his stuff he explains that's what
his MOM did with HIM to get his attention. and he says that any
sound that gets your dogs attention is fine

I noticed after reading that I use the "UT or EH" sound and my dogs
KNOW that means STOP what you are doing... it's how you say
it... .quick and sharp...