"sionnach" spoke these words of wisdom in
:



"diddy" wrote:

Paul is in my killfile, has Muttley attacked another dog?

Yes. According to what Paul has posted on the Victoria Stillwell and
National Geographic forums, a couple of months ago he took Muttley to a
"play day" at a local trainer's facility and turned him loose with a
number of other dogs. While Paul was watching other dogs, Muttley
proceeded to attack and injure a young Labrador who had rolled over
submissively; the attack was apparently utterly unprovoked on the part
of the Lab. Paul has chosen to interpret this as Muttley having an issue
with young black dogs.




Muttley's issues are with stupid clueless owners.

Sandy in OK spoke these words of wisdom in
:

On May 21, 1:30�pm, diddy none wrote:
Paul is in my killfile, has Muttley attacked another dog?

A few weeks ago (a bit over a month, I think) Paul took him to an off-
leash socialization event and he attacked a young black lab. The dog
wasn't seriously injured. Whether or not a person takes classes is
their business (and you're right, I wouldn't want him in my class
either - especially since anything that happens is the instructors
fault and he blames them online, along with publishing their webpage
along with his whining). Additionally, I don't think he's capable of
using good judgement and not creating dangerous situations. But
whether or not he addresses the dog's issues through training, I think
it's just abhorrent to continue to place other dogs at risk in his
desire to socialize the dog. Not all dogs are appropriate for off-
leash play with strange dogs, and many dogs are not appropriate for on-
leash, nose-to-nose greetings with strange dogs. If you know you have
a dog who has issues in this area, it's your responsibility to keep
other people's pets safe, as well as your own. But I know you know
that, Diddy. Unfortunately, Paul doesn't get it at all, and continues
to put dogs at risk.


This month I left a Search and Rescue training seminar because a clueless
inept handler couldn't hang on to her bloodhound and it kept getting loose.
Tuck doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. Her bloodhound had
already been loose 4 times in a matter of days. Her dog attacked mine. The
search trainers did not reprimand the bad handler. They did nothing to
protect my dog. They took away our guns (which is a good thing... because
there WOULD have been an incident)

My dog never defended himself. He never tried to do anything. He stood
there while he got bitten and waited for me to remove the dog from him.

it only takes ONE attack from another dog to ruin a dog and turn them dog
aggressive FOR LIFE. Tuck has been attacked several times. It's my JOB to
protect him. So far, he's not been damaged by those episodes. But when they
offered nothing to protect my dog from the idiot handler, I left, and took
my dog home to safety. I forfeited the seminar, my money, and my
certification that I went there for, just because another dog presented a
danger to my dog.

If muttley attacked Tuck.. he'd be dead. I'm sure I'm not the only person
who feels that way about their dog, and someday Paul is going to wonder
what happened, when he selects another target to become Muttley's lunch.
I'm sure I have a whole lot more time and training and investment in Tuck
than Paul ever dreamed of in Muttley.

sionnach wrote:

"diddy" wrote:

Paul is in my killfile, has Muttley attacked another dog?

Yes. According to what Paul has posted on the Victoria Stillwell and
National Geographic forums, a couple of months ago he took Muttley to a
"play day" at a local trainer's facility and turned him loose with a number
of other dogs. While Paul was watching other dogs, Muttley proceeded to
attack and injure a young Labrador who had rolled over submissively; the
attack was apparently utterly unprovoked on the part of the Lab.
Paul has chosen to interpret this as Muttley having an issue with young
black dogs.

Idiot! Again! Paul has an issue with reality. Always!

--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

"diddy" none wrote in message
.. .
Sandy in OK spoke these words of wisdom in
:

On May 21, 1:30�pm, diddy none wrote:
Paul is in my killfile, has Muttley attacked another dog?

A few weeks ago (a bit over a month, I think) Paul took him to an off-
leash socialization event and he attacked a young black lab. The dog
wasn't seriously injured. Whether or not a person takes classes is
their business (and you're right, I wouldn't want him in my class
either - especially since anything that happens is the instructors
fault and he blames them online, along with publishing their webpage
along with his whining). Additionally, I don't think he's capable of
using good judgement and not creating dangerous situations. But
whether or not he addresses the dog's issues through training, I think
it's just abhorrent to continue to place other dogs at risk in his
desire to socialize the dog. Not all dogs are appropriate for off-
leash play with strange dogs, and many dogs are not appropriate for on-
leash, nose-to-nose greetings with strange dogs. If you know you have
a dog who has issues in this area, it's your responsibility to keep
other people's pets safe, as well as your own. But I know you know
that, Diddy. Unfortunately, Paul doesn't get it at all, and continues
to put dogs at risk.


This month I left a Search and Rescue training seminar because a clueless
inept handler couldn't hang on to her bloodhound and it kept getting
loose.
Tuck doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. Her bloodhound had
already been loose 4 times in a matter of days. Her dog attacked mine.
The
search trainers did not reprimand the bad handler. They did nothing to
protect my dog. They took away our guns (which is a good thing... because
there WOULD have been an incident)

My dog never defended himself. He never tried to do anything. He stood
there while he got bitten and waited for me to remove the dog from him.

it only takes ONE attack from another dog to ruin a dog and turn them dog
aggressive FOR LIFE. Tuck has been attacked several times. It's my JOB
to
protect him. So far, he's not been damaged by those episodes. But when
they
offered nothing to protect my dog from the idiot handler, I left, and
took
my dog home to safety. I forfeited the seminar, my money, and my
certification that I went there for, just because another dog presented a
danger to my dog.

If muttley attacked Tuck.. he'd be dead. I'm sure I'm not the only person
who feels that way about their dog, and someday Paul is going to wonder
what happened, when he selects another target to become Muttley's lunch.
I'm sure I have a whole lot more time and training and investment in Tuck
than Paul ever dreamed of in Muttley.

Since you have me killfiled you don't read what I post and only the
hysterical fabrications and fears of others who choose to make their own
comments with their own skewed attitude. I have received much more helpful
advice in a short time from the forums of Victoria Stilwell and the CM
forum than I have ever received here. And the only advice I took was to
attend Janet's classes which turned into a disaster.

I am very resonsible with Muttley and I told my friend that he had
displayed some dog aggression in the past, but she was not worried and
Muttley was every bit the gentleman during his visit. Who knows why he
displayed the aggression on those few instances. Dogs sometimes don't get
along. They play rough or they fight. They send signals and react in ways
we sometimes don't understand. But at least I am trying to find out why he
has done what he has, and I am giving him the opportunity to socialize and
be a dog.

Your experience with the aggressive bloodhound was unfortunate, and was
much worse than any of the incidents that Muttley was involved in except
maybe the first, where he was very stressed and it was very likely
redirected aggression. I'm sure Muttley would not have attacked Tuck, and I
would not have let him off leash without first having them meet each other
properly.

Paul and Muttley

"diddy" none wrote:


If muttley attacked Tuck.. he'd be dead. I'm sure I'm not the only person
who feels that way about their dog,

Nope. Not when the dog has a history of attacks, and an owner who
repeatedly fails to keep it under control despite warnings.

and someday Paul is going to wonder

By the way, Paul is now referring to what Sandy & I have told you as
"hysterical fabrications". Here are his own words about Muttley's third
attack - note that he clearly states he wasn't paying attention to his dog
when the attack occurred:

"When I unhooked his leash, my attention was mostly on the other dogs
chasing after balls and running around, and then I heard a commotion and saw
Muttley standing over the black Lab puppy who was rolled over and yelping. I
grabbed his harness and pulled him off in a second, and the instructor
yelled "everyone grab your dogs". Muttley and I sat there, myself in
disbelief, while the injured dog was tended to, and the instructor told us
"You will have to leave, NOW", "

On May 21, 9:33�pm, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
Since you have me killfiled you don't read what I post and only the
hysterical fabrications and fears of others who choose to make their own
comments with their own skewed attitude. I have received much more helpful
advice in a short time from the forums of Victoria Stilwell and the CM
forum than I have ever received here.

***
If she's got you killfiled, why defend yourself to Diddy? Except just
to hear youself whine. Of course on the VS forum you mostly talked
about how much better the CM forum was until people there got very
tired of you as well. If you don't get anything from this forum, why
are you still here? Were you banned from VS? I know that was very
close to happening.
***

I am very resonsible with Muttley and I told my friend that he had
displayed some dog aggression in the past, but she was not worried and
Muttley was every bit the gentleman during his visit. Who knows why he
displayed the aggression on those few instances. Dogs sometimes don't get
along. They play rough or they fight. They send signals and react in ways
we sometimes don't understand. But at least I am trying to find out why he
has done what he has, and I am giving him the opportunity to socialize and
be a dog.

***
What have you actually done to find out why he attacks dogs? (other
than to continue to put him in those situation and hope it will
suddenly come to you why this happens) The fact is, not all dogs need
to "socialize" in this way. Many are happier if stupid people do not
put them in the sort of situation where they feel their only
alternative is aggression.

It doesn't really matter that he's only seriously injured one dog
physically. It doesn't matter that your friends are as stupid as you
are and agree to risk their dogs by letting them "play" with Muttley.
You don't understand what triggers him. You can't even notice when
he's been triggered until he's on top of the poor dog.

He seems to target young dogs (but maybe not) and for the pups who do
everything in their power to show themselves to not be a threat and
still get attacked, it doesn't much matter if they need stitches or
not. The even may create severe fear issues, which can take years and
hard work to get through - if ever. It can create another aggressive
dog who feels they have to take to offense to protect themselves. You
may have noticed, Paul, I'm not one to go with the crowd after an
unpopular poster - anywhere. However, people who put dogs in
situations that endanger others for their own selfishness, and
misguided ideas of what their dog "needs." make me see red. Because I
see a lot of dogs who are victims of stupid people like you.

"Paul E. Schoen" spoke these words of wisdom in
:

I'm sure Muttley would not have attacked Tuck, and I
would not have let him off leash without first having them meet each other
properly.



I would not ALLOW Muttley to meet Tuck. EVER.

And if you made a move to unsnap Muttley's leash, I'd shoot Muttley DEAD.

And justify it by your assault.

"sionnach" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

"When I unhooked his leash, my attention was mostly on the
other dogs chasing after balls and running around, and then
I heard a commotion and saw Muttley standing over the black
Lab puppy who was rolled over and yelping. I grabbed his
harness and pulled him off in a second, and the instructor
yelled "everyone grab your dogs". Muttley and I sat there,
myself in disbelief, while the injured dog was tended to,
and the instructor told us "You will have to leave, NOW", "

This is unbelievable. Even the many dog novices I know know how
to avoid (or train/socialise against) situations like this. Or
at least be observant.

Almost all of these people have rescue dogs from a local reserve
which have backgrounds of abuse or neglect.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" wrote:

"sionnach" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

"When I unhooked his leash, my attention was mostly on the
other dogs chasing after balls and running around, and then
I heard a commotion and saw Muttley standing over the black
Lab puppy who was rolled over and yelping. I grabbed his
harness and pulled him off in a second, and the instructor
yelled "everyone grab your dogs". Muttley and I sat there,
myself in disbelief, while the injured dog was tended to,
and the instructor told us "You will have to leave, NOW", "

To clarify for anyone else coming in mid-thread: *I* didn't say that;
those are Paul's words, I merely quoted him.

This is unbelievable. Even the many dog novices I know know how
to avoid (or train/socialise against) situations like this. Or
at least be observant.

Yup. Especially if the dog has a past history of going after other dogs in
more than one situation (the prior attacks having occured once in a training
class and once while trail walking). What really gets up my nose about this
situation is despite the Muttley having had issues with Labradors on at
least 3 prior occasions (in Janet's class, at a PetsMart, and on the
trails), it apparently never occurred to Paul that perhaps he should monitor
him with this one.

I wish I had the luxury of killfiling and ignoring Paul, but as long as he
lives near me, and goes to some of the same stores and parks, I consider it
wiser to keep informed. (Among other things, if I ever need to defend one of
my dogs against Muttley, I'll have evidence to back up my actions.)

In article ,
sionnach wrote:
I wish I had the luxury of killfiling and ignoring Paul,

You do ("luxury?").
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community