Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:


What vaccine have you had that protects you for life? I am sure
that if you were exposed to say Polio you will fair better than
someone who never was vaccinated.

Why are you sure of that? No vaccine has ever had a double blind w
placebo study done on it so there is no proof that any of them work.

the Americas. In 1960, there were 2,525 cases of paralytic polio in
the United States. By 1965, there were 61.

In 1994, polio was declared eradicated in all of the Americas.

If that does not convince you then nothing will.

I do not have access to double blind studies on Polio I am sure they
exist somewhere.

Why are you sure? I'm supposed to take your word for it?

Or maybe the ethics comities did not have the heart to
conduct such trial.

Cervical cancer vaccine I can cite because I was involved with them.

16,000 women double blind, enjoy, now tell me there is no proof that
any of them work. In Australia medication subsidised double blind
studies are the very minimum requirement to get subsidy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=1


It's about time you bring anything to the table! We now have one study
on a vaccine. Yay!

I'd still not have any child of mine get that vaccine. It's dangerous.





the Americas. In 1960, there were 2,525 cases of paralytic polio in
the United States. By 1965, there were 61. Safety.

In 1994, polio was declared eradicated in all of the Americas.

Do you really need more evidence?

The earliest known case of polio is 4,000 years old. Do you really
think that it just decided to disappear.

So you have no proof that vaccines work then. Polio was already
disappearing before the vaccine was given and the vaccine itself
caused many cases of polio.

According to conservative estimates, from 1955 to 1963 more than 98
million children and adults in the United States were exposed
inadvertently to live SV40 because of SV40-contaminated polio
vaccines. SV40 has been shown to be a potent oncogenic
deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) virus and in animal models, the neoplasias
induced by SV40 included primary brain cancers, malignant
mesotheliomas, bone tumors, and systemic lymphomas.

Even the most basic Google search will tell you that Polio is an RNA
virus. SV40 is DNA monkey virus not even remotely related to Polio.
Your link DID NOT MENTION THE POLIO VACCINE AT ALL !!

Yeah, it did. The virus was in the polio vaccine. Read much?


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3acd8ef1f04399


Vaccination Myth #6:

"Polio was one of the clearly great vaccination success stories..."

...or was it?

Six New England states reported increases in polio one year after the
Salk vaccine was introduced, ranging from more than doubling in
Vermont to Massachusetts' astounding increase of 642%; other states
reported increases as well.

The incidence in Wisconsin increased by a factor of five. Idaho and
Utah actually halted vaccination due to the increased incidence and
death rate. In 1959, 77.5% of Massachusetts' paralytic cases had
received 3 doses of IPV (injected polio vaccine).

During 1962 U.S. Congressional hearings, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head
of the Dept. of Biostatistics for the University of North Carolina
School of Public Health, testified that not only did the cases of
polio increase substantially after mandatory vaccinations -- a 50%
increase from 1957 to 1958, and an 80% increase from 1958 to 1959-but
that the statistics were deliberately manipulated by the Public Health
Service to give the opposite impression.

It is important to understand that the polio vaccine was not
universally accepted, at least initially. Despite this, polio declined
both in European countries that refused mass vaccination as well as in
those that employed it.

According to researcher-author Dr. Viera Scheibner, 90% of polio cases
were eliminated from statistics by health authorities' redefinition of
the disease when the vaccine was introduced, while in reality the Salk
vaccine was continuing to cause paralytic polio in several countries
at a time when there were no epidemics being caused by the wild virus.

For example, cases of viral and aseptic meningitis, which have
symptoms similar to polio, were routinely diagnosed and recorded as
polio before the vaccine, but were distinguished and removed from
polio statistics after the vaccine.

Also, the number of cases needed to declare an epidemic was raised
from 20 to 35, and the requirement for inclusion in paralysis
statistics was changed from symptoms that lasted for 24 hours to
symptoms lasting 60 days (many polio victims' paralysis was temporary).

It is no wonder that polio decreased radically after vaccines-at least
on paper. In 1985, the CDC reported that 87% of the cases of polio in
the US between 1973 and 1983 were caused by the vaccine, and later
declared that all but a few imported cases since were caused by the
vaccine-and most of the imported cases occurred in fully vaccinated
individuals.

Jonas Salk, inventor of the IPV, testified before a Senate
subcommittee that nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by
the oral polio vaccine.
Cite please 8 cases per year as opposed to 2,525 is still a victory.
For an early vaccine that has since been vastly improved.

With no proof the vaccine caused the "victory" and much pointing out
that it was not the vaccine at all.



At a workshop on polio vaccines sponsored by the Institute of Medicine
and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Samuel Katz of
Duke University cited the estimated 8-10 annual US cases of
vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) in people who have taken the
oral polio vaccine, and the [four year] absence of wild polio from the
western hemisphere.

Jessica Scheer of the National Rehabilitation Hospital Research Center
in Washington, D.C., pointed out that most parents are unaware that
polio vaccination in this country entails "a small number of human
sacrifices each year."

Compounding this contradiction are low adverse event reporting and the
NVIC's experiences with confirming and correcting misdiagnoses of
vaccine reactions, which suggest that the actual number of VAPP
"sacrifices" may be 10 to 100 times higher than that cited by the CDC.
For these reasons, the live polio virus is no longer in widespread use.

To be sure, polio as it was known in the first half of the 20th
century does not exist today. However, declines following polio peaks
in the late 1940's and early 1950's had been underway again for a
period of years by the time the vaccine was introduced.

Vaccination Truth #6:

"The polio vaccine temporarily reversed disease declines that were
underway before the vaccine was introduced; this fact was deliberately
covered up by health authorities. In Europe, polio declined in
countries that both embraced and rejected the vaccine."
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...ne-myths2.aspx


You believe what you what to believe. I am old enough to remember the
crippled people hobbling around from Polio.

And?

If you what to believe that
a virus that has been around for at least 4,000 years suddenly decided
to leave the western world of its own accord. Just at the time when a
vaccine arrived then go with God.

You'd think that with your training you'd actually see the truth. Back
to the Vaccine Seminar. Dodd believes vaccines work but that they cause
harm when repeated each year. Almost every state has changed their
rabies vaccine laws so that animals are vaccinated every three years
rather than every year. This study on the rabies vaccine is showing that
immunity lasts much longer than anyone thought. Why did the vaccine
manufacturers not test how long their products work? They most likely
did and didn't report it. This will cost them quite a lot of money as we
realize the injury done by yearly vaccines. Obviously you didn't
investigate this study at all or you would not have responded as you did.

That you didn't know that a immune defense can come about without
getting a vaccine is amazing to me! Wake up and smell the coffee!

In most states it was the vaccine companies that pushed to make rabies
vaccines mandatory and in most cases it was done where there were no
outbreaks of rabies at all or there were a small number of cases. Talk
about a conspiracy! That is easily proven by looking up government
records of rabies cases by year and cross referencing that with the date
the rabies laws went into existence.

Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:


What vaccine have you had that protects you for life? I am sure
that if you were exposed to say Polio you will fair better than
someone who never was vaccinated.

Why are you sure of that? No vaccine has ever had a double blind w
placebo study done on it so there is no proof that any of them work.

the Americas. In 1960, there were 2,525 cases of paralytic polio in
the United States. By 1965, there were 61.

In 1994, polio was declared eradicated in all of the Americas.

If that does not convince you then nothing will.

I do not have access to double blind studies on Polio I am sure they
exist somewhere.

Why are you sure? I'm supposed to take your word for it?

Or maybe the ethics comities did not have the heart to
conduct such trial.

Cervical cancer vaccine I can cite because I was involved with them.

16,000 women double blind, enjoy, now tell me there is no proof
that any of them work. In Australia medication subsidised double
blind studies are the very minimum requirement to get subsidy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=1


It's about time you bring anything to the table! We now have one study
on a vaccine. Yay!

I'd still not have any child of mine get that vaccine. It's dangerous.

There is an almost identical one for Gardisil.

Where is your study to say it is dangerous? I guess you don't need
evidence.


the Americas. In 1960, there were 2,525 cases of paralytic polio in
the United States. By 1965, there were 61. Safety.

In 1994, polio was declared eradicated in all of the Americas.

Do you really need more evidence?

The earliest known case of polio is 4,000 years old. Do you really
think that it just decided to disappear.

So you have no proof that vaccines work then. Polio was already
disappearing before the vaccine was given and the vaccine itself
caused many cases of polio.

According to conservative estimates, from 1955 to 1963 more than 98
million children and adults in the United States were exposed
inadvertently to live SV40 because of SV40-contaminated polio
vaccines. SV40 has been shown to be a potent oncogenic
deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) virus and in animal models, the
neoplasias induced by SV40 included primary brain cancers, malignant
mesotheliomas, bone tumors, and systemic lymphomas.

Even the most basic Google search will tell you that Polio is an RNA
virus. SV40 is DNA monkey virus not even remotely related to Polio.
Your link DID NOT MENTION THE POLIO VACCINE AT ALL !!

Yeah, it did. The virus was in the polio vaccine. Read much?

Obviously better than you. Go to the link type Ctrl F and search for
Polio on that page - You will not find it.



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...3acd8ef1f04399


Vaccination Myth #6:

"Polio was one of the clearly great vaccination success stories..."

...or was it?

Six New England states reported increases in polio one year after the
Salk vaccine was introduced, ranging from more than doubling in
Vermont to Massachusetts' astounding increase of 642%; other states
reported increases as well.

The incidence in Wisconsin increased by a factor of five. Idaho and
Utah actually halted vaccination due to the increased incidence and
death rate. In 1959, 77.5% of Massachusetts' paralytic cases had
received 3 doses of IPV (injected polio vaccine).

During 1962 U.S. Congressional hearings, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head
of the Dept. of Biostatistics for the University of North Carolina
School of Public Health, testified that not only did the cases of
polio increase substantially after mandatory vaccinations -- a 50%
increase from 1957 to 1958, and an 80% increase from 1958 to 1959-but
that the statistics were deliberately manipulated by the Public
Health Service to give the opposite impression.

It is important to understand that the polio vaccine was not
universally accepted, at least initially. Despite this, polio
declined both in European countries that refused mass vaccination as
well as in those that employed it.

According to researcher-author Dr. Viera Scheibner, 90% of polio
cases were eliminated from statistics by health authorities'
redefinition of the disease when the vaccine was introduced, while in
reality the Salk vaccine was continuing to cause paralytic polio in
several countries at a time when there were no epidemics being caused
by the wild virus.

For example, cases of viral and aseptic meningitis, which have
symptoms similar to polio, were routinely diagnosed and recorded as
polio before the vaccine, but were distinguished and removed from
polio statistics after the vaccine.

Also, the number of cases needed to declare an epidemic was raised
from 20 to 35, and the requirement for inclusion in paralysis
statistics was changed from symptoms that lasted for 24 hours to
symptoms lasting 60 days (many polio victims' paralysis was temporary).

It is no wonder that polio decreased radically after vaccines-at
least on paper. In 1985, the CDC reported that 87% of the cases of
polio in the US between 1973 and 1983 were caused by the vaccine, and
later declared that all but a few imported cases since were caused by
the vaccine-and most of the imported cases occurred in fully
vaccinated individuals.

Jonas Salk, inventor of the IPV, testified before a Senate
subcommittee that nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused
by the oral polio vaccine.
Cite please 8 cases per year as opposed to 2,525 is still a victory.
For an early vaccine that has since been vastly improved.

With no proof the vaccine caused the "victory" and much pointing out
that it was not the vaccine at all.



At a workshop on polio vaccines sponsored by the Institute of
Medicine and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr.
Samuel Katz of Duke University cited the estimated 8-10 annual US
cases of vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) in people who have
taken the oral polio vaccine, and the [four year] absence of wild
polio from the western hemisphere.

Jessica Scheer of the National Rehabilitation Hospital Research
Center in Washington, D.C., pointed out that most parents are unaware
that polio vaccination in this country entails "a small number of
human sacrifices each year."

Compounding this contradiction are low adverse event reporting and
the NVIC's experiences with confirming and correcting misdiagnoses of
vaccine reactions, which suggest that the actual number of VAPP
"sacrifices" may be 10 to 100 times higher than that cited by the
CDC. For these reasons, the live polio virus is no longer in
widespread use.

To be sure, polio as it was known in the first half of the 20th
century does not exist today. However, declines following polio peaks
in the late 1940's and early 1950's had been underway again for a
period of years by the time the vaccine was introduced.

Vaccination Truth #6:

"The polio vaccine temporarily reversed disease declines that were
underway before the vaccine was introduced; this fact was
deliberately covered up by health authorities. In Europe, polio
declined in countries that both embraced and rejected the vaccine."
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...ne-myths2.aspx


You believe what you what to believe. I am old enough to remember
the crippled people hobbling around from Polio.

And?

If you what to believe that
a virus that has been around for at least 4,000 years suddenly
decided to leave the western world of its own accord. Just at the
time when a vaccine arrived then go with God.

You'd think that with your training you'd actually see the truth. Back
to the Vaccine Seminar. Dodd believes vaccines work but that they cause
harm when repeated each year. Almost every state has changed their
rabies vaccine laws so that animals are vaccinated every three years
rather than every year. This study on the rabies vaccine is showing that
immunity lasts much longer than anyone thought. Why did the vaccine
manufacturers not test how long their products work? They most likely
did and didn't report it. This will cost them quite a lot of money as we
realize the injury done by yearly vaccines. Obviously you didn't
investigate this study at all or you would not have responded as you did.

The Immune System are designed to be challenged frequently. Auto
immune diseases such as Asthma are found more often in children that are
not challenged. Children that go to daycare are less likely to develop
Asthma than those who do not.


That you didn't know that a immune defense can come about without
getting a vaccine is amazing to me! Wake up and smell the coffee!


WHO SAID THAT

I knew that you can have immune defence with out being vaccinated.

There only two ways that you can have SOME immune defence without
vaccination.

1. Dog has been exposed to a weakened strain of the virus.

2. Dog has antibodies have been passed on through mothers milk and the
mother has been vaccinated or exposed.

Antibody Titer is another factor. Just because the antibodies are
present in minute numbers DOES NOT mean you are immune.


In most states it was the vaccine companies that pushed to make rabies
vaccines mandatory and in most cases it was done where there were no
outbreaks of rabies at all or there were a small number of cases. Talk
about a conspiracy! That is easily proven by looking up government
records of rabies cases by year and cross referencing that with the date
the rabies laws went into existence.

Yeah Yeah Yeah the Government is out to spend money to harm you.
Vaccines don't work. It is just a big conspiracy.

You find one looney vet that supports your view and ignore the thousands
that disagree.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ You will find plenty of double bind
vaccine studies here.

To me I cannot be bothered arguing you have not answered any of my
questions such as Why after 4000 years did Polio all but disappear at
the very same time that vaccines were introduced?

To me it is like trying to argue with a flat earther. You want to put
your family in danger go ahead.

Like these Amish
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101301733.html

I would not like to be you when you have to explain to your son that has
been crippled by Polio or your daughter that develops Cervical cancer
that there was a prevention but you chose not to use it despite the
mountain of evidence supporting it.

Avid Fan wrote:

To me it is like trying to argue with a flat earther. You want to put
your family in danger go ahead.

Like these Amish
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101301733.html

And that article says "The virus that all four children are carrying is
derived from the oral polio vaccine."

Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:

To me it is like trying to argue with a flat earther. You want to put
your family in danger go ahead.

Like these Amish
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101301733.html


And that article says "The virus that all four children are carrying is
derived from the oral polio vaccine."

Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

Children NOT vaccinated. The strain probably came from a third world
country where they still use a weak live oral vaccine. Probably the
reason they were not paralysed.

You want to test it out? Take your un-vaccinated children to Nepal.

Avid Fan wrote:
Char wrote:
Avid Fan wrote:

To me it is like trying to argue with a flat earther. You want to
put your family in danger go ahead.

Like these Amish
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101301733.html



And that article says "The virus that all four children are carrying
is derived from the oral polio vaccine."

Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

Children NOT vaccinated. The strain probably came from a third world
country where they still use a weak live oral vaccine. Probably the
reason they were not paralysed.

You want to test it out? Take your un-vaccinated children to Nepal.

So these Amish kids took a trip to a third world country to get sick? I
highly doubt that.

I do not have access to double blind studies on Polio I am sure
they
exist somewhere. Or maybe the ethics comities did not have the heart
to
conduct such trial.

If I recall my science history accurately, the double blinded studies
that Salk did were in simians.

Reading thread with interest.....

Linda E. Hungerford, M.D.

Linda Hungerford wrote:
I do not have access to double blind studies on Polio I am sure
they
exist somewhere. Or maybe the ethics comities did not have the heart
to
conduct such trial.

If I recall my science history accurately, the double blinded studies
that Salk did were in simians.

Reading thread with interest.....

Linda E. Hungerford, M.D.

The same Linda Hungerford that doesn't know what a homeopathic remedy is
yet condemns them?

"Anyone trying to treat this disease solely with homeopathic remedies
will be taking their dog's life into their own hands. Supplement all
you want to, but do not cast aside veterinary intervention for
Addison's Disease."

6 Continuing Education Units for Dog Trainers

Drs. W. Jean Dodds and Ronald Schultz Vaccine Seminar March 28th in San Diego, CA to benefit The Rabies Challenge Fund has just been certified to give 6 CCPDT Continuing Education Units to dog trainers. Learn more at Safer Pet Vaccination and Health Seminar Benefiting the Rabies Challenge Fund .

__________________
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Founder, Co-Trustee
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
www.RabiesChallengeFund.org

DVD of The 2010 Safer Pet Vaccination Seminar is available Please sign up below if you are . Edited by event organizer, Jan Rasmusen, this 1 hour 59 minute DVD contains the live presentation by W. Jean Dodds, DVM. Included is the 2010 Q & A session with Dr. Dodds and vaccine scientist Ronald D. Schultz, PhD, plus footage from the 2009 NE Rabies Challenge Fund Benefit Seminar and audio interview with Dr. Dodds about canine thyroid disease. The DVD comes with a 57-page Program Guide with articles by Dodds and Schultz, plus a year's free subscription to Dogs Naturally Magazine on-line.

__________________
Kris L. Christine
Founder, Co-Trustee
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
www.RabiesChallengeFund.org