Hi,

Could use some advance advice. We have 2 established pets an are looking to
add a 2nd dog. The existing dog can't be 'free fed' so the new one will be
fed the same schedule. (roughy 12 hour feedings with a nooner noshe).

Logisticaly we look to fed the new dog in the hall or bathrom (with a baby
gate to prevent the bigger established one from eatiung her food up) for
starters. Any problems with this?

cshenk wrote:

Hi,

Could use some advance advice. We have 2 established pets an are looking to
add a 2nd dog.

Two pets but adding a second dog, is the other pet a cat, a rodent, a
horse?

The existing dog can't be 'free fed' so the new one will be
fed the same schedule. (roughy 12 hour feedings with a nooner noshe).

We had the opposite experience. Our initial dog could be free fed, but
our second dog is a lab mix that will eat anything available. We went
for feeding in dog pens. What you are suggesting could work, but
requires a sturdy gate in a good location. We are actually using a baby
gate to isolate our cat from the dogs.

Logisticaly we look to fed the new dog in the hall or bathrom (with a baby
gate to prevent the bigger established one from eatiung her food up) for
starters. Any problems with this?




--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

The existing dog can't be 'free fed' so the new one will be
fed the same schedule. (roughy 12 hour feedings with a nooner noshe).

I don't think I've had any dog that could be free fed. Either they're
a vacuum, or they are a fussy eater and need to be monitored to be
sure they're eating enough to keep their weight up.

We went for feeding in dog pens.

An excellent idea.

We are actually using a baby gate to isolate our cat from the dogs.

Babygates are an excellent dog management tool. If the dogs have been
raised with them from puppyhood, they seem to respect them as a matter
of course, even if they could easily jump them as an adult. Often
they don't even need to be latched in, just set "long" and leaned
against a door opening as a reminder (though admittedly I've not been
using them to resist prey drive).

Logisticaly we look to fed the new dog in the hall or bathrom (with a baby
gate to prevent the bigger established one from eatiung her food up) for
starters. *Any problems with this?

As long as you're there to keep an eye on things until you get a feel
for how it goes, I think you'll be fine. We use two sides of a
kitchen counter much the same way, each dog is fed on their side and
we can run interference if needed if they try to come around before
the other is done.

For us, it was more of an issue with a previous dog who was a fussy
eater, the other dog would come around and hassle her until she was
done. We'd have to put the food up if she just walked away. With our
new one they finish about the same time and swap places to look for
crumbs...

--Glenn Lyford

We have a "designated area" for each of our four dogs..which we acquired
over a period of 11 years. The last dog we got was much a larger breed
than the other three and a puppy, so the first few months we baby-gated
off a hallway and fed him there until he got a bit more mature and had
better manners. Now each dog is fed at the same time and the same type
food...and each has their own space in different rooms (although all but
one can see the others from where they are eating.) For nearly a year
they pretty much all stuck to their own bowls...but our alpha female
enjoys playing "musical bowls" and got the others to play with her. Now
they all rotate around to each other's bowls and trade off back and
forth. They seem fine with sharing...and the alpha female and the big
young bulldog look out for the elderly dog and also the simple minded
one, so none are short changed. They all finish close to the same time.
It shouldn't take more than a couple of months for you new guy to
adjust, and for your established dog to adapt. Good luck!!

Emma

"William Clodius" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Hi,

Could use some advance advice. We have 2 established pets an are looking
to
add a 2nd dog.

Two pets but adding a second dog, is the other pet a cat, a rodent, a
horse?

Sorry, my fault for not giving enogh info. Other pet is a cat who is a
largely non-issue on this. She feeds on top of a 5ft bookcase he dog (soon
to be dogs) can not reach.

The existing dog can't be 'free fed' so the new one will be
fed the same schedule. (roughy 12 hour feedings with a nooner noshe).

We had the opposite experience. Our initial dog could be free fed, but
our second dog is a lab mix that will eat anything available. We went
for feeding in dog pens. What you are suggesting could work, but
requires a sturdy gate in a good location. We are actually using a baby
gate to isolate our cat from the dogs.

My best guess is this time we need a solid dog separation at feeding?
Initial dog will not nuzzle a baby gate even partly across a 'door' . Yeah,
I got a 50lb dog afraid to nuzzle a baby gate just propped againat the walll
with a 4 inch free gap.

cshenk wrote:

"William Clodius" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Hi,

Could use some advance advice. We have 2 established pets an are looking
to
add a 2nd dog.

Two pets but adding a second dog, is the other pet a cat, a rodent, a
horse?

Sorry, my fault for not giving enogh info. Other pet is a cat who is a
largely non-issue on this. She feeds on top of a 5ft bookcase he dog (soon
to be dogs) can not reach.
snip
A cat is always a potential issue with dogs. Be certain to give it an
escape room. If getting an adolescent or test with cats first, and be
careful.

--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

"William Clodius" wrote
cshenk wrote:
Could use some advance advice. We have 2 established pets an are
looking
to add a 2nd dog.

BTW, thank you to all the rest of the group who helped!

Two pets but adding a second dog, is the other pet a cat, a rodent, a
horse?

Sorry, my fault for not giving enogh info. Other pet is a cat who is a
largely non-issue on this. She feeds on top of a 5ft bookcase he dog
(soon
to be dogs) can not reach.

A cat is always a potential issue with dogs. Be certain to give it an
escape room. If getting an adolescent or test with cats first, and be
careful.

Thats totally true. Grin, I'm a bit of an odd mix here perhaps. See, I'm a
very experienced cat person. Don's a very experienced Dog person. He
learned cats from me when we were dual military (you just can't both have
duty and away from the house for 24-36 hours with a dog inside. Cats are
not happy at that, but with plenty of food and water and change the cat
litter first, they can handle it).

Now that I am retired, I am learning dogs and while no expert at all, I ask
questions when unsure.

Many people get a rude suprise (sadly can be a deadly one) when thinking
'awww, such a cute kitty and the doggie is so nicely gentle' and don't
remember that cats pretty much are prey in dogs eyes often enough. Some
breeds are a bit more prone to this than others.

Although you can have exceptions *real easy* the best bets on getting them
to mix is if they were both raised witht he other type from 'babyhood'
though it isnt essential it be the same one. Daisy-cat and Cash-pup here
are both rescue pets and met the first time at about age 2 for both. Both
showed strongly that they liked the other breed and would play with them
after a bit of intro time.

In this case, it's the extreme. I found the cat sleeping in sin with the
dog on (what was it?) day 2 or 3 of arriving here. They got here same day.
That is *not* normal nor should it be expected. In fact, 'tolerance'
without attacks is the best you should expect in general. Cash-pup and
Daisy-cat exceed that but it is very rare. It may well be because we sorta
have a cat and a dog expert here? It was *definately* related however to
the personality of both pets as well.

I've seen advice on how to add a cat to a dog household. My personal
impression was most of it was written by someone who didnt have a *clue*
about cats. Stupid stuff like locking the cat in a room for 3-4 months and
wait for the cat to almost claw their way out to just 'dump them together
first day with no hiding space for the cat then hold it in the dogs face
(chomp).

Sorry for being opinionated, but I won't even bother with web sites on how
to intro 'Apple' (second dog, pit bull mix that likes to play with cats if
they will play and doesnt damage them). It's just easy. Every room will
have several hidy-holes for a bit and high spots the cat can jump to.
Adjustment period expected. Grin,she's the alpha among the 4foots.

Conversely on the alpha battle (if Apple wants to be alpha over the queen
cat) she's gonna find out Cash is very protective of his little buddy. If
'Apple' just wants to be alpha over him, he's just gonna wag tail and
continue to be bottom of the rung. I'm more worried about Daisy-cat and
Apple-pup on that issue.

"William Clodius" wrote
cshenk wrote:

(On adding new dog to existing dog-cat home)

Sorry for being opinionated, but I won't even bother with web sites on how
to intro 'Apple' (second dog, pit bull mix that likes to play with cats if
they will play and doesnt damage them). It's just easy. Every room will
have several hidy-holes for a bit and high spots the cat can jump to.
Adjustment period expected. Grin,she's the alpha among the 4foots.
(experienced cat person married to experienced Dog person, adding dog this
time is easy when it comes to the cat).

Follow-up. Apple has now been with the Foster family for a little over a
week. Forget any worries about the cat. I was right. She's playing with
them actively in a totally friendly way, basically letting them climb all
over her or chase her around the room. (She plays along and lets them chase
her).

New ones though as she develops. I ran these by my husband (dog
experienced, has hand raised some 10 from puppy-hood, mostly large breeds
like German Shepards, wolf hounds, Labs, Weimeriner. I'll put his
assessments at the bottom.)

I'd appreciate feedback on these. I am still learning about dogs which my
husband says never stops.

1.) Apple is a bit of a chewer. So far, only things like bedroom slippers.
Not sofas and such. Was advised today we will need to put sneakers and
shoes up. Also, they think she is younger than the 1.5yo estimate due to
some other behaviors. My guesses:

A.-She's still in puppy phase, possibly 1 year old, maybe a little less (One
estimate for Cash-pup had him at 3.5 years, turned out by best guess to be
1.5). Such things are part of youth and proper training will normally work.
Hehe even if it ends up she trains us to keep shoes up! Lots of soft chewy
toys and hope Cash-pup doesnt have a problem sharing them. He normally
destroys such in short order so we'll have to work that one out.

B.-Possibly former owners never left shoes down on the floor so she's never
been trained to not chew them?

C.-Also, lets add bored dogs will do things to get attention (and she want
*human* interaction at levels the foster home with her being 1 of 5 dogs,
just may not have). Even if 1 and/or 2 aren't true, this one may be.

Husband: Could be all 3 but he banks on A and C combined and that it's
easily worked out. Training and proper attention so she feels loved for
herself and not just as part of the pack is the likely answer. That and fun
chewy things she knows she can play with.

2.) Apple has had some peeing incidents inside the house. She's also
getting over a 'flu' (was in the main kennels for a bit and picked it up
there, finishes meds Wednesday). Lets add she's in heat (spaying may be
Thursday). They havent been extravagant levels and the foster mom is now
setting a schedule to take her out which seems to be working.

A.-See above, she's sick, in heat, and possibly younger than 1.5. I know
nothing about 'heat' really (oh I know what it is but thats about it). My
impression is she can't 'hold it as well' just now. Self solving if so.

B.- Apple's owners may have had a doggie door although in this area that's
fairly rare and will not be added here because we can't keep the resurrected
semi-feral cat inside. (I do not desire any cat debate on keeping them
inside. This is a dog newsgroup). If so, she never had to 'hold it'.
Training can solve this.

C.- She may never have been fully house trained. She's possibly younger and
no one knows how long she was 'lost' before the kennels found her loose.
Training can solve this.

Husband- Unlikely to be B (due to area) but C is possible if they just put
her in the yard during the day when out at work or something. A is most
likely and he recalls a 4 YO bitch when he was a kid in the 50's (they didnt
spay then very often) who did that when in heat. They never did fix that
long ago dog's behavior when in heat so just kept her in a closed large shed
on the farm when it was 'that time'. Other bitches he's had sometimes made
'mistakes' when younger but grew out of it. (later ones were spayed).
Agrees training (and her pending spay job) will fix this.

I'd love to see if the rest here agree with what we seem to see? I visit
Apple tomorrow for the first time and if all goes well, might be able to
take her home next weekend. Even if she gets spayed on Thursday (she will
heal better here than as part of a pack of 5 dogs and I think it's 4 cats).

Teach me?

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:30:06 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

"William Clodius" wrote
cshenk wrote:

(On adding new dog to existing dog-cat home)

Sorry for being opinionated, but I won't even bother with web sites on how
to intro 'Apple' (second dog, pit bull mix that likes to play with cats if
they will play and doesnt damage them). It's just easy. Every room will
have several hidy-holes for a bit and high spots the cat can jump to.
Adjustment period expected. Grin,she's the alpha among the 4foots.
(experienced cat person married to experienced Dog person, adding dog this
time is easy when it comes to the cat).

Follow-up. Apple has now been with the Foster family for a little over a
week. Forget any worries about the cat. I was right. She's playing with
them actively in a totally friendly way, basically letting them climb all
over her or chase her around the room. (She plays along and lets them chase
her).

New ones though as she develops. I ran these by my husband (dog
experienced, has hand raised some 10 from puppy-hood, mostly large breeds
like German Shepards, wolf hounds, Labs, Weimeriner. I'll put his
assessments at the bottom.)

I'd appreciate feedback on these. I am still learning about dogs which my
husband says never stops.

1.) Apple is a bit of a chewer. So far, only things like bedroom slippers.
Not sofas and such. Was advised today we will need to put sneakers and
shoes up. Also, they think she is younger than the 1.5yo estimate due to
some other behaviors. My guesses:

A.-She's still in puppy phase, possibly 1 year old, maybe a little less (One
estimate for Cash-pup had him at 3.5 years, turned out by best guess to be
1.5). Such things are part of youth and proper training will normally work.
Hehe even if it ends up she trains us to keep shoes up! Lots of soft chewy
toys and hope Cash-pup doesnt have a problem sharing them. He normally
destroys such in short order so we'll have to work that one out.

B.-Possibly former owners never left shoes down on the floor so she's never
been trained to not chew them?

C.-Also, lets add bored dogs will do things to get attention (and she want
*human* interaction at levels the foster home with her being 1 of 5 dogs,
just may not have). Even if 1 and/or 2 aren't true, this one may be.

Husband: Could be all 3 but he banks on A and C combined and that it's
easily worked out. Training and proper attention so she feels loved for
herself and not just as part of the pack is the likely answer. That and fun
chewy things she knows she can play with.

2.) Apple has had some peeing incidents inside the house. She's also
getting over a 'flu' (was in the main kennels for a bit and picked it up
there, finishes meds Wednesday). Lets add she's in heat (spaying may be
Thursday). They havent been extravagant levels and the foster mom is now
setting a schedule to take her out which seems to be working.

A.-See above, she's sick, in heat, and possibly younger than 1.5. I know
nothing about 'heat' really (oh I know what it is but thats about it). My
impression is she can't 'hold it as well' just now. Self solving if so.

B.- Apple's owners may have had a doggie door although in this area that's
fairly rare and will not be added here because we can't keep the resurrected
semi-feral cat inside. (I do not desire any cat debate on keeping them
inside. This is a dog newsgroup). If so, she never had to 'hold it'.
Training can solve this.

C.- She may never have been fully house trained. She's possibly younger and
no one knows how long she was 'lost' before the kennels found her loose.
Training can solve this.

Husband- Unlikely to be B (due to area) but C is possible if they just put
her in the yard during the day when out at work or something. A is most
likely and he recalls a 4 YO bitch when he was a kid in the 50's (they didnt
spay then very often) who did that when in heat. They never did fix that
long ago dog's behavior when in heat so just kept her in a closed large shed
on the farm when it was 'that time'. Other bitches he's had sometimes made
'mistakes' when younger but grew out of it. (later ones were spayed).
Agrees training (and her pending spay job) will fix this.

I'd love to see if the rest here agree with what we seem to see? I visit
Apple tomorrow for the first time and if all goes well, might be able to
take her home next weekend. Even if she gets spayed on Thursday (she will
heal better here than as part of a pack of 5 dogs and I think it's 4 cats).

Teach me?

I just have a couple of general comments. I think you may be
overthinking/overanalyzing some of this. Young dogs chew because it's
what dogs do. They do it to release tension, when they're bored,
because they're teething, etc. Give her some chew toys. Not stuffies
she can shred, but toys that are meant for chewing such as Nylabones.

The most common and obvious reason for a young dog peeing in the house
is that it's not housebroken. I didn't get whether this dog's
background is known - did she live in a house? - but that knowledge is
not necessary to fix the problem. Put her on a schedule, praise her
when she potties outside, supervise her so that she doesn't have the
opportunity to have an accident indoors.

It can be interesting to try to figure out the reasons for canine
behavior problems, but it's not always possible to be sure of them
because dogs can't talk. In any case, the reason for a dog behaving a
certain way is not necessarily critical to changing the behavior.
Good luck with Apple.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

I'd appreciate feedback on these. I am still learning about dogs which my
husband says never stops.

(snippies made)

1.) Apple is a bit of a chewer. So far, only things like bedroom
slippers.

2.) Apple has had some peeing incidents inside the house.
They havent been extravagant levels and the foster mom is now
setting a schedule to take her out which seems to be working.

I just have a couple of general comments. I think you may be
overthinking/overanalyzing some of this.

Grin, very possibly. It's a personaility thing. I'm a Data Analyst by
trade.

Young dogs chew because it's
what dogs do. They do it to release tension, when they're bored,
because they're teething, etc. Give her some chew toys. Not stuffies
she can shred, but toys that are meant for chewing such as Nylabones.

Pretty much what we thought. Yes, puppies chew.

The most common and obvious reason for a young dog peeing in the house
is that it's not housebroken. I didn't get whether this dog's
background is known - did she live in a house?

She didnt have any incidents early days in foster care and like rescues in
general, background unknown. I'd say combo of sickness and 'incompleted
house training' seems it.

- but that knowledge is
not necessary to fix the problem. Put her on a schedule, praise her
when she potties outside, supervise her so that she doesn't have the
opportunity to have an accident indoors.

Yup. Training needed. Easily done.

It can be interesting to try to figure out the reasons for canine
behavior problems, but it's not always possible to be sure of them
because dogs can't talk. In any case, the reason for a dog behaving a
certain way is not necessarily critical to changing the behavior.

Yup! It's nothing in either issue we can't train her around.

Good luck with Apple.

Thanks!