Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.
--
thedalpal

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:07:14 +0000 (UTC), sonofdog
wrote:

Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.

I have not raised puppies younger than 3-4 months. I don't agree with
much/most of his basic premises, nor do I wish to control every minute
of my dogs' lives.

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:59:21 -0400, Dogman wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:07:14 +0000 (UTC), sonofdog wrote:

Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.

Which part do you want the comments on?

any that you like or dislike, that is up to you

Do you generally agree, disagree, etc.

I'm kind of old school, trained my dogs with food and/or verbal rewards,
negative reinforcements and /or physical correction. In general I like
Leeburg's concept.

I haven't trained dogs for a few year snow. Last Sunday I brought home 8
weeks old puppy (GSP), play-training is under way and will try new (to
me) ways.
--
thedalpal

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:41:18 -0400, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:07:14 +0000 (UTC), sonofdog wrote:

Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.

I have not raised puppies younger than 3-4 months. I don't agree with
much/most of his basic premises, nor do I wish to control every minute
of my dogs' lives.

Any reasons for disagreeing ?

Well, older/adult/adolescent dogs can be resocialized and often need it.
I do like to control my own life so I control lives of my pets, otherwise
others will do that the way I may not like it.
--
thedalpal

On Jul 8, 11:58*am, Dogman wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:38:58 +0000 (UTC), andal wrote:

[...]

Well, older/adult/adolescent dogs can be resocialized and often need it.

To some extent, yes. But the first 16 weeks of a puppy's life is
officially called the Socialization period, and is *critical* to a
dog's ability to fulfil its potential.

So please don't think that you can properly socialize a dog at any old
time, because you really can't.

Once those critical first 16 weeks are over, they can never be
duplicated, so spend them wisely.

Yes, absolutely, and thanks to Dogman I don't have to write so much
now to explain why I disagree with some of what Frawley says (I didn't
read the whole reference, just skimmed over part of it). Most of the
dogs I've had in my adult life have been rescues, and most of those
rescues have been ex-racing greyhounds. Fortunately for the breed,
the overwhelming majority of ex-racers are pretty outgoing and
although many are initially a little unsure in new situations and some
startle or spook at objects (aaaah! a cement pig!), they quickly
learn to adapt to them. Their adaptability is a Very Good Thing
considering the sheer number of them looking for homes every year.
There is, however, a percentage of them that are genetically somewhat
fearful, and when that hard-wired fearfulness is combined with the
poor socialization they receive, they are lifetime spooks. Many of
them become *almost* normal over a period of years, but they're much
harder to place.

Feaful dogs have sort of become my specialty. I see (and keep) dogs
that have not had socialization during that critical puppy period, and
I am here to tell you that you cannot fix problems that result from
lack of socialization during that time. The dogs can improve - with
much patience on the part of the owner, often with drugs, and with
much time - but they will always be fearful dogs. My first rescue
Borzoi had never been outside until Animal Control seized her and her
27 housemates. The result was a dog that was initially afraid of the
dark, of wind, of leaves...and was never really comfortable outdoors
during her entire life.

Socialization isn't just teaching a puppy that it should look to the
owner to determine how to react to new people, places and things.
Socialization enables a dog to have self-confidence in those
situations, and I want that in a dog. That way my dog will be OK at
the vet's not only if I'm there with him/her, but also if I have to
leave him/her. Unlike what happened when Nikita had to have more
teeth and some growths removed last week, and did fine when I was
there but fell apart when I left her. Fortunately, she did not fear
bite.

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:52:15 -0400, Dogman wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:27:23 +0000 (UTC), andal wrote:

[...]
Do you generally agree, disagree, etc.

I'm kind of old school, trained my dogs with food and/or verbal rewards,
negative reinforcements and /or physical correction. In general I like
Leeburg's concept.

I think Frawley (at Leerburg) is a little too paranoid about allowing
puppies to meet new people, but that could be because he primarily
trains protection-type dogs, and is trying to retain their aloofness.

I'm paranoid too, coz people are ...., and I do not mind aloofness in my
dog at all, and I'm not sure if all aloof dogs(breeds) would make good
protection dogs(like GSD)

I primarily train retrievers, and you generally have to shoot a
retriever puppy in the head to prevent him from interacting with new
people.


Interacting with new people is ok as long as it is allowed.

I haven't trained dogs for a few year snow. Last Sunday I brought home 8
weeks old puppy (GSP), play-training is under way and will try new (to
me) ways.

If he's from working lines, your restful days are now over.

I just retired and I will enjoy my time, puppy comes from working lines,I
knew breeder personally and have seen some of his dogs in action. My
choice was not a coincidence.

Also, I
wouldn't use Leerburg's socialization program with your new puppy,
because GSPs aren't protection dogs, and need to meet as many new people
as possible in those first 16 weeks. If you haven't raised a puppy in a
while, you'd be better off reading a good book, e.g., After You Get Your
Puppy, by Ian Dunbar, The Art of Raising a Puppy, by The Monks of New
Skete, etc.

You bet, just rereading it. I visited my puppy few times before taking
him home. Breeder did his part too, puppy loves people.He is already
crate trained, responds to his name,comes when called, of course all
still as in play so the bond is strengthening.

Take care
--
thedalpal

"sonofdog" wrote in message
...
Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.

I am very familiar with the Leerburg website and his methods. There is also
an excellent video about puppy behavior and dominance issues as well as how
to safely break up a dog fight and what can happen if you do it wrong:
http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

Since my only experience has been with adult dogs rescued from a semi-wild
existence, I don't know if I would agree with everything that Frawley has to
say about puppy socialization. I know it is important, and it may have had
some bearing on the way Muttley is now. I would agree that people who are
allowed to interact with the puppies should be at least basically dog-savvy,
but then again it is also probably good for the pup to experience a wide
range of people especially if he will be interacting with the general public
later in life.

A lot depends on the particular breed as well as variations in temperament.
I recognize that Muttley is probably more in the protection dog spectrum and
thus he is somewhat aloof and wary of strangers. But he is good with meeting
people once he gets past his initial fear and then he mostly ignores them.
So he is not at all like a Lab or GR. At this point I think it is important
for him to interact with new people and dogs as much as possible, but not to
the point where I force him into situations where he is uncomfortable. It is
probably especially important for him to socialize with other dogs, but I
think they need to be similarly aloof and respectful of his space. He did
very well interacting with an existing balanced pack of dogs at a shelter in
early June:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulAndM.../0/9YjI1RJ3vfY

It might be valuable to take an adolescent puppy to a place like this, to
learn by virtue of the "power of the pack". But much of the credit for the
harmony must go to the owner of the shelter who rehabilitates them using
many of the principles of Cesar Millan.

What think ye?

Paul and Muttley

"sonofdog" wrote in message
...
Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.

I am very familiar with the Leerburg website and his methods. There is also
an excellent video about puppy behavior and dominance issues as well as how
to safely break up a dog fight and what can happen if you do it wrong:
http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

Since my only experience has been with adult dogs rescued from a semi-wild
existence, I don't know if I would agree with everything that Frawley has to
say about puppy socialization. I know it is important, and it may have had
some bearing on the way Muttley is now. I would agree that people who are
allowed to interact with the puppies should be at least basically dog-savvy,
but then again it is also probably good for the pup to experience a wide
range of people especially if he will be interacting with the general public
later in life.

A lot depends on the particular breed as well as variations in temperament.
I recognize that Muttley is probably more in the protection dog spectrum and
thus he is somewhat aloof and wary of strangers. But he is good with meeting
people once he gets past his initial fear and then he mostly ignores them.
So he is not at all like a Lab or GR. At this point I think it is important
for him to interact with new people and dogs as much as possible, but not to
the point where I force him into situations where he is uncomfortable. It is
probably especially important for him to socialize with other dogs, but I
think they need to be similarly aloof and respectful of his space. He did
very well interacting with an existing balanced pack of dogs at a shelter in
early June:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulAndM.../0/9YjI1RJ3vfY

It might be valuable to take an adolescent puppy to a place like this, to
learn by virtue of the "power of the pack". But much of the credit for the
harmony must go to the owner of the shelter who rehabilitates them using
many of the principles of Cesar Millan.

What think ye?

Paul and Muttley

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:35:53 -0400, Dogman wrote:


Interacting with new people is ok as long as it is allowed.

With my dogs, it's always allowed. Even encouraged. That doesn't mean
jumping up on people, mouthing them, etc., but I want to see friendly
greetings, tails wagging, etc. I don't want anyone wondering whether my
dog is friendly, especially children. So, no, my dogs don't require my
permission to greet someone. But that doesn't mean that others may not
have a different, but equally legitimate way of looking at this.


unfortunately some people, eg. intoxicated or with unruly children, do
not deserve greetings, I'm sure you can imagine situations like this.
Yet I got your point.
--
thedalpal

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:43:45 -0400, Paul E. Schoen wrote:

"sonofdog" wrote in message
...
Greetings All

Just wandering if anyone here did this way:

http://leerburg.com/pdf/socializepuppies.pdf

Please comment.

I am very familiar with the Leerburg website and his methods. There is
also an excellent video about puppy behavior and dominance issues as
well as how to safely break up a dog fight and what can happen if you do
it wrong: http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

Since my only experience has been with adult dogs rescued from a
semi-wild existence, I don't know if I would agree with everything that
Frawley has to say about puppy socialization. I know it is important,
and it may have had some bearing on the way Muttley is now. I would
agree that people who are allowed to interact with the puppies should be
at least basically dog-savvy, but then again it is also probably good
for the pup to experience a wide range of people especially if he will
be interacting with the general public later in life.

A lot depends on the particular breed as well as variations in
temperament. I recognize that Muttley is probably more in the protection
dog spectrum and thus he is somewhat aloof and wary of strangers. But he
is good with meeting people once he gets past his initial fear and then
he mostly ignores them. So he is not at all like a Lab or GR. At this
point I think it is important for him to interact with new people and
dogs as much as possible, but not to the point where I force him into
situations where he is uncomfortable. It is probably especially
important for him to socialize with other dogs, but I think they need to
be similarly aloof and respectful of his space. He did very well
interacting with an existing balanced pack of dogs at a shelter in early
June:

http://www.youtube.com/user/PaulAndM.../0/9YjI1RJ3vfY

It might be valuable to take an adolescent puppy to a place like this,
to learn by virtue of the "power of the pack". But much of the credit
for the harmony must go to the owner of the shelter who rehabilitates
them using many of the principles of Cesar Millan.

What think ye?

Paul and Muttley

Paul, imo taking a puppy to place like that is too risky. Also if puppy
comes from a knowledgeable breeder it will already know the pack
structure. Frawley's first of all advice is to prevent instead of fixing
and I agree with that.


Take care & and please be careful with coyotes ;-)
--
thedalpal