On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:28:23 -0500, Char
wrote:


Why does he need to be bathed that regularly if he doesn't spend much
time outside? Bathing too often can cause dry skin.



The op never said she washed her dog once a week, she asked if that was
a good time frame.

And I asked why it was necessary to bathe that often.

Why ask her when she is the one asking basically the same question? She
came here for information, not drilling.

It was a legitimate question, and I'm not the only one who asked it.
I wondered whether someone had told the OP that dogs need to be bathed
that often, or if the dog had an odor (which can be a sign of a health
problem).

It wasn't an answer, it was a question, to someone that has just stated
they don't know the answer. Duh!

Once again, you need to read for comprehension. I didn't ask the OP
the same question s/he posed to the newgroup.

Don't post here at all if you can't be nice to people.

With all respect due to you, Char, **** off.

On 2/28/2010 11:31 AM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote
actony1 wrote:

I have a small Chihuahua, and I was wondering how often I should
bathe
him. He doesn't spend a whole lot of time outside. He is only out
there long enough to use the bathroom then he is right back in. Is
once
a week too often, or not enough?

The op never said she washed her dog once a week, she asked if that was
a good time frame.

Char, how often do you bathe yours? Don's more of the mind that it's 'as
needed' unless a critical part of flea or tick control (or the dog
wanders through a mud puddle).

I agree with that. As I don't use any pesticides on my dogs or in my
house, or in the yard for that matter baths can be a way to kill some
fleas. They can hurt your dog, your kids, and you. Do you really believe
that all of a sudden when the pesticide dries it's ok for children to
touch the dog? Of course not! And it's even worse for the dog who has
absorbed the pesticides into it's body.

In our case, flea protection is advantix
and some other one that occasionally the vet has cheaper but works as
well. We dont use OTC flea meds.

Advantix is a pesticide and hurts dogs. I don't use any pesticides at
all and most times I'm flea free. I usually use diatomaceous earth,
vacuum a lot and use baths too.

I used Advantage for years till I figured out there were safer ways to
be flea free. It was a huge leap for me and it does take a little work
but to know I've significantly reduced the chance of cancer in my whole
family is well worth it.


When we do wash the dog (or cat, which current one has never needed
being a neater soul), it's a very old remedy from a vet.
Head-n-shoulders (Kills fleas on contact, lasts as a flea killer for
about 4-5 days, kills most of the eggs).

Any lathering soap will kill fleas. I use Dawn dish soap if fleas are
real bad. I use an organic soap most of the time. Following up with
diatomaceous earth around the house and just vacuuming a lot just about
does it. I think the extra work is worth the peace of mind I get.


Then brush carefully with just
a very light coat of olive oil on the comb/brush (helps the dryness).

Yeah but doesn't it attract dirt? I guess if it's just a pinch here and
there it would work well.

We
have some stuff in the cabinet though now special for dogs that helps
their coat and skin not get too dry.

Dry coat hasnt been an issue for Cash-pup since after about a month with
us. I may not 'raw feed' but we do add natural fats to our pets foods
for their coats. They particularily like duck fat (who wouldnt!) and are
very fond of pork fat rendered from a southern slow cooked pork shoulder.

Actually cooking the fat makes it not nearly as good for the dog as if
you'd give it raw. You are on to a good idea, you just need to feed it
in a better form.

http://www.thewholedog.org/artcookedfood.html
"It should be well understood and recognized in scientific literature
that heat breaks down vitamins, amino acids and produces undesirable
cross-linkages in proteins, particularly in meat.

At 110 degrees Fahrenheit (approximately 43 degrees Centigrade), two of
the 8 essential amino acids, tryptophan and lysine, are destroyed.

When food is cooked above 117 degrees F for only three minutes or
longer,the following deleterious changes begin and progressively cause
increased nutritional damage as higher temperatures are applied over
prolonged periods of time:

*proteins coagulate
*high temperatures denature protein molecular structure, leading to
deficiency of some essential amino acids
*carbohydrates caramelize
*overly heated fats generate numerous carcinogens including acrolein,
nitrosamines, hydrocarbons, and benzopyrene (one of the most potent
cancer-causing agents known)
*natural fibers break down, cellulose is completely changed from its
natural condition: it loses its ability to sweep the alimentary canal clean
*30% to 50% of vitamins and minerals are destroyed
*100% of enzymes are damaged, the body's enzyme potential is depleted
which drains energy needed to maintain and repair tissue and organ
systems, thereby shortening the life span.

In my opinion, it is no coincidence that since 1950, as processed food
proliferated for both humans and pets, that cancer rates in the United
States have steadily increased and are now at the highest point in
history (for pets as well as humans). The effect from consuming overly
cooked food is minimal nutrition. The body is forced to raid its
dwindling supply of nutrient reserves and remains hungry for quality
nutrients after a typical meal This leads to further hunger even though
the stomach is full. The result can be chronic overeating and rampant
obesity now seen in our dogs as well as ourselves nationwide."

There is lots more at that link that is worth reading.


This BTW *IS* one of the spots where your 'raw feeding' is probably
better. Many folks overwash dogs (and cats) and have dry coat syndrome
due to not enough proper fats in the diet. Ok, kibble has 'fat' but it's
not the same type. Your pups I am guessing, never have this problem.
Mind dont either.


Yeah, we as a rule don't have dry skin problems except if the heat is on
a very long time. I'm in Florida so that is usually not a problem.
However, this winter was pretty chilly.

Raw fed dogs don't stink like kibble dogs do so they don't need a bath
as often. No bad breath, much less farts too. Raw is just a whole lot
easier on their digestive system because that is what it was made to
process.

"Char" wrote
cshenk asked:

Char, how often do you bathe yours? Don's more of the mind that it's 'as
needed' unless a critical part of flea or tick control (or the dog
wanders through a mud puddle).

I agree with that. As I don't use any pesticides on my dogs or in my
house, or in the yard for that matter baths can be a way to kill some
fleas. They can hurt your dog, your kids, and you. Do you really believe
that all of a sudden when the pesticide dries it's ok for children to
touch the dog? Of course not! And it's even worse for the dog who has
absorbed the pesticides into it's body.

Well, I can see how you feel and where it would come from. Still, we will
have to continue with our flea treatments as is. I've tried the
diatomaceous route and baths but it doesnt work here in our area. If you
were to google a map of 'highest flea problem spots in the USA' we'd be the
thick of the worst of it.

I use an organic one on the yard, and the vet stuff for the cat and dog once
a month. In cat's case it is also a heartworm preventive (Cash-pup gets a
monthly pill being a recovered heartworm victim).

Advantix is a pesticide and hurts dogs. I don't use any pesticides at all
and most times I'm flea free. I usually use diatomaceous earth, vacuum a
lot and use baths too.

I checked and a good bit of what goes on the yard (organic) is diatomaceous
earth mixed in with some sort of natural soap?

I'd be curious what yard treatment you have found? I may want to swap to it
and see if it works better. Must be organic (I'll use chemicals at need on
fleas here but I keep things as low as I can and the yard is shared by
squirrels and all sorts of wild life).

I used Advantage for years till I figured out there were safer ways to be
flea free. It was a huge leap for me and it does take a little work but to
know I've significantly reduced the chance of cancer in my whole family is
well worth it.

I'm happy for you! Do you have cats and if so, what did you find to work
for them? Frequent baths was my old method (I was trying to go pesticide
free, didnt work here for fleas so I'm the reverse route of you on that).
Oh, back then I had 4 indoor cats.

When we do wash the dog (or cat, which current one has never needed
being a neater soul), it's a very old remedy from a vet.
Head-n-shoulders (Kills fleas on contact, lasts as a flea killer for
about 4-5 days, kills most of the eggs).

Any lathering soap will kill fleas. I use Dawn dish soap if fleas are real
bad. I use an organic soap most of the time. Following up with
diatomaceous earth around the house and just vacuuming a lot just about
does it. I think the extra work is worth the peace of mind I get.

I used Octagon (I think that is the name) for a long time. It's organic but
doesnt strip the natural oils as much. Doesnt work as well as
head-n-shoulders and leaves a dryer skin but might be an option that suits
you better.

Then brush carefully with just
a very light coat of olive oil on the comb/brush (helps the dryness).

Yeah but doesn't it attract dirt? I guess if it's just a pinch here and
there it would work well.

I was mostly working with cats then (grin). Baths were due to fleas when I
was trying hard to be chemical free in a part of the world less suited to it
than most. Yes, it's just a drop or so worked gently into the coat.

(Side dive, Apple, the dog we have adopted and are awaiting the process to
take home, has dandruff from too frequent baths and improper coat care.
Patches of baldness show flea infestation issue pattern common here to any
untended pet. First we fix the coat issue with better feeding, then a
gentle bath with a knubby washcloth to help clear the undercoat and I'll
have to see what sort of lanolin sort of item might be good to help it heal,
or just go my old route).

Dry coat hasnt been an issue for Cash-pup since after about a month with
us. I may not 'raw feed' but we do add natural fats to our pets foods
for their coats. They particularily like duck fat (who wouldnt!) and are
very fond of pork fat rendered from a southern slow cooked pork shoulder.

Actually cooking the fat makes it not nearly as good for the dog as if
you'd give it raw. You are on to a good idea, you just need to feed it in
a better form.

Unfortunately we dont really have the meat eating syndrome here much to keep
fresh fats. When we do make a pork shoulder, we sliver some of that fat off
for the next 2-3 days and give them that. Cat won't eat fresh pork fat but
she likes fresh seafood fat (the little fatty spot inside a crab, she gets
one if we get 5-6 of the local blue crabs). I'm leery of fresh chicken fat
due to all the poultry issues. Fresh duck fat, yes, we chance that with her
and him.

Umm, we are not vegetarians, but we are a low meat eating family. Medical
issues mandate it. Because we eat less of it, we have the money to eat the
better types.

They *love* fresh ground beef from our own grinder. (since we eat little, we
get a bit upscale steak and grind our own). If it's a marbled cut, we take
some of the fat out for them right away.

(snips)

This BTW *IS* one of the spots where your 'raw feeding' is probably
better. Many folks overwash dogs (and cats) and have dry coat syndrome
due to not enough proper fats in the diet. Ok, kibble has 'fat' but it's
not the same type. Your pups I am guessing, never have this problem.
Mind dont either.

Yeah, we as a rule don't have dry skin problems except if the heat is on a
very long time. I'm in Florida so that is usually not a problem. However,
this winter was pretty chilly.

It's not as hot here. Heat tends to be relative though. I've lived enough
areas to learn that. Want real heat? Summer in Bahrain. ICK.

Raw fed dogs don't stink like kibble dogs do so they don't need a bath as
often. No bad breath, much less farts too. Raw is just a whole lot easier
on their digestive system because that is what it was made to process.

It seems though you are the only 'raw feeder', I _might_ be the one with the
closest habits here? I'm not saying mine get raw fat everyday (they dont)
but when I have it still in food safe condition, they do. Raw meat, same
thing.

A sidestep being this is a dog group, but on raw feeding of pets. In 10
cats I've never had one yet who will eat that canned tuna catfood. They
love however fresh real ahi/aku (skipjack/yellowfin tuna) just fed in
slivers. Human name: Sashimi (grin). Cats also love raw squid innerds
though our dog looks at her like she's crazy to eat that stuff.

On 2/28/2010 6:06 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote
cshenk asked:

Char, how often do you bathe yours? Don's more of the mind that it's 'as
needed' unless a critical part of flea or tick control (or the dog
wanders through a mud puddle).

I agree with that. As I don't use any pesticides on my dogs or in my
house, or in the yard for that matter baths can be a way to kill some
fleas. They can hurt your dog, your kids, and you. Do you really
believe that all of a sudden when the pesticide dries it's ok for
children to touch the dog? Of course not! And it's even worse for the
dog who has absorbed the pesticides into it's body.

Well, I can see how you feel and where it would come from. Still, we
will have to continue with our flea treatments as is. I've tried the
diatomaceous route and baths but it doesnt work here in our area. If you
were to google a map of 'highest flea problem spots in the USA' we'd be
the thick of the worst of it.

Then you must live near me. The fleas can be horrendous here and yet the
DE still works. There was something about how you used it that caused it
not to work, it was not the fault of the DE. I'm in the Tampa Florida
area. We have fleas year round.


I use an organic one on the yard, and the vet stuff for the cat and dog
once a month. In cat's case it is also a heartworm preventive (Cash-pup
gets a monthly pill being a recovered heartworm victim).

Heartworm meds are dangerous too and I don't give them to my dogs yet
they are all heartworm free. This is the difference feeding raw makes.
The dogs are just a bit healthier and anyway the heartworm problem is
overplayed. Again, I live in Tampa where mosquitoes are out nearly year
round.



Advantix is a pesticide and hurts dogs. I don't use any pesticides at
all and most times I'm flea free. I usually use diatomaceous earth,
vacuum a lot and use baths too.

I checked and a good bit of what goes on the yard (organic) is
diatomaceous earth mixed in with some sort of natural soap?

Great!


I'd be curious what yard treatment you have found? I may want to swap to
it and see if it works better. Must be organic (I'll use chemicals at
need on fleas here but I keep things as low as I can and the yard is
shared by squirrels and all sorts of wild life).

Another one that works well are nematodes but those same products that
kill fleas can kill the nematodes so you have to be careful on the
timing so that you don't spend time and money for nothing.


I used Advantage for years till I figured out there were safer ways to
be flea free. It was a huge leap for me and it does take a little work
but to know I've significantly reduced the chance of cancer in my
whole family is well worth it.

I'm happy for you! Do you have cats and if so, what did you find to work
for them? Frequent baths was my old method (I was trying to go pesticide
free, didnt work here for fleas so I'm the reverse route of you on
that). Oh, back then I had 4 indoor cats.

Yes I have two cats. I treat the carpets with DE and rarely put it on
the pets because it makes their fur feel real nasty. The carpets are
where the real problems are anyway. I don't bathe that cats. Over time
the number of fleas diminish due to the DE and dog baths.


When we do wash the dog (or cat, which current one has never needed
being a neater soul), it's a very old remedy from a vet.
Head-n-shoulders (Kills fleas on contact, lasts as a flea killer for
about 4-5 days, kills most of the eggs).

Any lathering soap will kill fleas. I use Dawn dish soap if fleas are
real bad. I use an organic soap most of the time. Following up with
diatomaceous earth around the house and just vacuuming a lot just
about does it. I think the extra work is worth the peace of mind I get.

I used Octagon (I think that is the name) for a long time. It's organic
but doesnt strip the natural oils as much. Doesnt work as well as
head-n-shoulders and leaves a dryer skin but might be an option that
suits you better.

Then brush carefully with just
a very light coat of olive oil on the comb/brush (helps the dryness).

Yeah but doesn't it attract dirt? I guess if it's just a pinch here
and there it would work well.

I was mostly working with cats then (grin). Baths were due to fleas when
I was trying hard to be chemical free in a part of the world less suited
to it than most. Yes, it's just a drop or so worked gently into the coat.

So tell me where this part of the world is. I can't imagine it being
worse than where I am.


(Side dive, Apple, the dog we have adopted and are awaiting the process
to take home, has dandruff from too frequent baths and improper coat
care. Patches of baldness show flea infestation issue pattern common
here to any untended pet. First we fix the coat issue with better
feeding, then a gentle bath with a knubby washcloth to help clear the
undercoat and I'll have to see what sort of lanolin sort of item might
be good to help it heal, or just go my old route).

Dry coat hasnt been an issue for Cash-pup since after about a month with
us. I may not 'raw feed' but we do add natural fats to our pets foods
for their coats. They particularily like duck fat (who wouldnt!) and are
very fond of pork fat rendered from a southern slow cooked pork
shoulder.

Actually cooking the fat makes it not nearly as good for the dog as if
you'd give it raw. You are on to a good idea, you just need to feed it
in a better form.

Unfortunately we dont really have the meat eating syndrome here much to
keep fresh fats. When we do make a pork shoulder, we sliver some of that
fat off for the next 2-3 days and give them that. Cat won't eat fresh
pork fat but she likes fresh seafood fat (the little fatty spot inside a
crab, she gets one if we get 5-6 of the local blue crabs). I'm leery of
fresh chicken fat due to all the poultry issues. Fresh duck fat, yes, we
chance that with her and him.

Umm, we are not vegetarians, but we are a low meat eating family.
Medical issues mandate it. Because we eat less of it, we have the money
to eat the better types.

They *love* fresh ground beef from our own grinder. (since we eat
little, we get a bit upscale steak and grind our own). If it's a marbled
cut, we take some of the fat out for them right away.

Why grind it? When a dog or cat can chew on their meal awhile it leaves
them feeling more satisfied so I try to feed the biggest chunks they
will accept. Grinding promotes bacteria growth as well. My cats will eat
a chicken leg for instance.


(snips)

This BTW *IS* one of the spots where your 'raw feeding' is probably
better. Many folks overwash dogs (and cats) and have dry coat syndrome
due to not enough proper fats in the diet. Ok, kibble has 'fat' but it's
not the same type. Your pups I am guessing, never have this problem.
Mind dont either.

Yeah, we as a rule don't have dry skin problems except if the heat is
on a very long time. I'm in Florida so that is usually not a problem.
However, this winter was pretty chilly.

It's not as hot here. Heat tends to be relative though. I've lived
enough areas to learn that. Want real heat? Summer in Bahrain. ICK.

Raw fed dogs don't stink like kibble dogs do so they don't need a bath
as often. No bad breath, much less farts too. Raw is just a whole lot
easier on their digestive system because that is what it was made to
process.

It seems though you are the only 'raw feeder', I _might_ be the one with
the closest habits here? I'm not saying mine get raw fat everyday (they
dont) but when I have it still in food safe condition, they do. Raw
meat, same thing.

A dog's digestive system is made to handle rancid meats BTW. They have
stronger stomach acids, a much shorter system overall and it results in
the food being processed before it can cause illness. Cats are different
and need everything fresh.

There are a lot of meats out there around a dollar a pound or less that
are very good for dogs. Beef heart and kidneys, chicken gizzards and
livers, cheap pork chops, much more.



A sidestep being this is a dog group, but on raw feeding of pets. In 10
cats I've never had one yet who will eat that canned tuna catfood. They
love however fresh real ahi/aku (skipjack/yellowfin tuna) just fed in
slivers. Human name: Sashimi (grin). Cats also love raw squid innerds
though our dog looks at her like she's crazy to eat that stuff.

I feed my cats raw fish but also canned mackerel. I've not tried squid
yet. Thanks for the idea. We have someone in my area that delivers raw
food to most of Florida and she has items such as quail and baby rabbits
that cats seem to like. Small birds and rodents would be a cat's
natural diet. The most perfect food for a cat is mice and I know many
people who buy them frozen to feed to their cats. I've not tried it yet
but I plan on it.

I bath my dog 2 times in a month... and she spend a lot of time outside
too, but I clean everyday my backyard .


-----Original Message-----
From: actony1 ]
Posted At: sábado, 27 de febrero de 2010 08:59 a.m.
Posted To: rec.pets.dogs.health
Conversation: Question about Bathing
Subject: Question about Bathing


I have a small Chihuahua, and I was wondering how often I should bathe
him. He doesn't spend a whole lot of time outside. He is only out
there long enough to use the bathroom then he is right back in. Is once
a week too often, or not enough?

Thanks




--
actony1

"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Well, I can see how you feel and where it would come from. Still, we
will have to continue with our flea treatments as is. I've tried the
diatomaceous route and baths but it doesnt work here in our area. If you
were to google a map of 'highest flea problem spots in the USA' we'd be
the thick of the worst of it.

Then you must live near me.

Looking below, no I live in a far higher flea zone than you.

The fleas can be horrendous here and yet the DE still works. There was
something about how you used it that caused it not to work, it was not the
fault of the DE. I'm in the Tampa Florida area. We have fleas year round.

Grin, it's too hot there for the real problems. It's also dryer than here
so they die off in your yard naturally.

I've lived where you are and best I can explain it is 'multiply by 12' for
here at minimum. Everyone *thinks* if they see a flea, they live in a high
flea zone. You actually do not. The site i checked shows you 17th in the
nation. I'm number 2.


I use an organic one on the yard, and the vet stuff for the cat and dog
once a month. In cat's case it is also a heartworm preventive (Cash-pup
gets a monthly pill being a recovered heartworm victim).

Heartworm meds are dangerous too and I don't give them to my dogs yet they
are all heartworm free. This is the difference feeding raw makes. The dogs
are just a bit healthier and anyway the heartworm problem is overplayed.
Again, I live in Tampa where mosquitoes are out nearly year round.

Here we part company a bit. My rescue dog has heart issues and will for all
his life and no amount of 'raw diet' changes heartworm infestation. I
suspect it is easier to be infected from a raw diet than kibble for all
sorts of things. I wish you well for your dog's health but i am using
heartworm meds for all my pets.

I checked and a good bit of what goes on the yard (organic) is
diatomaceous earth mixed in with some sort of natural soap?

Great!

Yeah, I grow veggies out there.

I'd be curious what yard treatment you have found? I may want to swap to
it and see if it works better. Must be organic (I'll use chemicals at
need on fleas here but I keep things as low as I can and the yard is
shared by squirrels and all sorts of wild life).

Another one that works well are nematodes but those same products that
kill fleas can kill the nematodes so you have to be careful on the timing
so that you don't spend time and money for nothing.

Humm.

I used Advantage for years till I figured out there were safer ways to
be flea free. It was a huge leap for me and it does take a little work
but to know I've significantly reduced the chance of cancer in my
whole family is well worth it.

I'm happy for you! Do you have cats and if so, what did you find to work
for them? Frequent baths was my old method (I was trying to go pesticide
free, didnt work here for fleas so I'm the reverse route of you on
that). Oh, back then I had 4 indoor cats.

Yes I have two cats. I treat the carpets with DE and rarely put it on the
pets because it makes their fur feel real nasty. The carpets are where the
real problems are anyway. I don't bathe that cats. Over time the number of
fleas diminish due to the DE and dog baths.

Here, ya gotta even bathe the cats, its that bad. Flea drops from the vets
though work so no need then.

So tell me where this part of the world is. I can't imagine it being worse
than where I am.

No matter where you are, if you have them at all you think 'it must be the
worst'. I've lived in 4 countries and 12 states. The Japanse were
particularily sure they had the worst fleas in the world because they'd find
one every month or so. Here, an untreated pet in 2 weeks can literally (I
am not joking) have thousands and it can kill them.

Umm, we are not vegetarians, but we are a low meat eating family.
Medical issues mandate it. Because we eat less of it, we have the money
to eat the better types.

They *love* fresh ground beef from our own grinder. (since we eat
little, we get a bit upscale steak and grind our own). If it's a marbled
cut, we take some of the fat out for them right away.

Why grind it? When a dog or cat can chew on their meal awhile it leaves
them feeling more satisfied so I try to feed the biggest chunks they will
accept. Grinding promotes bacteria growth as well. My cats will eat a
chicken leg for instance.

I do not trust raw poultry in the USA. I did it Japan due to the controls
but not here. Grinding doesnt promote bacteria. Bacteria on the meat does
that. Improper cleaning of the grinding gear is the main problem. I clean
my own.

Works for me!

On 3/4/2010 10:42 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Well, I can see how you feel and where it would come from. Still, we
will have to continue with our flea treatments as is. I've tried the
diatomaceous route and baths but it doesnt work here in our area. If you
were to google a map of 'highest flea problem spots in the USA' we'd be
the thick of the worst of it.

Then you must live near me.

Looking below, no I live in a far higher flea zone than you.

Which is where?


The fleas can be horrendous here and yet the DE still works. There was
something about how you used it that caused it not to work, it was not
the fault of the DE. I'm in the Tampa Florida area. We have fleas year
round.

Grin, it's too hot there for the real problems. It's also dryer than
here so they die off in your yard naturally.

It is not dry here. We have daily showers for over half the year.
Because of the location the fleas don't die off in winter like most places.


I've lived where you are and best I can explain it is 'multiply by 12'
for here at minimum. Everyone *thinks* if they see a flea, they live in
a high flea zone. You actually do not. The site i checked shows you 17th
in the nation. I'm number 2.

What site is that?



I use an organic one on the yard, and the vet stuff for the cat and dog
once a month. In cat's case it is also a heartworm preventive (Cash-pup
gets a monthly pill being a recovered heartworm victim).

Heartworm meds are dangerous too and I don't give them to my dogs yet
they are all heartworm free. This is the difference feeding raw makes.
The dogs are just a bit healthier and anyway the heartworm problem is
overplayed. Again, I live in Tampa where mosquitoes are out nearly
year round.

Here we part company a bit. My rescue dog has heart issues and will for
all his life

What kind?

and no amount of 'raw diet' changes heartworm infestation.

No it does not but it does mean the chance of infection to begin with is
lower.

I suspect it is easier to be infected from a raw diet than kibble for
all sorts of things.

That is really vague but in general I'd say it's not true. A kibble fed
animal is not in optimal health and will get sick faster. And heartworm
comes from a mosquito bite and then goes through a very long process
before it infects an animal with it so feeding raw can't be a cause.

I have an ebook about heartworm you should read. It is about 60 pages so
I can't copy it here but I can send it to you. I think once you read it
you will have a new view on heartworms.


I wish you well for your dog's health but i am
using heartworm meds for all my pets.

Why?


I checked and a good bit of what goes on the yard (organic) is
diatomaceous earth mixed in with some sort of natural soap?

Great!

Yeah, I grow veggies out there.

I'd be curious what yard treatment you have found? I may want to swap to
it and see if it works better. Must be organic (I'll use chemicals at
need on fleas here but I keep things as low as I can and the yard is
shared by squirrels and all sorts of wild life).

Another one that works well are nematodes but those same products that
kill fleas can kill the nematodes so you have to be careful on the
timing so that you don't spend time and money for nothing.

Humm.

I used Advantage for years till I figured out there were safer ways to
be flea free. It was a huge leap for me and it does take a little work
but to know I've significantly reduced the chance of cancer in my
whole family is well worth it.

I'm happy for you! Do you have cats and if so, what did you find to work
for them? Frequent baths was my old method (I was trying to go pesticide
free, didnt work here for fleas so I'm the reverse route of you on
that). Oh, back then I had 4 indoor cats.

Yes I have two cats. I treat the carpets with DE and rarely put it on
the pets because it makes their fur feel real nasty. The carpets are
where the real problems are anyway. I don't bathe that cats. Over time
the number of fleas diminish due to the DE and dog baths.

Here, ya gotta even bathe the cats, its that bad. Flea drops from the
vets though work so no need then.

But they poison your cats. They cause cancer.


So tell me where this part of the world is. I can't imagine it being
worse than where I am.

No matter where you are, if you have them at all you think 'it must be
the worst'. I've lived in 4 countries and 12 states. The Japanse were
particularily sure they had the worst fleas in the world because they'd
find one every month or so. Here, an untreated pet in 2 weeks can
literally (I am not joking) have thousands and it can kill them.

Where is "here"?


Umm, we are not vegetarians, but we are a low meat eating family.
Medical issues mandate it. Because we eat less of it, we have the money
to eat the better types.

They *love* fresh ground beef from our own grinder. (since we eat
little, we get a bit upscale steak and grind our own). If it's a marbled
cut, we take some of the fat out for them right away.

Why grind it? When a dog or cat can chew on their meal awhile it
leaves them feeling more satisfied so I try to feed the biggest chunks
they will accept. Grinding promotes bacteria growth as well. My cats
will eat a chicken leg for instance.

I do not trust raw poultry in the USA. I did it Japan due to the
controls but not here. Grinding doesnt promote bacteria. Bacteria on the
meat does that. Improper cleaning of the grinding gear is the main
problem. I clean my own.

Works for me!


Why grind it when you don't have to?

"Char" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Then you must live near me.

Looking below, no I live in a far higher flea zone than you.

Which is where?

In this day of identity theft, that's not needed to post.

the fault of the DE. I'm in the Tampa Florida area. We have fleas year
round.

Grin, it's too hot there for the real problems. It's also dryer than
here so they die off in your yard naturally.

It is not dry here. We have daily showers for over half the year. Because
of the location the fleas don't die off in winter like most places.

Yup, but the infestation is lower. Ours isnt year round but higher at peaks
you do not have.

I've lived where you are and best I can explain it is 'multiply by 12'
for here at minimum. Everyone *thinks* if they see a flea, they live in
a high flea zone. You actually do not. The site i checked shows you 17th
in the nation. I'm number 2.

What site is that?

Vet flyer or use Google.

Heartworm meds are dangerous too and I don't give them to my dogs yet
they are all heartworm free. This is the difference feeding raw makes.
The dogs are just a bit healthier and anyway the heartworm problem is
overplayed. Again, I live in Tampa where mosquitoes are out nearly
year round.

Here we part company a bit. My rescue dog has heart issues and will for
all his life

What kind?

Ones caused by heartworms. We adopted him knowing he will at best see age 7
and most likely die before he sees age 5.

and no amount of 'raw diet' changes heartworm infestation.

No it does not but it does mean the chance of infection to begin with is
lower.

No, it isnt. It's the same or in some other types of infection, higher.

I have an ebook about heartworm you should read. It is about 60 pages so I
can't copy it here but I can send it to you. I think once you read it you
will have a new view on heartworms.

Thank you but no. Any ebook from a person who after being told the dog is
heart damaged and on vet medicines, who wants me apparently to stop using
them to use some sudo-holistic feeding plan and all that, aint my cuppa-tea
for caring for my pets that have known issues.

I like the organics when possible. This isnt one of those situations. You
don't seriously think I havent read up on them do you? I did that before i
adopted a known medically challanged rescue dog with them.

He stays on the vet mandated meds and all pets here will have preventives
because he is more prone to a reinfection and that protects us all.

Here, ya gotta even bathe the cats, its that bad. Flea drops from the
vets though work so no need then.

But they poison your cats. They cause cancer.

Why are you convinced of that?

They *love* fresh ground beef from our own grinder. (since we eat
little, we get a bit upscale steak and grind our own). If it's a
marbled
cut, we take some of the fat out for them right away.

Why grind it? When a dog or cat can chew on their meal awhile it
leaves them feeling more satisfied so I try to feed the biggest chunks
they will accept. Grinding promotes bacteria growth as well. My cats
will eat a chicken leg for instance.

I do not trust raw poultry in the USA. I did it Japan due to the
controls but not here. Grinding doesnt promote bacteria. Bacteria on the
meat does that. Improper cleaning of the grinding gear is the main
problem. I clean my own.

Works for me!

Why grind it when you don't have to?

We arent lazy and they like it.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:21:50 -0500, Char
wrote:



That's one of the most stupid thing I've seen posted here in awhile.

I guess you didn't want me to know that. It would reveal that you lied.

Vague again. Why all the mystery? I'm starting to think you don't have a
dog.

So in other words you made it up.

What kind? Can you answer anything straight out? Oh yeah, you don't have
a dog so you have to be vague.

You've never said what exactly your dog suffers from so being upset
about what I write is certainly stupid.

Nevermind, the more you post the more you look like a troll.

Ah, yes, here's Char (the person who tells other people not to post
here if they can't be nice) showing her true colors.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
Char wrote:

That's one of the most stupid thing I've seen posted here in awhile.

I guess you didn't want me to know that. It would reveal that you lied.

Vague again. Why all the mystery? I'm starting to think you don't have a
dog.

So in other words you made it up.

What kind? Can you answer anything straight out? Oh yeah, you don't have
a dog so you have to be vague.

You've never said what exactly your dog suffers from so being upset
about what I write is certainly stupid.

Nevermind, the more you post the more you look like a troll.

Ah, yes, here's Char (the person who tells other people not to post
here if they can't be nice) showing her true colors.

Doesnt seem a very friendly sort. Perhaps I'm missing something though.