Traditional training techniques are based on the idea that we must
become the dominant leader and rule our pets the way a wolf would rule a
pack. That is, they assume most misbehavior in dogs is due to the dog is
trying to be dominant and then they employ techniques that they think a
wolf (since dogs are seen as having a social structure similar to
wolves) would perform in a wolf pack. In order to evaluate whether this
reasoning is valid, we must first understand what dominance is.

Dominance is not a personality trait. If you take four individuals, each
who is the highest ranked member of its group and put them together in a
new group, they will fight and establish a rank order of 1-4 between
them. Thus only one of the individuals who was ranked highest in its own
group will have highest rank now.

Having a stable rank does not mean the situation is peaceful. Rank is
maintained through ritualistic aggressive acts on the part of the higher
ranked individual and appeasement or deference on the part of the lower
ranked individual. In many groups, once rank is obtained, individuals
can then forge stronger bonds though mutual grooming or other bonding
behaviors. Some alpha individuals have more aggressive styles of
maintaining rank while others have a calm, more subtle style. Different
species also have different tendencies. For instance macaques monkey are
notoriously despotic and aggressive and removal of the high ranked
individual for just several hours can result in immediate restructuring
(fighting) within the group. Similarly with mixed packs of wolves, such
as occurs in captivity, removal of higher ranked wolves can lead a need
to re-establish rank once the individual is reintroduced. Note that this
model of group structure and leadership is similar to what occurs on
shows such as the Sopranos and Madmen.

Wolves in the wild generally do not gain their high rank by fighting
their way to the top. Instead a male and female breed and the pack is a
family unit comprised of the parents and the offspring. The parents
naturally become the leaders. The offspring naturally follow their lead.
As a result of this discovery regarding pack structure, wolf biologists
no longer even use the term alpha with wild wolf packs.

http://askdryin.com/dominance.php?act=play&mov=1#end

Char wrote:
Traditional training techniques are based on the idea that we must
become the dominant leader and rule our pets the way a wolf would rule a
pack. That is, they assume most misbehavior in dogs is due to the dog is
trying to be dominant and then they employ techniques that they think a
wolf (since dogs are seen as having a social structure similar to
wolves) would perform in a wolf pack. In order to evaluate whether this
reasoning is valid, we must first understand what dominance is.

Dominance is not a personality trait. If you take four individuals, each
who is the highest ranked member of its group and put them together in a
new group, they will fight and establish a rank order of 1-4 between
them. Thus only one of the individuals who was ranked highest in its own
group will have highest rank now.

Having a stable rank does not mean the situation is peaceful. Rank is
maintained through ritualistic aggressive acts on the part of the higher
ranked individual and appeasement or deference on the part of the lower
ranked individual. In many groups, once rank is obtained, individuals
can then forge stronger bonds though mutual grooming or other bonding
behaviors. Some alpha individuals have more aggressive styles of
maintaining rank while others have a calm, more subtle style. Different
species also have different tendencies. For instance macaques monkey are
notoriously despotic and aggressive and removal of the high ranked
individual for just several hours can result in immediate restructuring
(fighting) within the group. Similarly with mixed packs of wolves, such
as occurs in captivity, removal of higher ranked wolves can lead a need
to re-establish rank once the individual is reintroduced. Note that this
model of group structure and leadership is similar to what occurs on
shows such as the Sopranos and Madmen.

Wolves in the wild generally do not gain their high rank by fighting
their way to the top. Instead a male and female breed and the pack is a
family unit comprised of the parents and the offspring. The parents
naturally become the leaders. The offspring naturally follow their lead.
As a result of this discovery regarding pack structure, wolf biologists
no longer even use the term alpha with wild wolf packs.

http://askdryin.com/dominance.php?act=play&mov=1#end


Interesting article. I can see the relevance to rescue dogs or dogs
that have been beaten in to submission. Does any body do that any more?

With one exception.

When my dog was being aggressive with another dog I grabbed my and
pushed it onto the ground in a submission pose (that is what I was told
to do) by experts. It did not work!! I mean it usually worked at one
meeting 50% of the time. I found a better way was to put my dog on the
lead an take it for a walk and let it forget about it then release it
latter.


I now put my dog on the lead and walk it away and release it again

Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Traditional training techniques are based on the idea that we must
become the dominant leader and rule our pets the way a wolf would rule
a pack. That is, they assume most misbehavior in dogs is due to the
dog is trying to be dominant and then they employ techniques that they
think a wolf (since dogs are seen as having a social structure similar
to wolves) would perform in a wolf pack. In order to evaluate whether
this reasoning is valid, we must first understand what dominance is.

Dominance is not a personality trait. If you take four individuals,
each who is the highest ranked member of its group and put them
together in a new group, they will fight and establish a rank order of
1-4 between them. Thus only one of the individuals who was ranked
highest in its own group will have highest rank now.

Having a stable rank does not mean the situation is peaceful. Rank is
maintained through ritualistic aggressive acts on the part of the
higher ranked individual and appeasement or deference on the part of
the lower ranked individual. In many groups, once rank is obtained,
individuals can then forge stronger bonds though mutual grooming or
other bonding behaviors. Some alpha individuals have more aggressive
styles of maintaining rank while others have a calm, more subtle
style. Different species also have different tendencies. For instance
macaques monkey are notoriously despotic and aggressive and removal of
the high ranked individual for just several hours can result in
immediate restructuring (fighting) within the group. Similarly with
mixed packs of wolves, such as occurs in captivity, removal of higher
ranked wolves can lead a need to re-establish rank once the individual
is reintroduced. Note that this model of group structure and
leadership is similar to what occurs on shows such as the Sopranos and
Madmen.

Wolves in the wild generally do not gain their high rank by fighting
their way to the top. Instead a male and female breed and the pack is
a family unit comprised of the parents and the offspring. The parents
naturally become the leaders. The offspring naturally follow their
lead. As a result of this discovery regarding pack structure, wolf
biologists no longer even use the term alpha with wild wolf packs.

http://askdryin.com/dominance.php?act=play&mov=1#end


Interesting article. I can see the relevance to rescue dogs or dogs
that have been beaten in to submission. Does any body do that any more?

With one exception.

When my dog was being aggressive with another dog I grabbed my and
pushed it onto the ground in a submission pose (that is what I was told
to do) by experts. It did not work!! I mean it usually worked at one
meeting 50% of the time. I found a better way was to put my dog on the
lead an take it for a walk and let it forget about it then release it
latter.


I now put my dog on the lead and walk it away and release it again

I guess dogs know fake submission when they see it, huh? So much for the
experts.

Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Traditional training techniques are based on the idea that we must
become the dominant leader and rule our pets the way a wolf would
rule a pack. That is, they assume most misbehavior in dogs is due to
the dog is trying to be dominant and then they employ techniques that
they think a wolf (since dogs are seen as having a social structure
similar to wolves) would perform in a wolf pack. In order to evaluate
whether this reasoning is valid, we must first understand what
dominance is.

Dominance is not a personality trait. If you take four individuals,
each who is the highest ranked member of its group and put them
together in a new group, they will fight and establish a rank order
of 1-4 between them. Thus only one of the individuals who was ranked
highest in its own group will have highest rank now.

Having a stable rank does not mean the situation is peaceful. Rank is
maintained through ritualistic aggressive acts on the part of the
higher ranked individual and appeasement or deference on the part of
the lower ranked individual. In many groups, once rank is obtained,
individuals can then forge stronger bonds though mutual grooming or
other bonding behaviors. Some alpha individuals have more aggressive
styles of maintaining rank while others have a calm, more subtle
style. Different species also have different tendencies. For instance
macaques monkey are notoriously despotic and aggressive and removal
of the high ranked individual for just several hours can result in
immediate restructuring (fighting) within the group. Similarly with
mixed packs of wolves, such as occurs in captivity, removal of higher
ranked wolves can lead a need to re-establish rank once the
individual is reintroduced. Note that this model of group structure
and leadership is similar to what occurs on shows such as the
Sopranos and Madmen.

Wolves in the wild generally do not gain their high rank by fighting
their way to the top. Instead a male and female breed and the pack is
a family unit comprised of the parents and the offspring. The parents
naturally become the leaders. The offspring naturally follow their
lead. As a result of this discovery regarding pack structure, wolf
biologists no longer even use the term alpha with wild wolf packs.

http://askdryin.com/dominance.php?act=play&mov=1#end


Interesting article. I can see the relevance to rescue dogs or dogs
that have been beaten in to submission. Does any body do that any more?

With one exception.

When my dog was being aggressive with another dog I grabbed my and
pushed it onto the ground in a submission pose (that is what I was
told to do) by experts. It did not work!! I mean it usually worked
at one meeting 50% of the time. I found a better way was to put my
dog on the lead an take it for a walk and let it forget about it then
release it latter.


I now put my dog on the lead and walk it away and release it again

I guess dogs know fake submission when they see it, huh? So much for the
experts.

Indeed. But nothing seems to work 100%. My dog was on an off leash
beach we went into the bush behind it. I saw a Kangaroo and immediately
called my dog. Too late my saw it first dog was all exited and chased
it ( have never seen my dog truly bite anything other than its food) The
Kangaroo was much faster which is just as well as have extremely
powerful hind legs and can easily disembowel a dog if cornered.

I normally have pretty good recall on my dog but in truly dangerous
situations you which they will come back to you. I feel sorry for the
Kangaroo too. I don't want wildlife scared out of their mind or injured
in the chase.