On 4/21/2010 12:04 AM, M Dermer wrote:
On 4/20/2010 10:13 AM, Char wrote:

I just read what she considers is a good diet and it's appalling! Here
is an example.

Chicken, white meat, cooked, roasted
Rice, white, medium-grain, cooked, unenriched
Veggie Mix
Corn oil

The only appropriate food listed is the chicken and it isn't in the best
form for the dog by any means. All the other ingredients should not be
fed to dogs. Corn oil? Ackk!

Char

So Char how do you know your assertions about what is right and what is
wrong are correct? What kind of data do you have or are you just going
to make snide
remarks?

--MLD


I know because I've studied it for a very long time. Knowledge is power
as they say!

Dogs are carnivores and what she recommends to eat is mostly vegetable
based.
http://www.dogfoodguru.com/209/raw-f...ic-guidelines/

The problem is that dogs/wolves can not digest cellulose, they do not
have specific bacteria that herbivores have, that's why they do not
extract the nutrients that are inside the cells. They do not carry the
blenders either so they can not benefit from the plant matter. If the
wolf ingests the plants, which they do sometimes especially berries,
they go through their digestive system unchanged. It is true that if we
cook or blenderize (is that a word?) the veggies then the dogs may be
able to assimilate some of the nutrients in them.

But my whole point in this discussion is that the carnivores are not
able to digest the plant matter because they can not cook or blenderize
them...so, plant matter is foreign to their digestive systems. Which
means that it is not needed. It is known that dogs do not need carbs at
all, carbs were not in their evolution. Carnivores get all they need to
survive and thrive from the prey animals they eat. Raw fed dogs need no
supplements provided they eat a whole animal including offals.


http://rawfed.com/myths/
http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

"M Dermer" wrote
cshenk wrote:

I have gone to my vet, in this case a DVM/ nutritionist and she
indicated that it take three months to clear a protein from a dog's
system.

That does seem long. But I bet there is some beneft seen pretty fast if
it's an alleric response.

I would like to think a quick benefit would be seen, but she insisted that
3 months was required.

Interesting, but she'd know best. I've never dealt with a food allergy pet.
I've read about it, but that's not the same as experience.

My only 'helpful hint' there won't work for you.

Yes, she has all the right credentials. Moreover, my vet reported that
about 1/2 the dogs who have kidney stones have them again. This has not
happened with my dog on his diet. BTW my dog, Max,

Coolness! And no need to go back to old posts.

Do you use the suppliments that the web page referred to?

No. They cost about 4 times the cost of using multiple vitamins for
humans. Also I don't know if my dog will eat his food with the supplements
sprinkled on his food. But there is a price to pay. Human multi-vitamins
have Vitamin C and I must keep my dog's urine PH close
to 7 so I must use more alkalizing agent because of the
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) in the human mult-vitamin.

ah. Short of trying to piece each one in separtely, thats probably the best
way then.

If you are searching for things to add here's what I recall of her list
(some are not vegetarian so obviously ignore the ones that do not fit
your pet's needs):

I feed my dog some cheese and yogurt. He also chews on a rawhide.

That works! I'm guessing he's not lactose intolerant.

Trout/salmon spines
He has rejected trout and salmon

Perhaps some other versions may work for him? It will depend on where you
are as to cost and availability. I live on the coast so fresh fish is easy
and pretty inexpensive here.

tofu (warning, soy can be an allergen but her pooch doesn't have a

Soy products are high in oxalates a cause of my dog's bladder stone
problem.

Ah!

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9444

Probably nothing there you didnt already know but I see a few options that
if you hadn't seen them, might be useful. Squash for example.

bonemeal supplement

He receives calcium supplements.

Good. My Cash pup needs help there too but the suppliments didnt seem to
work for him. I took to feeding him the same things I need (I also don't
absorb from the pills or powders well) and that turned the trick.

whole fingerling fish

Never tried the above.

Might be worth a try. If you have any sort of 'asian store' (might be
Korean or just about anything) they will *probably* be least expensive
there. Another thing Cash-pup likes is dried 'niboshe' (they look like
dried whole guppies) and dried shrimp (they are like coctail sized ones, be
sure to get plain not the chile powdered red ones).

Olive oil

He goes for this oil as well as flax seed oil. These days
I am using salmon oil as a source of Omega 3 FAs and DHA and EPA.

Excellent!

Thanks for your suggestions,

Most welcome! Hey, even if i dont have the answers, it's nice to just chat
on possible ideas.

"M Dermer" wrote
Char wrote:

So Char how do you know your assertions about what is right and what is
wrong are correct? What kind of data do you have or are you just going to
make snide remarks?

Char believes *strongly* that the ONLY diet any dog should be on is 100% raw
meat. She's got a link to her favored web site in most posts.

Since obviously this doesn't suit your needs, she'll likely never like
anything you post on your dog's diet.

In article ,
"cshenk" wrote:

"M Dermer" wrote
cshenk wrote:

I have gone to my vet, in this case a DVM/ nutritionist and she
indicated that it take three months to clear a protein from a dog's
system.

That does seem long. But I bet there is some beneft seen pretty fast if
it's an alleric response.

I would like to think a quick benefit would be seen, but she insisted that
3 months was required.

Interesting, but she'd know best. I've never dealt with a food allergy pet.
I've read about it, but that's not the same as experience.

My only 'helpful hint' there won't work for you.

Yes, she has all the right credentials. Moreover, my vet reported that
about 1/2 the dogs who have kidney stones have them again. This has not
happened with my dog on his diet. BTW my dog, Max,

Coolness! And no need to go back to old posts.

Do you use the suppliments that the web page referred to?

No. They cost about 4 times the cost of using multiple vitamins for
humans. Also I don't know if my dog will eat his food with the supplements
sprinkled on his food. But there is a price to pay. Human multi-vitamins
have Vitamin C and I must keep my dog's urine PH close
to 7 so I must use more alkalizing agent because of the
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) in the human mult-vitamin.

ah. Short of trying to piece each one in separtely, thats probably the best
way then.

If you are searching for things to add here's what I recall of her list
(some are not vegetarian so obviously ignore the ones that do not fit
your pet's needs):

I feed my dog some cheese and yogurt. He also chews on a rawhide.

That works! I'm guessing he's not lactose intolerant.

Trout/salmon spines
He has rejected trout and salmon

Perhaps some other versions may work for him? It will depend on where you
are as to cost and availability. I live on the coast so fresh fish is easy
and pretty inexpensive here.

tofu (warning, soy can be an allergen but her pooch doesn't have a

Soy products are high in oxalates a cause of my dog's bladder stone
problem.

Ah!

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9444

Probably nothing there you didnt already know but I see a few options that
if you hadn't seen them, might be useful. Squash for example.

bonemeal supplement

He receives calcium supplements.

Good. My Cash pup needs help there too but the suppliments didnt seem to
work for him. I took to feeding him the same things I need (I also don't
absorb from the pills or powders well) and that turned the trick.

whole fingerling fish

Never tried the above.

Might be worth a try. If you have any sort of 'asian store' (might be
Korean or just about anything) they will *probably* be least expensive
there. Another thing Cash-pup likes is dried 'niboshe' (they look like
dried whole guppies) and dried shrimp (they are like coctail sized ones, be
sure to get plain not the chile powdered red ones).

Olive oil

He goes for this oil as well as flax seed oil. These days
I am using salmon oil as a source of Omega 3 FAs and DHA and EPA.

Excellent!

Thanks for your suggestions,

Most welcome! Hey, even if i dont have the answers, it's nice to just chat
on possible ideas.

Dogs are scavengers. You may want to let it rot for a week or two before
feeding it to them.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

On 4/21/2010 4:18 PM, cshenk wrote:
"M Dermer" wrote
Char wrote:

So Char how do you know your assertions about what is right and what
is wrong are correct? What kind of data do you have or are you just
going to make snide remarks?

Char believes *strongly* that the ONLY diet any dog should be on is 100%
raw meat. She's got a link to her favored web site in most posts.

Since obviously this doesn't suit your needs, she'll likely never like
anything you post on your dog's diet.

I understand. Actually Char did not present ANY
data. Rather she referred me to a theory about why
dog's should be fed meat.

Thanks,

--Marshall

On Apr 23, 2:06*am, M Dermer wrote:
On 4/21/2010 4:18 PM, cshenk wrote:

"M Dermer" wrote
Char wrote:

So Char how do you know your assertions about what is right and what
is wrong are correct? What kind of data do you have or are you just
going to make snide remarks?

Char believes *strongly* that the ONLY diet any dog should be on is 100%
raw meat. She's got a link to her favored web site in most posts.

Since obviously this doesn't suit your needs, she'll likely never like
anything you post on your dog's diet.

I understand. Actually Char did not present ANY
data. Rather she referred me to a theory about why
dog's should be fed meat.

Thanks,

--Marshall

What you are feeding your dog is not the problem. The problem is it is
over stressed and afraid.

On 4/23/2010 2:06 AM, M Dermer wrote:
On 4/21/2010 4:18 PM, cshenk wrote:
"M Dermer" wrote
Char wrote:

So Char how do you know your assertions about what is right and what
is wrong are correct? What kind of data do you have or are you just
going to make snide remarks?

Char believes *strongly* that the ONLY diet any dog should be on is 100%
raw meat. She's got a link to her favored web site in most posts.

Since obviously this doesn't suit your needs, she'll likely never like
anything you post on your dog's diet.

I understand. Actually Char did not present ANY data. Rather she
referred me to a theory about why dog's should be fed meat.


It isn't a theory that dogs can't digest cellulose. It's fact.

"M Dermer" wrote
cshenk wrote:

Char believes *strongly* that the ONLY diet any dog should be on is 100%
raw meat. She's got a link to her favored web site in most posts.

I understand. Actually Char did not present ANY data. Rather she referred
me to a theory about why dog's should be fed meat.

Many people feel letting a web page speak for them is perfect. They find
one that suits their aims and use it as the answer. I prefer to type in a
real live person answer when I can but obviously there will be times when a
link is appropriate. Like 'What dogs and Enlish Bull dog look like' would
be met with a link to a picture of one (unless i knew the person on the
other end was visually disabled inwhich case i would describe to my best
level of ability).

Meantime, I'm not here to convert you to meat feeding your pooch though you
seem to regard fish as 'other than meat' which I've seen in many areas of
the country and communities. That one always suprises me when I see it but
only because I come from different areas and background.

Grin, in my house, we are by no means vegetarians but we are low meat eaters
and most of the meat comes from 'seafood'. When we use pork, beef or
chicken (or Duck) it's used more like a garnish being about 3 oz serving per
person. We just got out of the habit when we noticed we all seemed to feel
better if we made room for more fresh veggies and fruits so something had to
give and meat was reduced. Fish though, we may pig out on that from time to
time! Seafoods are normally seved in 6-8oz amounts per person. It's all of
course, in what you are comfortable with.

Breakfast and lunch are usually pretty much vegetarian (may use chicken
stock or beef or Dashi though). Lunch, the same. Dinner now, we'll have
meat on average 6 times a week and 4 of those will be seafood only.

"Drunken Reggie" wrote

What you are feeding your dog is not the problem. The problem is it is
over stressed and afraid.

Huh? Where'd you get that? Guy's dog has allergy problems, apparently from
a recent introduction of corn to the diet and he's already addressing it.
He's just suprised (as I am) that it will take that long to filter out (3
months).

"Char" wrote

It isn't a theory that dogs can't digest cellulose. It's fact.

Char, why do you feel it's wrong to add a harmless extra bulk to a meal that
they like which neither adds no detracts from their health?

Cash looked at me funny when I went to pull out the stuff for his dinner. He
pawed at the fridge. Thats where the green beans are! Snicker, I pulled
out a few and set them in a steamer. He's been getting them the past few
days and likes them. It doesnt do anything for him but add a factor of
'full feeling' which makes him happy.