On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 14:41:24 +0000 (UTC), sonofdog
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 09:56:44 -0400, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 03:47:03 +0000 (UTC), Unknown wrote:

also why do we talk talk about management technology instead of
training ?

Well, I personally believe that the #1 reason dogs dig is because they
enjoy it. There are plenty of things that my dogs would enjoy doing
that I don't let them do for a variety of reasons. Since I think that
dogs need to be allowed to do some dog things that they enjoy doing, I
chose to designate a spot in the yard where they are welcome to dig.


when dogs do what they enjoy under owner's control/supervision I call a
training, it benefits them and owners, let do that on their own and you
create a problem. I believe you see the difference.

I think that just letting a dog do something he likes to do under the
owner's supervision can be training, in that the owner is passively
trianing the dog that whatever he's doing is acceptable behavior. Of
course, that's not all there is to training. I'm not clear on what
you're saying here though - are you saying that a specific behavior, if
done under the owner's control or supervision, is training; but the same
behavior, if not done under control/supervision is going to create a
problem?

when you allow to dig that's like teaching to dig, you may improve dogs
drive for digging. have him dig on command and teach him to stop.
The point here is to control dogs behavior that it is somehow beneficial
to owner. Example: I like my dog/s to bark to make me aware something is
happening around my yard, yet they stop when told to do so, it would be
nuisance if I left them without supervision.

Ah, I see. We're going to have to disagree on this one. I don't wish
to control every aspect of my dogs' behavior, nor do I require every
aspect of their behavior to be somehow beneficial to me.

On 6/27/2010 2:48 PM, cshenk wrote:
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

Enjoy your rapidly dying group. Posts like this are exactly why it is
as it
is dying.

It's not dying any more rapidly than it had been in the past 6 months.
In fact, less so; there are always new people with questions.

Please name a new poster after me, who is still here.


I've seen many people run off of here since I've been here. You haven't
met all of the old gang that used to post here but it's no different
from what you see now, just in larger quantities.

Why bother arguing about it? We know it's real, they know it's real.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
Dogman wrote:

I'm here, but I am tired of trying to start new threads.

For crissakes, why do you feel the need to start new threads for the
hell of it???

To keep the place alive.

Once again, different perceived purposes/needs of the group.
Personally, I am not interested in being top dog, whatever that would
mean for an unmoderated usenet group. I answer questions when I feel
that I have the knowledge or experience to do so. I don't feel a need
or a responsibility to try to get people go come here or to grow the
group.

I'm just interested in discussion on dog behavior and training.

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote

Of course, every day is an opportunity to do some training and
socialization, but frankly I'm not doing very much. Today just going on a
2 mile hike was exhausting. But it was good for socialization, and Muttley
very impressively ignored a highly reactive Rottie who was barely being
restrained by his owner at the start of the hike, which was on the NCRR
trail.

Thats good news on Muttley! He's getting the hand of it that you don't like
his previous behavior.

Usenet has been traditionally more durable, but that is ultimately art the
whim of Google.

Or the cable systems. Cox removes newsgroups end of this month. I'm on
Giganews now. I think that was the last of the bigger providers who had it
as a feature.

Since neither Muttley nor Cash are much on the digging angle (at least on
digging out of enclosures) I'll vacate this thread.

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
" I'm here,

Glad to hear that.

but I am tired of trying to start new threads.

You don't have to do that, though.

Sorry Allison, but
the old timers here are more interested in being 'top dog' than growing
the
group.

*Some* old timers are but not all of us.

Al

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 11:31:40 -0400, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

I think that just letting a dog do something he likes to do under the
owner's supervision can be training, in that the owner is passively
trianing the dog that whatever he's doing is acceptable behavior. Of
course, that's not all there is to training. I'm not clear on what
you're saying here though - are you saying that a specific behavior,
if done under the owner's control or supervision, is training; but the
same behavior, if not done under control/supervision is going to
create a problem?

when you allow to dig that's like teaching to dig, you may improve dogs
drive for digging. have him dig on command and teach him to stop. The
point here is to control dogs behavior that it is somehow beneficial to
owner. Example: I like my dog/s to bark to make me aware something is
happening around my yard, yet they stop when told to do so, it would be
nuisance if I left them without supervision.

Ah, I see. We're going to have to disagree on this one. I don't wish to
control every aspect of my dogs' behavior, nor do I require every aspect
of their behavior to be somehow beneficial to me.

you do not have to, selection of controls and aspects belongs to you

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote

Of course, every day is an opportunity to do some training and
socialization, but frankly I'm not doing very much. Today just going on a
2 mile hike was exhausting. But it was good for socialization, and
Muttley very impressively ignored a highly reactive Rottie who was barely
being restrained by his owner at the start of the hike, which was on the
NCRR trail.

Thats good news on Muttley! He's getting the hand of it that you don't
like his previous behavior.

Well, actually, he has been able to ignore other dogs pretty well for as
long as I can remember. Especially when they are being loud and obnoxious.
His bad behavior has been totally unexpected, and the only time I may have
caught it before he went into attack mode was when he may have first stared
at a young black Lab, and I noticed the Lab start to react with a hint of a
growl and baring of teeth, so I pulled him away. Another second might have
been a different story.


Usenet has been traditionally more durable, but that is ultimately art
the whim of Google.

Or the cable systems. Cox removes newsgroups end of this month. I'm on
Giganews now. I think that was the last of the bigger providers who had
it as a feature.

Since neither Muttley nor Cash are much on the digging angle (at least on
digging out of enclosures) I'll vacate this thread.

When I first got Muttley I put him in a kennel which was about 8 ft square
and 4 ft high. It was made of chain link fencing on steel pipe, and I also
put a top on it made from steel garden fencing material. I heard some noise
outside and I found that he had pried the fencing loose from the bottom
steel pipe and he had gotten out, although he was still tethered with a
choker chain. He had been wearing a cone collar because of his recent
castration, but it was ripped up from his escape artistry.

Paul and Muttley

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
Dogman wrote:

I'm here, but I am tired of trying to start new threads.

For crissakes, why do you feel the need to start new threads for the
hell of it???

To keep the place alive.

Sometimes I like the simple text-based interface and no-nonsense style of
posting and responding, but it is also sometimes good to have more traffic
even if some of it is not really on-topic. Forums like this tend to develop
a camaraderie among the regulars and I enjoy reading about and posting
things that are of more general interest, or just anecdotes about dogs.

But, really, I have found that, for me, the Cesar Millan forum is the most
friendly, helpful, and interesting:
http://community.sessionswithcesar.com/forums/

Once again, different perceived purposes/needs of the group.
Personally, I am not interested in being top dog, whatever that would
mean for an unmoderated usenet group. I answer questions when I feel
that I have the knowledge or experience to do so. I don't feel a need
or a responsibility to try to get people go come here or to grow the
group.

I'm just interested in discussion on dog behavior and training.

Same here. But some people may not enjoy chit chat so much and would rather
just submit problems and ideas for solution.

Paul and Muttley

On Jun 24, 7:44*am, Matt wrote:
Hi all:

I have a golden that likes to dig, and especially escape any place he's
contained in.

We are now contemplating what to do. If we bury the fence the full 12",
will that be enough? What other ideas do you all have, so we can do
something ONCE and have him contained and safe?


Since I dumped my newsreader, I've been using Google and it sucks -
haven't been able to post in a week. Oh well - maybe this time.

I'll echo some of the suggestions - a) stop leaving your dog outdoors
and unattended. If you intend to do so, you must build a secure
enclosure with shelter and some sort of way to deal with climate. b)
if you want to be able to let your dog out to eliminate without you
being there and he's hellbent on digging out that fast, first consider
what is lacking in his life - exercise, training, etc. c) is there
something really appealing on the other side of the fence? another
dog? Supervision and training is the key, but you can do the chicken
wire thing to give you some extra time. Chicken wire won't do squat
for a dog determined to get out if left on his own all day.

I have a lovely golden as well. He is outdoors on his own for periods
of time, but it is with other dogs, so he has built in entertainment.
That and his apple tree. There was a period of time where he was
desperate to play with the dog who lived behind us. We had a damaged
chain link fence at the time, and he figured out how to scoot under,
just like the bunnies did. We used tent pegs along the bottom of the
fence. The only time there was an issue was if someone wasn't paying
attention. We have a nice picket fence now instead (4' and no, none of
my dogs jump it or even try), and there is no issue. Of course, when
I am not home, he is safely indoors. When I am home, he is
supervised, at least from a door or window. Just as all of my dogs
are. It's good policy.