On 4/7/2010 12:43 PM, Thomas.F.Malone wrote:

There are some dogs that cannot be trained IMO Afghans and Irish Setters
but I think Greyhounds are worth a try.

There are no dogs that cannot be trained.

"Char" wrote in message
news
On 4/7/2010 12:43 PM, Thomas.F.Malone wrote:

There are some dogs that cannot be trained IMO Afghans and Irish Setters
but I think Greyhounds are worth a try.

There are no dogs that cannot be trained.

As the premise of "no bad dogs" and "all criminals can be rehabilitated".
Certainly there is a genetic component that determines basic intelligence,
temperament and trainability, as well as physical and neurological
conditions that may be inbred or caused by experience and environment. There
are some dogs and some people who simply cannot be trained or trusted to
behave in an acceptable manner in certain circumstances, and the privilege
to live in our society must be tempered by management, or terminated.

Saying some breeds of dogs cannot be trained is akin to making similar
statements about people of certain races. There are certainly some traits
that may be statistically more prevalent in some identifiable subsets of
both canine and human species, but a blanket statement about those
tendencies, and treatment based on them, is inexcusably racist. However, it
is prudent to exercise various degrees of caution based on generalities and
statistics, until the specific characteristics of an individual can be
determined.

There are exceptions to every absolute statement (including this one),
because it takes only one exception to prove it wrong, and the absense of
observed exceptions just means one has not been seen yet, especially if the
sample is small. A general statement of probability is reasonable. Anything
else is a lie, a damned lie, or [misused] statistics.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
"Char" wrote in message
Thomas.F.Malone wrote:

There are some dogs that cannot be trained IMO Afghans and Irish Setters
but I think Greyhounds are worth a try.

There are no dogs that cannot be trained.

Agreed Char. Some may be a little harder to train at certain things.

However, it is prudent to exercise various degrees of caution based on
generalities and statistics, until the specific characteristics of an
individual can be determined.

Agreed again Paul. Breeds have various 'characteristics' which an
individual may have or not have to varying degrees but makes a decent
starting point as 'generally' they will tend to those things.

Isn't it Water Spaniels so named as most of them like swimming? I'd
anticipate one of them to be easy to teach to swim and not overtly afraid of
at least calm water. That doesn't mean you can't find one who's afraid of
water.

There are specific characteristics we want in a dog.

- No 'one man dog', must love and react to us all
- No 'attack dog' (or strong tendancy to it) that we have to fear will go
after some kid in our yard
- Must get along well with cats
- Must not require long walks/runs other than our smallish fenced backyard
can provide (this due to our own medical needs and our current pet has
medical needs that prevent these things so we matched up to a medical needs
dog perfectly)

There are preferences as well but not total picture
- Medium to large (current heart owner is 53lbs)
- Low maintenance coat needs (nothing that needs 2 hours a day of brushing
etc)
- Relatively relaxed, vice running around yippie all the time
- Someone who without us, wouldnt find a home (medical needs dogs suit,
older suit).

So far, we find the beagle/Basset/hound line seems to suit us very well.
It's not the only one that would work though. Current fellow is a happy
fairly healthy for his condition mixed Beagle/Bull Mastiff (apparently).
Heartworm victim with damage and spinal arthritis (not major arthritis but
not fond of damp cold days and needs a step stool to climb on his favored
sofa to sleep).

A greyhound here, just wouldn't work. They need more exercise than we can
do (husband and me are both older and disabled with running/walking being
the main 'no go' except short walks with no regular schedule).

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
"Char" wrote in message
Thomas.F.Malone wrote:

There are some dogs that cannot be trained IMO Afghans and Irish
Setters
but I think Greyhounds are worth a try.

There are no dogs that cannot be trained.

Agreed Char. Some may be a little harder to train at certain things.

However, it is prudent to exercise various degrees of caution based on
generalities and statistics, until the specific characteristics of an
individual can be determined.

Agreed again Paul. Breeds have various 'characteristics' which an
individual may have or not have to varying degrees but makes a decent
starting point as 'generally' they will tend to those things.

Isn't it Water Spaniels so named as most of them like swimming? I'd
anticipate one of them to be easy to teach to swim and not overtly afraid
of at least calm water. That doesn't mean you can't find one who's afraid
of water.

I took Muttley for a swim and a bath. He did not seem to enjoy either (see
photos on his website). He *really* needed the bath, after more than a year



There are specific characteristics we want in a dog.

- No 'one man dog', must love and react to us all
- No 'attack dog' (or strong tendancy to it) that we have to fear will go
after some kid in our yard
- Must get along well with cats
- Must not require long walks/runs other than our smallish fenced backyard
can provide (this due to our own medical needs and our current pet has
medical needs that prevent these things so we matched up to a medical
needs dog perfectly)

There are preferences as well but not total picture
- Medium to large (current heart owner is 53lbs)
- Low maintenance coat needs (nothing that needs 2 hours a day of brushing
etc)
- Relatively relaxed, vice running around yippie all the time
- Someone who without us, wouldnt find a home (medical needs dogs suit,
older suit).

So far, we find the beagle/Basset/hound line seems to suit us very well.
It's not the only one that would work though. Current fellow is a happy
fairly healthy for his condition mixed Beagle/Bull Mastiff (apparently).
Heartworm victim with damage and spinal arthritis (not major arthritis but
not fond of damp cold days and needs a step stool to climb on his favored
sofa to sleep).

A greyhound here, just wouldn't work. They need more exercise than we can
do (husband and me are both older and disabled with running/walking being
the main 'no go' except short walks with no regular schedule).

Muttley seems to be a mixture of GSD and possibly Mastiff, and he does seem
to fit the mold of being a guardian. He has a high prey drive so I would not
trust him with cats (my cat coexisted with him for the first 8 months I had
him). I can't trust him off-leash, mostly due to the proximity of a
dangerous road, but he has gotten loose several times with no ill effects
and he has always found his way back or I found him nearby. He is a very
low-key dog and seems content to snooze or sit outside on a tether. I have
back and knee problems and I usually only walk him about 1/4-1/2 mile daily,
and once in a while for 2-3 miles. I saved him from euthanasia three times,
and although most people like him, it would be difficult to find someone who
would take him. He is about 76 lb but he is surprisingly agile and gentle.
He has been fine meeting people and young children, but sometimes has been
aggressive with dogs. He would not have been a dog I would have chosen, and
in fact I didn't want him, but after almost a year we really bonded and he
is now a significant part of my life. As Cesar says, sometimes you get the
dog you need.

Do you have pictures of your dog(s)? It really helps to visualize the
animals we talk about here. There are lots of pictures of Muttley on his
website www.muttleydog.com.

Paul and Muttley

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote
"cshenk" wrote

I took Muttley for a swim and a bath. He did not seem to enjoy either (see
photos on his website). He *really* needed the bath, after more than a
year

Hehehehe cute fellow! Cash doesnt like getting wet.

There are specific characteristics we want in a dog.
(snipped list)

So far, we find the beagle/Basset/hound line seems to suit us very well.
It's not the only one that would work though. Current fellow is a happy
fairly healthy for his condition mixed Beagle/Bull Mastiff (apparently).
Heartworm victim with damage and spinal arthritis (not major arthritis
but not fond of damp cold days and needs a step stool to climb on his
favored sofa to sleep).

Did some browsing today and saw a cutie with medical needs who we are
thinking about asking about.

Gotta finish the fence first though (taking a short break, finishing that
fence today). She looks like a mix of doxie and beagle?

A greyhound here, just wouldn't work. They need more exercise than we
can do (husband and me are both older and disabled with running/walking
being the main 'no go' except short walks with no regular schedule).

Muttley seems to be a mixture of GSD and possibly Mastiff, and he does
seem to fit the mold of being a guardian. He has a high prey drive so I
would not trust him with cats (my cat coexisted with him for the first 8
months I had him). I can't trust him off-leash, mostly due to the
proximity of a dangerous road, but he has gotten loose several times with
no ill effects and he has always found his way back or I found him nearby.
He is a very low-key dog and seems content to snooze or sit outside on a
tether. I have back and knee problems and I usually only walk him about
1/4-1/2 mile daily, and once in a while for 2-3 miles. I saved him from
euthanasia three times, and although most people like him, it would be
difficult to find someone who would take him. He is about 76 lb but he is
surprisingly agile and gentle.

Humm! He would fit here then. I'd not have thought of that. Right now we
are on a list for possible home older ones, a senior who is unadoptable
because has only estimated 1-2 years. No specific hits yet but may come up.

He has been fine meeting people and young children, but sometimes has been
aggressive with dogs. He would not have been a dog I would have chosen,
and in fact I didn't want him, but after almost a year we really bonded
and he is now a significant part of my life. As Cesar says, sometimes you
get the dog you need.

;-) Ah well

Do you have pictures of your dog(s)? It really helps to visualize the
animals we talk about here. There are lots of pictures of Muttley on his
website www.muttleydog.com.

Just 1 dog and one cat here. Gotta get the digital cable located so can
post a few pictures.