"Alison" wrote
"cshenk" wrote

I'm sorry to lose the ones who cared to talk about dogs and help people
learn new things but it's just too abusive here for viability.

I will be sad if you leave this group You are one of the few people
here that I actually like.

I'm here, but I am tired of trying to start new threads.

3 months, even 1 month ago we had 10-15 threads. 3 weeks ago I got fed up
and we now have 1 thread. Even Paul after many years seems to have tossed
in the towel. Sad but after working to concentrate folks here, it
splintered (OMG, thats OT and belongs in this other dead group) and now all
are dead again except the health group with a few topical threads.

Maybe I will try again, but it's a major uphill battle. Sorry Allison, but
the old timers here are more interested in being 'top dog' than growing the
group.

I'll give one more shot but one of you will have to quote back anything
dogman says.
Carol

[...] create a special area where he is allowed to dig.

then [...] shortly after your yard will look like excavation area -)

Oddly enough, that's not what happened in my yard. *I guess that's
where training comes in, eh?

Or mine. There is one shady spot where we allow them to dig, and they
are content with that.
--Glenn Lyford

"Glenn Lyford" wrote in message
...
[...] create a special area where he is allowed to dig.

then [...] shortly after your yard will look like excavation area -)

Oddly enough, that's not what happened in my yard. I guess that's
where training comes in, eh?

Or mine. There is one shady spot where we allow them to dig, and they
are content with that.
--Glenn Lyford

I must concur, as well. I've never owned a digger, (thankfully) but a very
good friend did, and she gave him ONE spot he may dig in. He excavated a
dog-sized hole to lay in each hot day, and she filled it back in whenever
she thought it was getting too big. Worked out great for everyone. Of
course, he wasn't digging to escape. He just liked to lay in a cool hole.

Phyrie

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:30:07 -0700, "Phyrie"
wrote:



"Glenn Lyford" wrote in message
...
[...] create a special area where he is allowed to dig.

then [...] shortly after your yard will look like excavation area -)

Oddly enough, that's not what happened in my yard. I guess that's
where training comes in, eh?

Or mine. There is one shady spot where we allow them to dig, and they
are content with that.
--Glenn Lyford

I must concur, as well. I've never owned a digger, (thankfully) but a very
good friend did, and she gave him ONE spot he may dig in. He excavated a
dog-sized hole to lay in each hot day, and she filled it back in whenever
she thought it was getting too big. Worked out great for everyone. Of
course, he wasn't digging to escape. He just liked to lay in a cool hole.

Right. That's what my current dogs do, dig for the fun of digging and
then lay in the cool(er) dirt. Now that the weeds have a strong hold
in spite of having very little rain, a certain Borzoi yearling hides
in them and then leaps out and chases Teddy around. It's quite
entertaining. My Siberians did dig to escape, and since we hadn't
buried the fence, we put pavers along the favorite fence-line digging
spots. Over the years we tried bricks, cement blocks, and logs, but
pavers worked the best. With pavers in place to prevent escape, the
Sibes also confined their recreational digging to the allowed crater.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 12:39:26 -0400, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:08:00 +0000 (UTC), Unknown wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 03:42:39 -0400, Jo Wolf wrote:

To get back to the real subject at hand.... The Golden that digs out.
Face up to it, gang, it is not always possible to supervise a dog in
the yard every second.... and boy, can a dog dig out quickly. Just
ask my earlier terriers.

Putting in a wire fence that goes straight down for a foot or so is
fine for some dogs, but doesn't cure fence digging for others. A
foot isn't deep enough for most terriers.... {grin} My 20 lb terriers
moved cement blocks.... and pavers.... along a fence line Think what
a Golden could move....

The L shaped wire extention will normally work nicely IF the base,
on-the-ground, leg of the L is 2-3 feet wide.... not a mere foot.
Something stronger and heavier than chicken wire is advised for a dog
this size. Peg it down with "landscape staples" (lawn and garden
shops, plastic) or v-shaped wire "pegs", flush with the ground. Once
the turf grows through the wire, the pegs/staples can disintegrate....
no problem. The sensation of hitting that wire with the nails... and
pads.... is quite unpleasant. The wire should come up at least 18
inches on the upright fencing for security. Cable ties have worked
well for my yard.... but heavier wire or the J-clips mentioned will
be closer to permanent, and can be installed a bit at a time, as the
cable ties begin to deteriorate.

Jo Wolf

is it wise to compare goldens to terriers ?

How is saying "and boy, can a dog dig out quickly. Just ask my earlier
terriers" comparing Goldens to terriers? Even if it were, I fail to see
how wisdom enters into it in this context.

also why do we talk talk about management technology instead of training
?

Well, I personally believe that the #1 reason dogs dig is because they
enjoy it. There are plenty of things that my dogs would enjoy doing
that I don't let them do for a variety of reasons. Since I think that
dogs need to be allowed to do some dog things that they enjoy doing, I
chose to designate a spot in the yard where they are welcome to dig.


when dogs do what they enjoy under owner's control/supervision I call a
training, it benefits them and owners, let do that on their own and you
create a problem. I believe you see the difference.



if we like to use technology then it should be combine with distraction
technics, well set motion detector that triger distracting sound and/or
water sprayer will work very well

I'm sure it would.

"Dogman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:02:18 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

"Alison" wrote
"cshenk" wrote

I'm sorry to lose the ones who cared to talk about dogs and help people
learn new things but it's just too abusive here for viability.

I will be sad if you leave this group You are one of the few people
here that I actually like.

I'm here, but I am tired of trying to start new threads.

For crissakes, why do you feel the need to start new threads for the
hell of it???

3 months, even 1 month ago we had 10-15 threads. 3 weeks ago I got fed up
and we now have 1 thread. Even Paul after many years seems to have tossed
in the towel.

Maybe he's taking our advice and is actually spending more time
TRAINING Muttley than talking about it? If so, that's great.

Of course, every day is an opportunity to do some training and
socialization, but frankly I'm not doing very much. Today just going on a 2
mile hike was exhausting. But it was good for socialization, and Muttley
very impressively ignored a highly reactive Rottie who was barely being
restrained by his owner at the start of the hike, which was on the NCRR
trail.

I'm still here but I find other venues more interesting and informative.
They also tend to remain available for a longer period of time, and the
posts do not expire after a few days as you have chosen for your posts. Of
course, forums like the Cesar Milan and VS are run by private individuals
and they have moderators who may choose to edit, move or remove posts, and
even attempt to ban or block some people from posting. And an entire forum
can be TOSd as happened to the AOL CBB board a couple years ago. Fortunately
I kept private copies of some threads.

Usenet has been traditionally more durable, but that is ultimately art the
whim of Google.

Maybe I will try again, but it's a major uphill battle. Sorry Allison,
but
the old timers here are more interested in being 'top dog' than growing
the
group.

Please, no more aimless and mindless chatter! Either talk about
specific canine issues, or go somewhere else!

I'll give one more shot but one of you will have to quote back anything
dogman says.

There's no one here asking you to do anything but stick to discussing
dogs!

It might be useful for people to quote you in their replies when you have
useful information that perhaps should be preserved for posterity, rather
than being relegated to the virtual bitbucket after 10 days or so.

Paul and Muttley

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 03:47:03 +0000 (UTC), Unknown
wrote:

also why do we talk talk about management technology instead of training
?

Well, I personally believe that the #1 reason dogs dig is because they
enjoy it. There are plenty of things that my dogs would enjoy doing
that I don't let them do for a variety of reasons. Since I think that
dogs need to be allowed to do some dog things that they enjoy doing, I
chose to designate a spot in the yard where they are welcome to dig.


when dogs do what they enjoy under owner's control/supervision I call a
training, it benefits them and owners, let do that on their own and you
create a problem. I believe you see the difference.

I think that just letting a dog do something he likes to do under the
owner's supervision can be training, in that the owner is passively
trianing the dog that whatever he's doing is acceptable behavior. Of
course, that's not all there is to training. I'm not clear on what
you're saying here though - are you saying that a specific behavior,
if done under the owner's control or supervision, is training; but the
same behavior, if not done under control/supervision is going to
create a problem?

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 01:33:21 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:


It might be useful for people to quote you in their replies when you have
useful information that perhaps should be preserved for posterity, rather
than being relegated to the virtual bitbucket after 10 days or so.

What's useful for one person might not be for another. When I see
information on usenet/email/moderated groups that I want to have
available forever, I print it and put it in a file. Much easier for
me to find it that way than to hunt in archives for it.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:28:05 -0400, Dogman wrote:

I will be sad if you leave this group You are one of the few people
here that I actually like.

I'm here, but I am tired of trying to start new threads.

For crissakes, why do you feel the need to start new threads for the
hell of it???

Clearly, different people have different expectations of the usenet
dog groups. Even in moderated groups with heavier traffic, there are
times when very little discussion is going on, likely because people
are busy doing other things. When this group was at its busiest,
people didn't feel obligated to start threads just to make sure there
was discussion going on. If someone had a question, comment,
experience to relate, etc., they posted it.

Maybe I will try again, but it's a major uphill battle. Sorry Allison, but
the old timers here are more interested in being 'top dog' than growing the
group.

Once again, different perceived purposes/needs of the group.
Personally, I am not interested in being top dog, whatever that would
mean for an unmoderated usenet group. I answer questions when I feel
that I have the knowledge or experience to do so. I don't feel a need
or a responsibility to try to get people go come here or to grow the
group.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 09:56:44 -0400, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 03:47:03 +0000 (UTC), Unknown wrote:

also why do we talk talk about management technology instead of
training ?

Well, I personally believe that the #1 reason dogs dig is because they
enjoy it. There are plenty of things that my dogs would enjoy doing
that I don't let them do for a variety of reasons. Since I think that
dogs need to be allowed to do some dog things that they enjoy doing, I
chose to designate a spot in the yard where they are welcome to dig.


when dogs do what they enjoy under owner's control/supervision I call a
training, it benefits them and owners, let do that on their own and you
create a problem. I believe you see the difference.

I think that just letting a dog do something he likes to do under the
owner's supervision can be training, in that the owner is passively
trianing the dog that whatever he's doing is acceptable behavior. Of
course, that's not all there is to training. I'm not clear on what
you're saying here though - are you saying that a specific behavior, if
done under the owner's control or supervision, is training; but the same
behavior, if not done under control/supervision is going to create a
problem?

when you allow to dig that's like teaching to dig, you may improve dogs
drive for digging. have him dig on command and teach him to stop.
The point here is to control dogs behavior that it is somehow beneficial
to owner. Example: I like my dog/s to bark to make me aware something is
happening around my yard, yet they stop when told to do so, it would be
nuisance if I left them without supervision.