We have never had a male dog before. This one is new to us, four years
old and is the brother of a wonderfully clever, intelligent bitch we
had - which started to collapse at two years of age and eventually had
to be put down at just three years of age.

We adopted it five weeks ago and it has settled in nicely, clean, well
behaved, he even tidies up his own toys. Last year he was involved in
some sort of minor accident (probably with a car), when he got out and
needed the treatment of a vet, which is really all we know about him.

He clings to my wife, follows her where ever she goes. He comes to me
briefly when I arrive home, seems not at all wary of me after which
will have no more to do with me -though he often hangs around at a
distance from me. If invited closer, he moves quickly away as if
frightened of me. One minute absolutely friendly the next frightened.

He is also very careful not to allow himself to get trapped in a room
with me, by staying close by the door. He will happily go for a walk
with me alone, comes back immediately when called, fine with other dogs
of both sexes. If he meets a small dog, he lies flat on the ground - I
suppose so as not to frighten the other dog. I'm told he just does
these things naturally and has never been taught anything at all.

A suggestion is that the only human male he has had in his life is my
grandson and when he is around, he clings to him.

I've been around dogs most of my life and have never had one which has
been at all wary or suspicious of me like this. I give him his meals,
tit-bits and take him out on all of his walks, yet he is reluctant to
be near me - what's going on?

His only other oddity, is that he really does not like going out in the
weather or by himself in the garden for a pee. He waits until almost
bursting point.



--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote

had - which started to collapse at two years of age and eventually had to
be put down at just three years of age.

Sorry to hear that. It happens.

He is also very careful not to allow himself to get trapped in a room with
me, by staying close by the door. He will happily go for a walk with me
alone, comes back immediately when called, fine with other dogs of both
sexes. If he meets a small dog, he lies flat on the ground - I suppose so
as not to frighten the other dog. I'm told he just does these things
naturally and has never been taught anything at all.

I am not as experienced as folks here but I know what it *sounds like* to
me.

It seems like some sort of alpha thing. Like he has a fine understanding of
it and 'you are it'. If I got it right, he's *delighted* to have you pay
attention to him as a worthy member of the 'pack' (your family) and is
submissive to what he thinks you want. He's still working it out and wants
to make sure you want him in your pack and on extra good behavior.

On the other, Smile, friendly well socialized dogs who like to play with
other dogs, will lay on the ground when meeting a much smaller one. Think
of it like meeting a new co-worker of a distinctly marked different height.
You both take a seat and just meet and greet right? At least once you
notice their neck seems in pain peering up at ya (grin). Any dog who really
wants to 'say hello' if 20 or more inches at the shoulder will do this with
say, a peke who's 6 at the shoulder (if that). Doesnt have to be that
radical of a difference. I've seen that one all my life. If the smaller one
is a huge amount off and the bigger one wants to be friendly, they will drop
down and 'say hello, I dont bite, come sniff me and see'. I think this
second set doesnt have anything to do with pack doninance but just pure
puppy fun between them.

I'm still learning but that is the best I can see. Hope it helps!

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:38:11 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote

had - which started to collapse at two years of age and eventually had to
be put down at just three years of age.

Sorry to hear that. It happens.

He is also very careful not to allow himself to get trapped in a room with
me, by staying close by the door. He will happily go for a walk with me
alone, comes back immediately when called, fine with other dogs of both
sexes. If he meets a small dog, he lies flat on the ground - I suppose so
as not to frighten the other dog. I'm told he just does these things
naturally and has never been taught anything at all.

I am not as experienced as folks here but I know what it *sounds like* to
me.

It seems like some sort of alpha thing. Like he has a fine understanding of
it and 'you are it'. If I got it right, he's *delighted* to have you pay
attention to him as a worthy member of the 'pack' (your family) and is
submissive to what he thinks you want. He's still working it out and wants
to make sure you want him in your pack and on extra good behavior.

On the other, Smile, friendly well socialized dogs who like to play with
other dogs, will lay on the ground when meeting a much smaller one. Think
of it like meeting a new co-worker of a distinctly marked different height.
You both take a seat and just meet and greet right? At least once you
notice their neck seems in pain peering up at ya (grin). Any dog who really
wants to 'say hello' if 20 or more inches at the shoulder will do this with
say, a peke who's 6 at the shoulder (if that). Doesnt have to be that
radical of a difference. I've seen that one all my life. If the smaller one
is a huge amount off and the bigger one wants to be friendly, they will drop
down and 'say hello, I dont bite, come sniff me and see'. I think this
second set doesnt have anything to do with pack doninance but just pure
puppy fun between them.

Are you saying that all friendly, well-socialized dogs will lie on the
ground when they meet a much smaller dog? If so, I strongly disagree.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

We have never had a male dog before. This one is new to us, four years
old and is the brother of a wonderfully clever, intelligent bitch we
had - which started to collapse at two years of age and eventually had
to be put down at just three years of age.
Sorry to hear that.

snip
He clings to my wife, follows her where ever she goes. He comes to me
briefly when I arrive home, seems not at all wary of me after which
will have no more to do with me -though he often hangs around at a
distance from me. If invited closer, he moves quickly away as if
frightened of me. One minute absolutely friendly the next frightened.


This suggest to me he has had a bad experience with someone, probably a
man, that you somehow resemble. Give him time. Don't make a big deal
about his fearfulness, either by confronting it or trying to alleviate
it. If you accept him, he is more likely to accept you.

He is also very careful not to allow himself to get trapped in a room
with me, by staying close by the door. He will happily go for a walk
with me alone, comes back immediately when called, fine with other dogs
of both sexes. If he meets a small dog, he lies flat on the ground - I
suppose so as not to frighten the other dog. I'm told he just does
these things naturally and has never been taught anything at all.

To some extent tthis sounds like typical border collie behavior. The
ones I know (albeit not well) seem to go to the ground, particularly
when herding, more often than other breeds. But as you had his sister
and are noticing it in him when you didn't with her, I must be mistaken.

A suggestion is that the only human male he has had in his life is my
grandson and when he is around, he clings to him.

I've been around dogs most of my life and have never had one which has
been at all wary or suspicious of me like this. I give him his meals,
tit-bits and take him out on all of his walks, yet he is reluctant to
be near me - what's going on?

Work with him on obediance. Getting him to see that you are a good
leader will help with his confidence, without mking it obvious that that
is your concern.

His only other oddity, is that he really does not like going out in the
weather or by himself in the garden for a pee. He waits until almost
bursting point.


--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

Are you saying that all friendly, well-socialized dogs will lie on the
ground when they meet a much smaller dog? If so, I strongly disagree.

No, not always but it's common enough. Cash-pup does it too when he wants
to commune with a smaller one (butt up in air, down on front paws and
sniffing friendly then lickifies them).

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:10:31 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

Are you saying that all friendly, well-socialized dogs will lie on the
ground when they meet a much smaller dog? If so, I strongly disagree.

No, not always but it's common enough. Cash-pup does it too when he wants
to commune with a smaller one (butt up in air, down on front paws and
sniffing friendly then lickifies them).

I have *never* seen in it over 15 years of rescue, with somewhere in
the neighborhood of 200 dogs going through here. A larger dog
play-bowing, yes. But lying down on the ground to say hello? No.
Lying on the ground by another dog, or a human, is a submissive
behavior.

Now, as Bill Clodius said, in this case it could be breed-related.
Border collies tend to have a creep that's much closer to the ground
than other breeds. They also can have different ways of thinking and
behaving, and since my total experience with BCs is fostering one
rather atypical BC for about a month, I didn't respond to the OP's
post. But to say that most well-socialized dogs typically lie down
when they meet other dogs is simply incorrect.