Phyrie wrote:
"Char" wrote in message
m...
There is lots of evidence that shows cancer for instance is way higher
in pets than it ever was.

My point is, if you don't see a vet, you would never know your dog had
cancer. You only know he got sick and died. So, sure there is "way higher"
incidents of cancer in pets. Because we care enough to look.

"Dogs may actually be consuming carcinogens in their dog food. Some of
the chemicals used to preserve pet foods have been revealed to be cancer
causing agents. Sadly, Mouth cancer is actually the fourth leading cause
of cancer deaths in dogs."
http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Cancer_in_Dogs

Those preservatives are only in processed dog foods.

"Forty years ago the average Golden Retriever lived to be fifteen or
sixteen, while house cats routinely lived into their twenties. Today the
Golden Retriever’s life expectancy is seven years. (Bell, Kristen Lee,
Holistic
Aromatherapy for Animals, 2002, p. VIII)
Why has our pet's health and longevity declined over the last 40-50
years? Pet food manufacturers often use poor quality ingredients that
are not fit for human consumption, such as 4D meat (dying, dead,
diseased, disabled), by-products (feet, heads, beaks, hides, hooves) and
moldy or contaminated grains. The food may then be preserved with BHA,
BHT or ethoxyquine, which can cause cancer. (For more information, see
"What's Really in Pet Food" by the Animal Protection Institute.)"
http://www.optimumchoices.com/pet_food.htm

It is a fact that our dogs get way too many vaccines now. This didn't
happen years ago.

"One of the more no-holds-barred statements about vaccines is Dr.
Richard Pitcairn's warning: "Giving a vaccine to an animal with cancer
is like pouring gasoline on a fire." He also advises not vaccinating
pets who have breast tumors or any other growths or tumors. His overall
recommendations regarding vaccines are these: Try to get your
veterinarian to give single or simple vaccines rather than complex
vaccines. Young animals can tolerate a reduced vaccination schedule,
but vaccinating is not advised before sixteen weeks of age. Annual
boosters should be avoided even though they have been popular. Pitcairn
goes so far as to say avoid "any further vaccinations after the initial
series as they are not necessary." He adds that the latest official
medical opinion is that annual boosters are neither required nor
effective, although not all veterinarians will agree with or even know
this fact.
Perhaps the most shocking and informative book about the pet food
industry is Ann Martin's "Food Pet's Die For", published in 1997. As
Dr. Michael W. Fox, vice president of the Humane Society of the United
States, says, "Ann Martin is to the pet food industry what Rachel Caron
was to the petrochemical-pesticide industry." Martin spent seven years
investigating the commercial pet food industry and what she uncovered
isn't pretty. There are several reasons you really do not want to feed
your dog or cat commercial foods. Perhaps the most compelling moral
reason is that there are rendered, euthanized pets in much of this food.
These pets have been mixed with other materials, including some
condemned for human consumption: "rotten meat from supermarket shelves,
restaurant grease..'4-D' (dead, diseased, dying and disabled) animals
and roadkill."

The Minister of Agriculture of Quebec told Martin that dead animals are
often cooked with viscera, bones, fat and fur. In both the United
States and Quebec, this rendering of pets is not illegal. Martin points
to an article originally published in the San Francisco Chronicle in
which an employee and ex-employee of a rendering plant admitted that
their company rendered approximately 250,000 to 500,000 pounds of
animals, scraps and more, including "somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000
pounds of dogs and cats a day."
http://www.preciouspets.org/cancer.htm

Yummy!

Sharon Too wrote:

And pets are living YEARS longer than they ever did as well.

No they aren't. Sharon, just saying it doesn't make it so.

Many years, in
fact. AND by the majority of them eating gasp commercial pet food. Older
age = more chance of cancer. But that's science, which Char has no
understanding of. (Hats off, BTW, to those who feed raw and do it right.
But the vast majority of folks either don't want to do it or don't have the
ability to do it right.)

Most "folks" don't know kibble is crap and don't know there are much
better alternatives.


Oh, and let me save her some time and tell people that I sell poison that
kills animals. That would be flea control. Of course we have never had a pet
die from using Advantage or Frontline, but she will disagree anyway, like
she'd know. Oh, but we have had cats and dogs suffer and die from flea bite
anemia.

And never any side effects from those pesticides? Statistics and studies
(previously posted) say that is impossible. Of course, it's easy to tell
clients their pets' symptoms aren't related to the pesticides.sarcasm
How silly to think pesticides hurt pets!/sarcasm You can't deny the
studies Sharon. At least not in the real world. It does get you off the
hook for liability doesn't it?

Why would someone choose a product that causes harm when there are
others that accomplish the same thing and are harmless? There is only
one reason. They don't know about the other choices. Vets want them to
think that the only place they can buy products that kill fleas is at
the vet's office and that the only ones that work are pesticides.

Do you ever even suggest that people simply vacuum more often? I guess
all your clients are slobs.

Phyrie wrote:
"Char" wrote in message
m...
There is lots of evidence that shows cancer for instance is way higher
in pets than it ever was.

*sigh* Did it ever occur to you that people CARE for their pets more than
ever? That pet owners are totally invested in their pet's care, and if they
think they're sick, they take them to the vet's, rather than like they did
years ago, let 'em die.

My parents were of the school that dogs belong outside, cats are tolerated
only if they do their job, and all were disposable. If one died, so what?
Someone was always having a litter of some sort or another. Try and find an
accidental litter these days. It's virtually impossible. At least, not
around here. I don't know about the rest of you...

My point is, if you don't see a vet, you would never know your dog had
cancer. You only know he got sick and died. So, sure there is "way higher"
incidents of cancer in pets. Because we care enough to look.

Good points, Phyrie. And most cancers appear in old age, so in
the past many pets would not have lived long enough for one to
develop.

(I wish it were true around where I live that accidental litters
are hard to find...)

There are SO MANY changes over the past 50 years in the
environment that pets (and we) live in, it's kind of silly to
glom onto "KIBBLE!!!!" as the sole cause for anything. [Yes,
there's crap kibble out there. And there's crap raw meat out
there too. But let's just blame the kibble, 'cause that's easy.]

FurPaw

--
We can be absolutely certain only about things we do not understand.
-Eric Hoffer

To reply, unleash the dog.

FurPaw wrote:

There are SO MANY changes over the past 50 years in the environment that
pets (and we) live in, it's kind of silly to glom onto "KIBBLE!!!!" as
the sole cause for anything. [Yes, there's crap kibble out there. And
there's crap raw meat out there too. But let's just blame the kibble,
'cause that's easy.]

FurPaw


Hey Furpy,

There was much more than just a blame presented here. Do you have no
knowledge of what "processed food" is? Lets go back to kindergarden for
those who can't comprehend. Kibble is made from ingredients that are
left over from human foods. Another word for it would be "garbage". Many
have ingredients from rendering plants in them as well.

Processed foods has been in the news quite a lot lately, mostly in
relation to human food but this also applies at least as much if not
more than pet food. It is killing and maiming us, it is killing and
maiming our pets.

Why don't you know this? Do you not know how to click on a link? I know
I just posted a few. Lets try again!

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0...ient-bites.htm

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...od_commentary/
"the more processed the food, the less nutritious it typically is."

http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_...rocessed.shtml
"as a practicing veterinary surgeon, I constantly see the enormous
difference in health between pets raised on commercial pet food compared
to those raised on a biologically appropriate raw food diet. I see the
enormous change for good in the health of pets switched from cooked to a
raw whole food diet. Despite that very obvious connection between
commercial pet food and the poor health of the animals consuming it,
commercial pet food has become the accepted way to feed pets throughout
the civilized world!"

It gets old when I post facts and highly educated opinions and have to
respond to ignorant comments based on absolutely nothing.

You just keep eating your processed foods and feeding them to your pets
too. Some day it will be against the law.

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:30:46 -0400, Char
wrote:


http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_...rocessed.shtml
"as a practicing veterinary surgeon,

Just for the exercise, could you please provide me with the name of
this "practicing veterinary surgeon"? And what relationship he/she has
with pushing BARF World products? Thanks!

Char wrote:
FurPaw wrote:

There are SO MANY changes over the past 50 years in the environment
that pets (and we) live in, it's kind of silly to glom onto
"KIBBLE!!!!" as the sole cause for anything. [Yes, there's crap
kibble out there. And there's crap raw meat out there too. But let's
just blame the kibble, 'cause that's easy.]

FurPaw


Hey Furpy,

There was much more than just a blame presented here. Do you have no
knowledge of what "processed food" is? Lets go back to kindergarden for
those who can't comprehend. Kibble is made from ingredients that are
left over from human foods. Another word for it would be "garbage". Many
have ingredients from rendering plants in them as well.

Chard, your problem (well, one of them) is that you
overgeneralize. There are many ways of making kibble, some of
them despicable, others presenting a nutritious diet. Now, I
know that you are absolutely certain that nothing can be
nutritious if it's not raw. Shrug

I'm curious, though - where do you get the raw food that you feed
your animals? And would you prevent your dog or cat from eating
a whole mouse?

FurPaw

--
We can be absolutely certain only about things we do not understand.
-Eric Hoffer

To reply, unleash the dog.

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:40:20 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:30:46 -0400, Char
wrote:


http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_...rocessed.shtml
"as a practicing veterinary surgeon,

Just for the exercise, could you please provide me with the name of
this "practicing veterinary surgeon"? And what relationship he/she has
with pushing BARF World products? Thanks!

I think I found answers to my questions. It's apparently Australian
vet Dr. Ian Billinghurst, and he sells his own line of BARF products.
No conflict of interest there, right?

Sharon Too wrote:
*sigh* Did it ever occur to you that people CARE for their pets more than
ever? That pet owners are totally invested in their pet's care, and if
they think they're sick, they take them to the vet's, rather than like
they did years ago, let 'em die.

And pets are living YEARS longer than they ever did as well. Many years, in
fact. AND by the majority of them eating gasp commercial pet food. Older
age = more chance of cancer. But that's science, which Char has no
understanding of. (Hats off, BTW, to those who feed raw and do it right.
But the vast majority of folks either don't want to do it or don't have the
ability to do it right.)

Oh, and let me save her some time and tell people that I sell poison that
kills animals. That would be flea control. Of course we have never had a pet
die from using Advantage or Frontline, but she will disagree anyway, like
she'd know. Oh, but we have had cats and dogs suffer and die from flea bite
anemia.

And the beat goes on.......



I'm guessing her preferred method of flea
control involved DE....which is like
sprinkling the world's smallest razor blades
onto your pet.

Yeah, that's a GREAT idea for their lungs and
digestive systems.

No thanks.

FurPaw wrote:
Char wrote:
FurPaw wrote:

There are SO MANY changes over the past 50 years in the environment
that pets (and we) live in, it's kind of silly to glom onto
"KIBBLE!!!!" as the sole cause for anything. [Yes, there's crap
kibble out there. And there's crap raw meat out there too. But let's
just blame the kibble, 'cause that's easy.]

FurPaw


Hey Furpy,

There was much more than just a blame presented here. Do you have no
knowledge of what "processed food" is? Lets go back to kindergarden
for those who can't comprehend. Kibble is made from ingredients that
are left over from human foods. Another word for it would be
"garbage". Many have ingredients from rendering plants in them as well.

Chard, your problem (well, one of them) is that you overgeneralize.
There are many ways of making kibble, some of them despicable, others
presenting a nutritious diet. Now, I know that you are absolutely
certain that nothing can be nutritious if it's not raw. Shrug

I'm with you up to that part. Totally.

I'm curious, though - where do you get the raw food that you feed your
animals? And would you prevent your dog or cat from eating a whole mouse?



I get mine from a regional farm.

And there are plenty of raw feeders that do
feed whole mice and rats to their pets. Cats,
in particular, evolved to eat small prey.

I've fed ground mouse.

Not sure what you point is on that part.

Tara Green wrote:
FurPaw wrote:
Char wrote:
FurPaw wrote:

I'm curious, though - where do you get the raw food that you feed your
animals? And would you prevent your dog or cat from eating a whole
mouse?



I get mine from a regional farm.

And there are plenty of raw feeders that do feed whole mice and rats to
their pets. Cats, in particular, evolved to eat small prey.

I've fed ground mouse.

Not sure what you point is on that part.

I'll tell you after Chard answers...

FurPaw

--
We can be absolutely certain only about things we do not understand.
-Eric Hoffer

To reply, unleash the dog.