"Junoexpress" wrote in message
...

In my case, I think my dog's
behavior is a mixture of curiosity and a bit of fear/wariness. But in
any case, what do you do? Try to avoid these types of situations
(which is difficult to do), lead him away before things get bad, or
try to have him be able to politely get by the encounter without
things getting out of hand?

I asked around for some advice-

"It is more of a testing behaviour, though it depends on the dog.

Some dogs are confident and plain rude, and will do it in a very pushy way,
other dogs are in fact not confident but their anxiety leads them to be
very concerned about where the boundaries are exactly.. so they do it in a
'what happens if i do this..' way.

It as ever, isn't about just the specific mechanics of the behaviour, it's
about the context too - what happens leading up to it, who the dogs
involved are, who else is there, where it happens, and what happens
afterwards.

So have a look at the whole picture, does this dog barrel in and chuck both
front paws on another dogs shoulder/back without as much as a by your
leave? Or is there wary circling and bum sniffing, ears back and cautious
one paw testing, waiting for a reaction.

If a dog is barging in and doing this without any preamble, I would take
steps to stop him doing that and use a long lead and probably stooge dogs
to ensure he has a series of greetings that go nicely and teach him self
control too, and prevent this rude greeting.

If its the other sort then you have to play it by ear a bit more - if the
other dog is as interested as he is in testing like this, I wouldn't worry
too much. If the other dog clearly does not want it and hes being pushy,
then allow him to greet then recall (use a long line if necessary) before
this stage occurs. I would be very wary though about being shouty, or
hoiking him away forcibly when he's testing and wary, because that can tip
the pressure to much and start a spat. Much better to recall by making
excited noises and running the other way. (and having the other dogs owner
do the same). "

"Dogman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:18:09 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:

[...]
Last Saturday we attended Dogfest at the Timonium Fair Grounds and as we
were leaving the ticket area and I wasn't paying close attention,
apparently
Muttley nipped at a young yellow Lab, causing him to yelp. I immediately
gave Muttley a correction and he sat down and looked at me.

Hmmmm. Let me guess. You had him on that long leash you normally use?

Just a standard 6 ft leash, and a harness.


My feeling is that Muttley is just not very playful and would rather be
left
alone by other dogs

So what does that tell you should, or shouldn't, be doing?

I could choose to limit his socialization, but I think it is healthier to
encourage him to interact with other dogs. I may need to be more observant
when there are lots of strange dogs present. As with many situations, one
may either avoid something or deal with it. Avoidance is probably what
Victoria Stilwell would recommend, but I think Muttley's life, and mine,
would be richer if we continue to socialize as much as possible.

Paul and Muttley

(Copied from Google Groups)

On Jun 24, 12:18 am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

My own experience is limited to Muttley, and for a short time, Lucky. I
have tried to analyze what has caused Muttley on some occasions to have a
go at other dogs, and some recent experiences have helped me perhaps to
get closer to finding the answer.

Which one was Muttley? Was the German Shepard or the black (Lab?).

Muttley is a GSD cross, maybe part Mastiff. Muttley's first "victim" was a
black Lab named Bernie. Lucky was another (female) rescue I fostered for
several weeks and finally rehomed. Here are Muttley and Lucky:
http://cygnus.smart.net/~pstech/Mutt...ures/MHL10.jpg
http://cygnus.smart.net/~pstech/Mutt...es_9160034.JPG


happy to see him interact very well with all of them, and the main thing I
noticed was his general independence and aloofness. ... My feeling is that
Muttley is just not very playful and would rather be left alone by other
dogs, so if they encroach on his comfort zone he may issue a correction in
the form of a quick bite and release. Also I think he has a tendency to
challenge a new dog with a stare, and if the other dog reacts aggressively
he will go on the offensive. So, in a sense, he does induce other dogs to
get aggressive as the OP asserts.

I think your dog is different than mine. In my case, I think my dog's
behavior is a mixture of curiosity and a bit of fear/wariness. But in
any case, what do you do? Try to avoid these types of situations
(which is difficult to do), lead him away before things get bad, or
try to have him be able to politely get by the encounter without
things getting out of hand?

I believe it's important to work with a dog so that common occurances such
as meeting other reasonably well-behaved dogs does not result in problems,
but this involves to some extent setting up the dog for possible failure so
as to be able to issue a correction. Avoiding trigger situations severely
limits opportunities for healthy socialization.

BTW, for some reason I'm not getting your posts in my newsreader (Windows
Mail), using Teranews. Anybody else have such problems? I don't have any
filters set up..

Paul and Muttley

Junoexpress wrote:
In retrospect, I think I need to find some way to get my dog's
attention if I am going to try this scheme of leading him away before
things go bad. If I start trying to lead him away without him being
focused on me, it won't work.

Exactly. The leash is no substitute for obedience.

Maybe a piece of cheese under the nose
after he's had a good interaction and a peppy "come on!" might do
it.

Clicker training might suit the situation, too.

--
Mary H. and the restored Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles;
U-CD ANZ Babylon Ranger, CD, RE; ANZ Pas de Duke, RN;
Caris, CGC and rotund Rhia

Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:51:52 +0000 (UTC), Mary Healey wrote:
I'd be just a bit more proactive. Actually, I *am* just a bit more
proactive. Praise him when he interacts appropriately with other dogs
he meets, but call him away from the other dog BEFORE he acts
inappropriately.

How do you know he's going to act inappropriately?

I don't. As I said, I'm proactive about these things. Waiting until
something rude happens, or even until it starts to happen, leaves me a step
behind. Better to do the leadership thing by leading, eh?

How would he ever know what was "INappropriate social behavior" if you
didn't communicate to him what that was by immediately correcting it
when it happened?

Oh, I correct when I'm not quick enough to prevent.

I dunno, I don't see anything to be wary of here. I think you might
find yourself calling your dog away from so many dogs that he might
stop interacting with other dogs altogether, which could happen just
as easily, I would think.

So what if it does? There's no reason for my pack to seek companionship
from strange dogs. Tolerate, yes, I expect them to tolerate other dogs.
Accept every Fido, Spot, and Rover as a new bestest friend? Not so much.

Is it possible that they just don't know what INappropriate behavior
is because you've never communicated to them what that was?

Unlikely. They behave appropriately with one another. The breed standard
includes the phrase "suspicious of strangers" and that seems to go tenfold
for strange dogs. Strangers are given very little leeway in the Big Book
Of Politeness every ACD carries.

--
Mary H. and the restored Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles;
U-CD ANZ Babylon Ranger, CD, RE; ANZ Pas de Duke, RN;
Caris, CGC and rotund Rhia

"Junoexpress" wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 4:51 pm, Mary Healey wrote:

I'd be just a bit more proactive. Actually, I *am* just a bit more
proactive. Praise him when he interacts appropriately with other dogs he
meets, but call him away from the other dog BEFORE he acts
inappropriately.
Then reward, make that REWARD!, and go on your way.

I tried something like this last night.
I was out walking my dog, and a large Golden Retriever we've
encountered once before, came over. The last time the Golden came over
things started to get out of hand, and I simply ended it by telling
him "enough" in a stern voice and he went back across the street.
So yesterday, the Golden came over, and I knew he was not a high
threat, so I let my dog interact with him. My dog sniffs him and I
praise him, but he doesn't notice because he's focused on the other
dog. I figure I'll stop it while things are going well, and when I try
to pull my dog away, this probably made the situation worse, because
my dog started pulling more towards the Golden, began to get hyper,
etc. I was able to tell the Golden to go away and get my dog away from
the situation, but I know there will be dogs I encounter with which
this might not work. I've already had to push away a 150 lb Mastiff,
and I don't want to do that again!

In retrospect, I think I need to find some way to get my dog's
attention if I am going to try this scheme of leading him away before
things go bad. If I start trying to lead him away without him being
focused on me, it won't work. Maybe a piece of cheese under the nose
after he's had a good interaction and a peppy "come on!" might do
it.


Ranger, in particular, "forgets" that he can walk away.

That's a good one! ;)

Matt

Although you've received some good advice, I am having a bit of trouble
understanding your problem. Are you saying if your dog gets excited, or
distracted, you can't physically move him away? Is he very large and strong
and you can't physically do it, or maybe you are using the wrong tools? If
I want to move my dog away from another, I just do it, and I don't
understand why you can't. Although mine is only twenty pounds, maybe it's
easier for me, but I can move my daughter's huge dog around too, if I want
to.

Phyrie

On Jun 24, 11:39*am, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:18:09 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"

wrote:

[...]

Last Saturday we attended Dogfest at the Timonium Fair Grounds and as we
were leaving the ticket area and I wasn't paying close attention, apparently
Muttley nipped at a young yellow Lab, causing him to yelp. I immediately
gave Muttley a correction and he sat down and looked at me.

Hmmmm. Let me guess. You had him on that long leash you normally use?

My feeling is that Muttley is just not very playful and would rather be left
alone by other dogs

So what does that tell you should, or shouldn't, be doing?

--
Dogman

Is there any surprise why I avoid those types of events? Fortunately,
I tend to have pretty good idiot-radar at things like that, as it is
my job to protect my dogs from the "he just wants to say hi" dolts.
I cautions my students to be careful where they bring their dogs as
well, and always be on the lookout for the clueless.