Although I think this belongs more in .health, but I'm posting in .behaviour
too, because it is a behaviour, too, sort of.

I've been raw-feeding my 3 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Kiba for
three months now. We started this because he suffers awful allergies,
although both the vet and I are fairly convinced that his triggers are more
environmental than diet-caused. He has been tested, and showed a myriad of
things he's allergic to. While we awaited the test results, I started him
on raw food. Now, in my area, spring and summer are TERRIBLE for Kiba's
allergies. He has actually herniated a disk in his back by flailing his
head violently side to side to chew on his back. It's sad and terrible to
see him so itchy. We've treated him symptomatically, of course, but I
wanted a better solution. So, we started with raw feeding, although I was
already feeding him a premium, no-grain kibble (Orijen brand-6 stars at
dogfoodanalysis.com).

We started raw feeding him on March 6th. The last hot spot Kiba chewed on
his flank was March 16th. He hasn't had much of any reaction since. His
test came back with allergic reactions to a whole spectrum of things.
Cedar: I live in the Pacific Northwest in a cedar forest! Fescue, rye and
timothy grasses, ragweed, sorrel: yikes!! Willow, walnut, and sycamore
trees. *sigh* All kinds of fungii found in the dirt. He's freakin'
allergic to US!! Well, to our skin cells, human epithelials. *sigh* again.
Housedust/mites. Yep and I'm no housekeeper. On to foods: Chicken,
soybean, lamb, barley, potato, carrots, and mildly: wheat. Yikes again!!
Anyone who has started in raw feeding knows that we start with a base of
chicken and work up from there!! *sigh, sigh* again!

He's allergic to some fabrics, but not tobacco smoke. I wish he had that
one. Maybe my daughter would quit smoking if I told her it would make him
sick? But, yippee, he's allergic to HOUSE FLIES!! Who the hell is allergic
to house flies?! My dog. The great hunter of house flies. He and my
husband are fly hunting fools. Kiba spots 'em, Paul knocks 'em out of the
air, Kiba eats 'em. Great team. No more. *sigh* Mild allergic reaction
to fleas and mosquitoes.

But before I was delivered this news, we had started raw feeding, feeding
mostly chicken and turkey, with beef, pork, and organ meats filling in. And
his allergies went away. Well, not totally, but enough that this is the
quietest spring we've had. He has licked a couple of toes, not bare of
hair, but just enough to leave that weird red protein stain. He doesn't
violently kick his ears trying to scratch inside them, he doesn't
frantically chew on his back, trying to eat his way under the skin to
swallow the itchies. He has lost a bit of weight (he gained while laid up
with the herniated disk in his back for five months). He's sleek and good
looking. And even my protesting vet can't argue with success. I've read
Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Eliasen's books, and give Kiba a supplement, just to
"be sure". Dr. Eliasen is a proponent of fasting. His book lays out the
reasons why, which have to do with a canine's digestive system, and makes
sense to me. So, we've been doing that. I started out just fasting Kiba
once a week, and now we fast every other day. It's working out very well
for us. I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I thought you needed
some background. And on to the point of this whole post:

I've noticed a pattern in Kiba's energy. I wasn't sure I was seeing it
correctly at first, but I've been really paying attention the last couple of
weeks, and know it's there. On feeding days, Kiba is his usual self.
Content to laze around, and cuddle in laps, not too demanding for play,
content to rest, not dogged out, but my normal Kiba. NON-feeding days, a
whole different story. His energy goes way up, and he's much more active,
asking to play fetch, playing with his toys alone if we are unavailable,
busy, busy, busy. Last night (a fasting day) he had the zoomies like I
haven't seen since he was a tiny pup. He rampaged, he attacked his toys and
killerated them with great abandon! He dashed from indoors and out, and
back again. He dared me to play with him, but couldn't stay still long
enough for me to grab hold of the other end of the toy. It was very
entertaining, and charming. I see this energy level on fasting days. Now,
Dr. Eliasen says it's because that's how long it takes for a dog's digestive
system to finish it's job. It needs the "feast AND famine" model to work
properly. I think I am seeing the proof of this in Kiba's behaviour. Has
anyone else experienced this? Of course, I am very happy that Kiba is
asymptomatic as far as his allergies go, too. But I would like to hear if
anyone else is seeing the same pattern as I am.

Thanks, Phyrie

On Jun 2, 4:03*am, "Phyrie" wrote:
Although I think this belongs more in .health, but I'm posting in .behaviour
too, because it is a behaviour, too, sort of.

I've been raw-feeding my 3 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Kiba for
three months now. *We started this because he suffers awful allergies,
although both the vet and I are fairly convinced that his triggers are more
environmental than diet-caused. *He has been tested, and showed a myriad of
things he's allergic to. *While we awaited the test results, I started him
on raw food. *Now, in my area, spring and summer are TERRIBLE for Kiba's
allergies. *He has actually herniated a disk in his back by flailing his
head violently side to side to chew on his back. *It's sad and terrible to
see him so itchy. *We've treated him symptomatically, of course, but I
wanted a better solution. *So, we started with raw feeding, although I was
already feeding him a premium, no-grain kibble (Orijen brand-6 stars at
dogfoodanalysis.com).

We started raw feeding him on March 6th. *The last hot spot Kiba chewed on
his flank was March 16th. *He hasn't had much of any reaction since. *His
test came back with allergic reactions to a whole spectrum of things.
Cedar: I live in the Pacific Northwest in a cedar forest! *Fescue, rye and
timothy grasses, ragweed, sorrel: yikes!! *Willow, walnut, and sycamore
trees. **sigh* *All kinds of fungii found in the dirt. *He's freakin'
allergic to US!! *Well, to our skin cells, human epithelials. **sigh* again.
Housedust/mites. *Yep and I'm no housekeeper. *On to foods: Chicken,
soybean, lamb, barley, potato, carrots, and mildly: wheat. *Yikes again!!
Anyone who has started in raw feeding knows that we start with a base of
chicken and work up from there!! **sigh, sigh* again!

He's allergic to some fabrics, but not tobacco smoke. *I wish he had that
one. *Maybe my daughter would quit smoking if I told her it would make him
sick? *But, yippee, he's allergic to HOUSE FLIES!! *Who the hell is allergic
to house flies?! *My dog. *The great hunter of house flies. *He and my
husband are fly hunting fools. *Kiba spots 'em, Paul knocks 'em out of the
air, Kiba eats 'em. *Great team. *No more. **sigh* *Mild allergic reaction
to fleas and mosquitoes.

But before I was delivered this news, we had started raw feeding, feeding
mostly chicken and turkey, with beef, pork, and organ meats filling in. *And
his allergies went away. *Well, not totally, but enough that this is the
quietest spring we've had. *He has licked a couple of toes, not bare of
hair, but just enough to leave that weird red protein stain. *He doesn't
violently kick his ears trying to scratch inside them, he doesn't
frantically chew on his back, trying to eat his way under the skin to
swallow the itchies. *He has lost a bit of weight (he gained while laid up
with the herniated disk in his back for five months). *He's sleek and good
looking. *And even my protesting vet can't argue with success. *I've read
Dr. Lonsdale and Dr. Eliasen's books, and give Kiba a supplement, just to
"be sure". *Dr. Eliasen is a proponent of fasting. *His book lays out the
reasons why, which have to do with a canine's digestive system, and makes
sense to me. *So, we've been doing that. *I started out just fasting Kiba
once a week, and now we fast every other day. *It's working out very well
for us. *I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I thought you needed
some background. *And on to the point of this whole post:

I've noticed a pattern in Kiba's energy. *I wasn't sure I was seeing it
correctly at first, but I've been really paying attention the last couple of
weeks, and know it's there. *On feeding days, Kiba is his usual self.
Content to laze around, and cuddle in laps, not too demanding for play,
content to rest, not dogged out, but my normal Kiba. *NON-feeding days, a
whole different story. *His energy goes way up, and he's much more active,
asking to play fetch, playing with his toys alone if we are unavailable,
busy, busy, busy. *Last night (a fasting day) he had the zoomies like I
haven't seen since he was a tiny pup. *He rampaged, he attacked his toys and
killerated them with great abandon! *He dashed from indoors and out, and
back again. *He dared me to play with him, but couldn't stay still long
enough for me to grab hold of the other end of the toy. *It was very
entertaining, and charming. *I see this energy level on fasting days. *Now,
Dr. Eliasen says it's because that's how long it takes for a dog's digestive
system to finish it's job. *It needs the "feast AND famine" model to work
properly. *I think I am seeing the proof of this in Kiba's behaviour. *Has
anyone else experienced this? *Of course, I am very happy that Kiba is
asymptomatic as far as his allergies go, too. *But I would like to hear if
anyone else is seeing the same pattern as I am.

Thanks, Phyrie

I've never thought much of the fasting approach (my dogs think even
less of it ;-D), but if it's working for you and Kiba, that's great.
I'm glad you found a food that is working for his allergies though.
Allergies in humans or canines can be a huge source of frustration and
illness. Knock on wood, *I* seem to be the only one with them around
here, although Rudy doesn't handle poultry all that well.

Interesting - I had a session with a private training client recently,
discussing food allergy. Reading the ingredients on the "fish"
premium kibble, I was amazed to see an awful lot of poultry in the
ingredient list. It seems the only label reading many people do is
the product name, not the actual ingredient list.

"Janet" wrote in message
...

I've never thought much of the fasting approach (my dogs think even
less of it ;-D), but if it's working for you and Kiba, that's great.
I'm glad you found a food that is working for his allergies though.
Allergies in humans or canines can be a huge source of frustration and
illness. Knock on wood, *I* seem to be the only one with them around
here, although Rudy doesn't handle poultry all that well.

Interesting - I had a session with a private training client recently,
discussing food allergy. Reading the ingredients on the "fish"
premium kibble, I was amazed to see an awful lot of poultry in the
ingredient list. It seems the only label reading many people do is
the product name, not the actual ingredient list.

Heh. I did a great deal of research on dog food before I even brought Kiba
home. I chose one that had actual food in it, and ingredients I recognized
as edible. If I couldn't pronounce it, or even know what it was, I figured
it probably wasn't good for my dog!

Even though Kiba really likes treats, he doesn't seem to mind fasting at
all. He fasted himself on occasion before we started raw feeding, so
perhaps he's naturally inclined to it. He does do a happy dance under the
food dish on feeding days, though!

Kiba's allergies seem to be seasonal. Why the raw feeding is helping, I
have no idea, since when we started, we gave him a great deal of chicken.
Until the allergy tests came back positive to chicken! I still give him
chicken, just less, although he doesn't seem to react to it. The vet
doesn't understand it either, and it really makes the testing process
suspect. I assume it's because he's not being subjected to a LOT of
reactors at the same time. In the Orijen there is four or five things he
tested positive to, so perhaps stopping that was enough for him to remain
symptom free, even when the pollen count is very high. I don't know, but
heck, it's working; who cares why?

Phyrie

On 6/2/2010 7:30 PM, Phyrie wrote:
Why the raw feeding is helping, I
have no idea, since when we started, we gave him a great deal of
chicken. Until the allergy tests came back positive to chicken! I still
give him chicken, just less, although he doesn't seem to react to it.

Just so you know, chicken doesn't have enough zinc and iron in it for a
dog's needs. Red meats do. That is why it is recommended that 80% of the
meats fed should be red meats, 10% should be chicken and 10% should be
fish. However, diets heavy on chicken are still way better than any
kibble. A leg quarter has an almost perfect phos/cal ratio (meat to bone).

The vet doesn't understand it either, and it really makes the testing
process suspect. I assume it's because he's not being subjected to a LOT
of reactors at the same time. In the Orijen there is four or five things
he tested positive to, so perhaps stopping that was enough for him to
remain symptom free, even when the pollen count is very high. I don't
know, but heck, it's working; who cares why?

Imagine that! Raw feeding made the allergies go away. Who would have
thunk it? I mean, it's just unbelievable! Maybe that is why I posted
exactly that over and over again on here.

Char

"Char" wrote

Just so you know, chicken doesn't have enough zinc and iron in it for a
dog's needs. Red meats do. That is why it is recommended that 80% of the
meats fed should be red meats, 10% should be chicken and 10% should be
fish.

Query, where does 'pork' fall in the schema? Also are there any particular
type of raw bone that should be avoided other than the obvious in some fish
bone types?

On 6/3/2010 5:04 PM, cshenk wrote:
"Char" wrote

Just so you know, chicken doesn't have enough zinc and iron in it for
a dog's needs. Red meats do. That is why it is recommended that 80% of
the meats fed should be red meats, 10% should be chicken and 10%
should be fish.

Query, where does 'pork' fall in the schema?

It's a red meat.

Also are there any
particular type of raw bone that should be avoided other than the
obvious in some fish bone types?


Some people avoid large weight bearing bones. Some people even avoid
turkey leg bones. I've fed them and they did just fine. There is no set
rule on this. If they can chew it up it's a source of calcium and if not
it's recreational fun.

Char