Time for a new thread methinks!

To start, Cash has to use a harness. It's a body shape thing. Cash came to
us semi-leash trained meaning he knew what it was (Oh goodie! A walk with
my 2 foots!). Foster folks used a collar and leash. Among his laundry
list, was that he would need patience and training to be well leash walked.

Basically his level then was he would walk the 2 foot who'd best keep up
(grin). Working with him (and a small set of obedience classes which teach
basics to new dog owners), we got him fairly well behaved once we took to
the harness (trainer suggestion and worked a charm). The scamp knows us 3
to a T and exactly how much he can 'pull' with each of us.

With Daughter, he's ok for a gentle jog until she says 'stop' (he'll stop
right away), a gentle pull and look back 'can we run a little?'. He goes
straight as an arrow when jogging after one mistake (ran to the sidee) that
made Daughter fall and skin her knee. With husband, walking only and an
occasional pull to the side to investigate but stops on command. With me,
he'll pull a little forward (leash still slack) but never sideways and if i
use short leash, he's an almost perfect 'heel' now with me (and only me).
Perfect leash walking has never been a strong point for us so we are happy
with what we have.

So how's it working for the rest of you? Just curious to see what others
here have. Muttley would be about the size range of Cash.

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:00:29 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

Time for a new thread methinks!

To start, Cash has to use a harness. It's a body shape thing. Cash came to
us semi-leash trained meaning he knew what it was (Oh goodie! A walk with
my 2 foots!). Foster folks used a collar and leash. Among his laundry
list, was that he would need patience and training to be well leash walked.

Basically his level then was he would walk the 2 foot who'd best keep up
(grin). Working with him (and a small set of obedience classes which teach
basics to new dog owners), we got him fairly well behaved once we took to
the harness (trainer suggestion and worked a charm). The scamp knows us 3
to a T and exactly how much he can 'pull' with each of us.

With Daughter, he's ok for a gentle jog until she says 'stop' (he'll stop
right away), a gentle pull and look back 'can we run a little?'. He goes
straight as an arrow when jogging after one mistake (ran to the sidee) that
made Daughter fall and skin her knee. With husband, walking only and an
occasional pull to the side to investigate but stops on command. With me,
he'll pull a little forward (leash still slack) but never sideways and if i
use short leash, he's an almost perfect 'heel' now with me (and only me).
Perfect leash walking has never been a strong point for us so we are happy
with what we have.

So how's it working for the rest of you? Just curious to see what others
here have. Muttley would be about the size range of Cash.

I use a harness for my oversized IG and my 10 month-old Borzoi pup;
being sighthounds, it would not be difficult for them to back out of
their collars. IGs tend to be timid by nature and although he is
well-socialized, he startles more easily than most dogs and I prefer
the security of a harness. Once the Bozo's got better leash manners,
she'll be walked on either a sighthound collar or a martingale.
Probably a leather sighthound collar, because she has a silky coat
that most martingales might slip over. My greyhounds are walked on
their martingales or leather sighthound collar, whatever they have.

I know a lot of greyhound people who use harnesses, either to prevent
a dog backing out of a collar or neck injuries if the dog lunges at a
squirrel or cat while on a walk. I think that's a good use of a
harness, particularly since most ex-racing greyhounds don't tend to
pull on leash, although I think it's preferable to train the dog not
to try to chase things on walks. I've also seen people use harnesses
for dogs that are pulling on leash, and harnesses rarely solve that
problem; there's a reason that sled dogs wear harnesses, and the
reason is that harnesses make it really easy for the dogs to hunker
down and pull.

I certainly don't require my dogs to heel on walks - walks are
supposed to be fun for the dogs - but I do require basic leash
manners. There is no pulling allowed, and that was the rule before I
had balance problems. No running, either, unless I invite the dog to
go for a trot, in which case I set the speed. We walk where there is
almost no traffic and dogs are welcome to wander way out in front of
us. I almost always walk more than one dog and prefer that each dog
stay on one side of me. Most of what they want to investigate I don't
want them investigating. If we're walking in the woods we take fewer
dogs and the rules are different.

We have a fenced yard large enough for the dogs to really run in, so
the purpose of our walks is not primarily exercise (for the dogs,
anyway).

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 13:57:18 -0400, sighthounds & siberians
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:00:29 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

Time for a new thread methinks!

much snippage

I forgot to mention my new favorite thing: a leash that includes a
waist belt for the human and leashes that can be attached to the belt.
They have a 'lunge buster' which I put on both leashes just in case,
and you can get leash extensions. http://www.buddysys.com/ I've
tried various types of leash couplers, including one that sort of
looks like a fishing rod and is designed to prevent two dogs from
getting tangled up (I looked for their web site but they must have
gone out of business). I really like the Buddy System because if the
dogs are staying one on either side of me like they're supposed to, I
have both hands free. No affiliation, etc., just a satisfied
customer.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

To start, Cash has to use a harness. It's a body shape thing. Cash came
to

So how's it working for the rest of you? Just curious to see what others
here have. Muttley would be about the size range of Cash.

I use a harness for my oversized IG and my 10 month-old Borzoi pup;
being sighthounds, it would not be difficult for them to back out of
their collars. IGs tend to be timid by nature and although he is

I can imagine that. Cash has a similar issue being very muscular necked so
he can slip a collar off over his head if he wants to.

well-socialized, he startles more easily than most dogs and I prefer
the security of a harness. Once the Bozo's got better leash manners,
she'll be walked on either a sighthound collar or a martingale.
Probably a leather sighthound collar, because she has a silky coat
that most martingales might slip over. My greyhounds are walked on
their martingales or leather sighthound collar, whatever they have.

I'll have to look up martingales.

I know a lot of greyhound people who use harnesses, either to prevent
a dog backing out of a collar or neck injuries if the dog lunges at a
squirrel or cat while on a walk. I think that's a good use of a

The lunging and hurting their necks was our first worry as well as the
trainer. Cash was at one point, a hunting dog (before us). Neck injury was
a worry.

harness, particularly since most ex-racing greyhounds don't tend to
pull on leash, although I think it's preferable to train the dog not
to try to chase things on walks. I've also seen people use harnesses
for dogs that are pulling on leash, and harnesses rarely solve that
problem; there's a reason that sled dogs wear harnesses, and the
reason is that harnesses make it really easy for the dogs to hunker
down and pull.

Hehe Cash did that at the start. Don had a simple answer. He used the
collar with a second leash and would pull his head up. Not 'hurting level'
just a simple 'look up' sort. If Cash didnt stop, then we did. Sat right
there in the grass til he calmed down. I think we had to walk him that way
for about the first 2 months (less sitting as time went on). He's a bright
fellow and caught on fast, or so I think.

Don recalls a german shepard who he never could get collar trained. Working
dog from his military days. Sweet dog but it was either a harness or a
choke collar and the choke collar didnt teach him better manners, just
prevented them.

I certainly don't require my dogs to heel on walks - walks are
supposed to be fun for the dogs - but I do require basic leash

Grin, same here.

manners. There is no pulling allowed, and that was the rule before I
had balance problems. No running, either, unless I invite the dog to

Cash pulls a bit but scales it to what he can get away with per walker.

go for a trot, in which case I set the speed. We walk where there is
almost no traffic and dogs are welcome to wander way out in front of
us. I almost always walk more than one dog and prefer that each dog
stay on one side of me. Most of what they want to investigate I don't
want them investigating. If we're walking in the woods we take fewer
dogs and the rules are different.

I'd like to learn more on walking 2 dogs at once? Pitfalls and such?
Looking at getting second one.

We can walk them with one with each of us which seems right to start with.

We have a fenced yard large enough for the dogs to really run in, so
the purpose of our walks is not primarily exercise (for the dogs,
anyway).

Yeah, for me it's just getting out for both of us and added socialization.
Back yard isnt huge, but it's enough to jump around and chase squirrels in.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

Time for a new thread methinks!

much snippage

I forgot to mention my new favorite thing: a leash that includes a
waist belt for the human and leashes that can be attached to the belt.
They have a 'lunge buster' which I put on both leashes just in case,
and you can get leash extensions. http://www.buddysys.com/ I've

Spiffy! I think my husband's medical issues can handle that.

Meantime a happy pooch is snoozing on the sofa in the sunroom. Cat's on his
back. Looks like a puppy-cat double decker bus.

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:12:58 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:


Hehe Cash did that at the start. Don had a simple answer. He used the
collar with a second leash and would pull his head up. Not 'hurting level'
just a simple 'look up' sort. If Cash didnt stop, then we did. Sat right
there in the grass til he calmed down. I think we had to walk him that way
for about the first 2 months (less sitting as time went on). He's a bright
fellow and caught on fast, or so I think.

I think there's a harness made to help teach the dog not to pull that
has D-rings for two leashes with the same idea as Don actually using
two leashes. As with horses, if you control the head you control the
dog. Premier makes a head harness that many people swear by, but I
don't care for it.

Don recalls a german shepard who he never could get collar trained. Working
dog from his military days. Sweet dog but it was either a harness or a
choke collar and the choke collar didnt teach him better manners, just
prevented them.

I would use a pinch collar before a choke collar. Pinch collars look
like medieval torture devices, but if you try one on your arm you find
that you're not. They distribute the pressure evenly and are
self-correcting - the dog learns very quickly that if s/he pulls,
there's a pinch, if s/he pulls harder there's more pinch, and if s/he
stops there's no pinch or pressure. But pulling was more of an
ongoing problem with the Siberians and we don't have any Sibes any
longer.

I'd like to learn more on walking 2 dogs at once? Pitfalls and such?
Looking at getting second one.

We can walk them with one with each of us which seems right to start with.

Good idea to start that way. Get to know a second dog before walking
them both at once, so you know what you're likely to have to deal
with.

We have a fenced yard large enough for the dogs to really run in, so
the purpose of our walks is not primarily exercise (for the dogs,
anyway).

Yeah, for me it's just getting out for both of us and added socialization.
Back yard isnt huge, but it's enough to jump around and chase squirrels in.

We have a 2 mile route and it's more for my exercise than theirs.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

Hehe Cash did that at the start. Don had a simple answer. He used the
collar with a second leash and would pull his head up. Not 'hurting
level'
just a simple 'look up' sort. If Cash didnt stop, then we did. Sat right
there in the grass til he calmed down. I think we had to walk him that
way
for about the first 2 months (less sitting as time went on). He's a
bright
fellow and caught on fast, or so I think.

I think there's a harness made to help teach the dog not to pull that
has D-rings for two leashes with the same idea as Don actually using
two leashes. As with horses, if you control the head you control the
dog. Premier makes a head harness that many people swear by, but I
don't care for it.

We saw several solutions. Don (has had dogs all his life) used what he was
used to.

I've seen the head harness at the park. My impression was a dog of the
conformation of Cash might get hurt if he jerked about in that. Miht be
wrong but we went the other way.

Don recalls a german shepard who he never could get collar trained.
Working
dog from his military days. Sweet dog but it was either a harness or a
choke collar and the choke collar didnt teach him better manners, just
prevented them.

I would use a pinch collar before a choke collar. Pinch collars look
like medieval torture devices, but if you try one on your arm you find
that you're not. They distribute the pressure evenly and are
self-correcting - the dog learns very quickly that if s/he pulls,
there's a pinch, if s/he pulls harder there's more pinch, and if s/he
stops there's no pinch or pressure. But pulling was more of an
ongoing problem with the Siberians and we don't have any Sibes any
longer.

Don's out now but I will ask him later. His general impression though is
50's based collars. He may never have seen these.

I'd like to learn more on walking 2 dogs at once? Pitfalls and such?
Looking at getting second one.

We can walk them with one with each of us which seems right to start with.

Good idea to start that way. Get to know a second dog before walking
them both at once, so you know what you're likely to have to deal
with.

Seemed sensible. Chatlotte can walk Cash and me the new one (which we dont
have yet, just looking about for a rescue who needs us).

We have a fenced yard large enough for the dogs to really run in, so
the purpose of our walks is not primarily exercise (for the dogs,
anyway).

Yeah, for me it's just getting out for both of us and added socialization.
Back yard isnt huge, but it's enough to jump around and chase squirrels
in.

We have a 2 mile route and it's more for my exercise than theirs.

More like a 1 mile route here but Cash came in and crashed on the sofa as
normal after it.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
Time for a new thread methinks!

To start, Cash has to use a harness. It's a body shape thing. Cash came
to us semi-leash trained meaning he knew what it was (Oh goodie! A walk
with my 2 foots!). Foster folks used a collar and leash. Among his
laundry list, was that he would need patience and training to be well
leash walked.

Basically his level then was he would walk the 2 foot who'd best keep up
(grin). Working with him (and a small set of obedience classes which
teach basics to new dog owners), we got him fairly well behaved once we
took to the harness (trainer suggestion and worked a charm). The scamp
knows us 3 to a T and exactly how much he can 'pull' with each of us.

With Daughter, he's ok for a gentle jog until she says 'stop' (he'll stop
right away), a gentle pull and look back 'can we run a little?'. He goes
straight as an arrow when jogging after one mistake (ran to the sidee)
that made Daughter fall and skin her knee. With husband, walking only and
an occasional pull to the side to investigate but stops on command. With
me, he'll pull a little forward (leash still slack) but never sideways and
if i use short leash, he's an almost perfect 'heel' now with me (and only
me). Perfect leash walking has never been a strong point for us so we are
happy with what we have.

So how's it working for the rest of you? Just curious to see what others
here have. Muttley would be about the size range of Cash.

Muttley has always pulled on the leash, but he has eased up somewhat,
especially when going on our usual walks around my property. However, when
we get on the trail or otherwise in unfamiliar and exciting territory, he
starts doing his full-tilt combat crawls where he tries to use his almost
80lb to get maximum traction. I originally used a choke chain collar, and
then a couple of different prong collars, and now a flat Martingale, all
with about the same level of (non)result. Last night, walking him in the
dark, he suddenly barked and started to run up the hill in chase of
something, most likely a fox or the local coyote. He finally settled down
but still occasionally started to go in pursuit of the offending animal.

Last Friday, enroute back from his vet appointment, Muttley and I visited a
local woman who owns a kennel and raises Borzois. She suggested an
"Easy-Walk" harness, which at one time I had for Muttley, but it didn't fit
quite right, and he worked his way out of it, and then I lost it while we
were at an event in the park. She found an intermediate M-L size that seemed
to fit him better, and she ordered one for us. I'll see if that helps. But I
am used to having Muttley be in front of me and actually helping me up some
steep and norrow paths where a "heel" position would not work. So I will
have to see if this will help. I also have an "anti-pull" harness which has
a clip on the top back which tightens straps under his front legs, but he
hasd gotten used to that and it only helps marginally.

Sometimes I determine that I will train him not to pull, and when he starts
going ahead I have him stop and wait. But I soon lose patience and don't
really have the time to walk a few feet at a time, so eventually I give up
and tolerate a tight leash without excessive pulling. I realize that this
just means that he has won his little battle and reinforces his perception
that he will eventually get his way. Maybe the combination of the new
harness and a renewd determination to stop his pulling will finally work,
but I don't have 100% confidence and that will probably doom it to failure.

I haven't yet tried a Halti or GL. I have heard various opinions and I think
results vary depending on the dog and the handler and the proper fit and use
of the device. Muttley seems fairly tolerant of handling and I don't think
he would react too strongly against it, as some have reported. And I don't
think it would cause neck injury to him due to his stocky and powerful
build, especially if I did not try to use strong collar pop type corrections
with it.

Another method that might work is to carry some very high value odiferous
treats with me so that he might focus on the scent and the possibility of
being rewarded occasionally as he pays attention to me rather than the
exciting new sights and scents of the trail ahead. But the bottom line may
be that I am not sufficiently motivated to put the time, energy, and effort
into correcting this habit, which I see as more annoying than dangerous or
unacceptable.

Actually, part of the problem may be that I cannot move at the faster pace
he would like, and also I cannot go far enough with him on our walks to even
begin to tire him out. A daily walk of 1/4-1/2 mile and occasional walks of
2 or 3 miles are not nearly enough to satisfy the
Exercise-Disciple-Affection mantra chanted by Cesar Millan. But he has
survived now for over four years in my care without becoming dangerously
obese or exhibiting any red-zone aggressive or compulsive behaviors.

Maybe I should look into getting him rigged up to a dog cart so he can pull
me along at a fast trot, and also maybe get a treadmill for his use, as well
as perhaps for me. Mostly I am limited by bad knees and back problems that
have become incrementally worse, but perhaps more controlled exercise and
being able to use my arms to take pressure off the lower back may help. I'm
already a candidate for knee replacement and back surgery but most people
say it is better to wait for more advanced procedures or until I practically
cannot walk at all. Most people seem to have been helped by surgery, but
there are a good number who have gotten much worse, and there are no
guarantees of success.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:15:14 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

I've seen the head harness at the park. My impression was a dog of the
conformation of Cash might get hurt if he jerked about in that. Miht be
wrong but we went the other way.

I'm sure there are plenty of dogs for whom the head harness works
fine. There are also plenty who don't like having the contraption on
their face, and I can't say I blame them. Any dog that jerked or
lunged while wearing it could be injured, I'd think. One of the 'old
regulars' had a fairly horrendous story about a greyhound wearing a
head harness on a flexi-lead who took off after something and flipped
over onto its back.

On 4/11/2010 6:18 PM, sighthounds & siberians wrote:


I would use a pinch collar before a choke collar.

That is negative training and isn't needed. I believe that using your
brain is a lot better tool.