"Char" wrote in message
...
On 8/8/2010 5:54 AM, Amanda George wrote:
"Char" wrote in message
...
On 8/7/2010 2:51 PM, Amanda George wrote:
Hello everyone

I've been lurking in the groups I'm cross-posting to for about a
month so
thought I would come out of lurkerhood to introduce myself and Mitzi
then
ask this question of you all - I hope that's OK?

Mitzi is almost a perfect (she eats around her pills and is on
antibiotics
as her previous owner let her get so badly attacked by fleas that she
only
had half a body of fur and her skin was purple when we bought her
home so
she's got to have her vaccines again when she's finished the
anti-biotics)

Vaccines are not to be given to a dog that is not totally healthy. The
manufacturers say that explicitly on the literature that comes with
the vaccines. Indeed, doing that may cause the problem to worsen.


Thank you Char! She's a totally healthy puppy apart from the skin
condition but even that has improved really well to the pills and
shampooing and her fur is now totally back, it just needs to thicken up
a bit more is all :-)

To help her overcome this skin condition you should consider putting
her on a raw diet and supplement with probiotics as well. Fleas tend
to go after weakened animals which means she wasn't in good shape to
begin with. Are you sure it's just a reaction to fleas and not mange?
Either can be a result of a really poor diet. I'd get her off grains
right away.


She's on a dry diet with a raw carrot as a treat a couple of times a day
and she seems to be doing really well on it! :-)

Dry dog food and carrots can both cause skin conditions as you describe so
obviously she isn't doing well on it. Dry dog foods contain grains which
cause skin allergies and carrots contain sugar which can do the same
thing. Both are carbohydrates and not needed in a dog's diet. Raw is by
far the best solution and will totally eliminate the problem.

Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was growing
back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I follow the
vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet food and hope she
likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?

Second best is going with a grain free commercial dog food. Dry dog food
also doesn't contain nearly enough water that a species appropriate diet
gives, and adding a drink of water on the side does not make up for that.
Feed canned only. Wellness is a good brand but there are others. It's also
more expensive than feeding raw.


I'm in the UK and have never heard of the Wellness brand before!


Char

BTW, I added the health group which is where it fits best.

Thank you Char!

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:45:39 +0100, "Amanda George"
wrote:

"Char" wrote in message
...
[...]
Dry dog food and carrots can both cause skin conditions as you describe so
obviously she isn't doing well on it. Dry dog foods contain grains which
cause skin allergies and carrots contain sugar which can do the same
thing. Both are carbohydrates and not needed in a dog's diet. Raw is by
far the best solution and will totally eliminate the problem.

Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was growing
back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I follow the
vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet food and hope she
likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?

If she's doing really well right now, Amanda, I think you should stick
with what you're doing, i.e., listening to your VETERINARIAN. Not some
Usenet evangelist who's concerned with pushing her anti-kibble agenda.
On the other hand, if what you're doing ceases to work (for whatever
reason), that's when it would be a good time to consider a Plan B. But
do it in conjunction with your VETERINARIAN.

It really makes no sense to fix what ain't broke.

--
Dogman

On 8/11/2010 2:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:45:39 +0100, "Amanda George"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
[...]
Dry dog food and carrots can both cause skin conditions as you describe so
obviously she isn't doing well on it. Dry dog foods contain grains which
cause skin allergies and carrots contain sugar which can do the same
thing. Both are carbohydrates and not needed in a dog's diet. Raw is by
far the best solution and will totally eliminate the problem.

Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was growing
back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I follow the
vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet food and hope she
likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?

If she's doing really well right now, Amanda, I think you should stick
with what you're doing, i.e., listening to your VETERINARIAN. Not some
Usenet evangelist who's concerned with pushing her anti-kibble agenda.
On the other hand, if what you're doing ceases to work (for whatever
reason), that's when it would be a good time to consider a Plan B. But
do it in conjunction with your VETERINARIAN.

It really makes no sense to fix what ain't broke.


The dog has skin itchies. Kibble does cause that and so do carrots.
That's not a problem to you? I've seen these same conditions cured with
a move away from grains or carbs many times.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:35:57 -0400, Char
wrote:

On 8/11/2010 2:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:45:39 +0100, "Amanda George"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
[...]
Dry dog food and carrots can both cause skin conditions as you describe so
obviously she isn't doing well on it. Dry dog foods contain grains which
cause skin allergies and carrots contain sugar which can do the same
thing. Both are carbohydrates and not needed in a dog's diet. Raw is by
far the best solution and will totally eliminate the problem.

Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was growing
back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I follow the
vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet food and hope she
likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?

If she's doing really well right now, Amanda, I think you should stick
with what you're doing, i.e., listening to your VETERINARIAN. Not some
Usenet evangelist who's concerned with pushing her anti-kibble agenda.
On the other hand, if what you're doing ceases to work (for whatever
reason), that's when it would be a good time to consider a Plan B. But
do it in conjunction with your VETERINARIAN.

It really makes no sense to fix what ain't broke.

The dog has skin itchies. Kibble does cause that

It's never caused it for any of my dogs.

and so do carrots.
That's not a problem to you?

According to Amanda, that's in the past. What part of "doing so well
on it" NOW do you not understand?

So, no, at this point anyway, it's not a problem for me, and it
apparently isn't a problem for the dog, either.

So, since nothing's broke right now, there's nothing to fix right now.

If the itchies return, Amanda can always return to the VETERINARIAN
and discuss a Plan B.

--
Dogman

Amanda George wrote:

"Char" wrote in message
...
snip
Dry dog food and carrots can both cause skin conditions as you describe so
obviously she isn't doing well on it. Dry dog foods contain grains which
cause skin allergies and carrots contain sugar which can do the same
thing. Both are carbohydrates and not needed in a dog's diet. Raw is by
far the best solution and will totally eliminate the problem.

Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was growing
back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I follow the
vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet food and hope she
likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?
snip
Char can be confusing. She has a few refrains that she tries to fit into
everone's world, and doesn't recognize when it is in discord with how
the real world works. "Grains are bad" is not her only refrain, but it
is her most common one, and repeatedly bringing it up can just distract
from the real issues, if any.

--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

Char wrote:
snip

The dog has skin itchies. Kibble does cause that and so do carrots.
That's not a problem to you? I've seen these same conditions cured with
a move away from grains or carbs many times.

Can cause and does cause are two differnt things, and you have very
limited experience with dogs.

In termsl of allergies carbohydrates (sugars and starches) are about as
neutral a category of chemicals as you can get. Their overuse can lead
to weight and diabetes problems, but those are separate issues. A few
whole grains contain proteins in addition to their carbohydrates that
can raise allergy issues, wheat is the most notorious in this regard,
but these usually also result in digestive problems. Corn for some
reason behaves oddly as roughage for many dogs, causing digestive
problems that do not seem to be allergy based.

For problems that manifest themselves as skin itches and not as
significant digestive issues, I would eliminate the most common allergen
producing grains, but not starches as a category. That is easy and cheap
to do. Then I would start working through the vast array of other
possible causes of skin irritation: insect bites, shampoos and
conditioners, perfumes intended to hide odor, favorite resting spots in
the garden that might hide insects, fertilizer, or weed killer, unusual
plants the dog likes to chew on, chemicals from carpet cleaners, unusual
(e.g. wool) rugs, the hand cream I might be accidently transfering to
the dog's skin, .... T

he world consists of far more than the food we give our dogs.

--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

On 8/11/2010 12:45 PM, Amanda George wrote:


Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was
growing back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I
follow the vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet
food and hope she likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?

Did you know that vets are taught about nutrition by kibble companies?
Don't wonder why your vet doesn't know about these other choices.

Would it hurt to try going grain free just to see if the itching stops?
Not all canned is grain free BTW.

It's hard to tell exactly what in the diet is causing the itching when
there are so many ingredients. I'm just suggesting the most common
causes. That's a huge benefit of feeding raw. You can feed one single
type of meat at a time and will know exactly what the problem is.

On 8/11/2010 8:56 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:35:57 -0400,
wrote:

On 8/11/2010 2:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:45:39 +0100, "Amanda George"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
[...]
Dry dog food and carrots can both cause skin conditions as you describe so
obviously she isn't doing well on it. Dry dog foods contain grains which
cause skin allergies and carrots contain sugar which can do the same
thing. Both are carbohydrates and not needed in a dog's diet. Raw is by
far the best solution and will totally eliminate the problem.

Really? On our last visit to the vet, she (the vet) said to keep feeding
Mitzi the dried food as she was doing so well on it (Mitzi's fur was growing
back faster than anyone expected)! I'm confused now... do I follow the
vet's advice and keep feeding Mitzi the dry or swap to wet food and hope she
likes it and that it is doing more for her than the dry?

If she's doing really well right now, Amanda, I think you should stick
with what you're doing, i.e., listening to your VETERINARIAN. Not some
Usenet evangelist who's concerned with pushing her anti-kibble agenda.
On the other hand, if what you're doing ceases to work (for whatever
reason), that's when it would be a good time to consider a Plan B. But
do it in conjunction with your VETERINARIAN.

It really makes no sense to fix what ain't broke.

The dog has skin itchies. Kibble does cause that

It's never caused it for any of my dogs.

And how is that relevant in any way? You'd lie about it to make a point
anyhow.

On 8/11/2010 12:45 PM, Amanda George wrote:

Thank you Char! She's a totally healthy puppy apart from the skin
condition but even that has improved really well to the pills and
shampooing and her fur is now totally back, it just needs to thicken up
a bit more is all :-)


What pills is she taking?

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 14:42:26 -0400, Char
wrote:

[...]
If she's doing really well right now, Amanda, I think you should stick
with what you're doing, i.e., listening to your VETERINARIAN. Not some
Usenet evangelist who's concerned with pushing her anti-kibble agenda.
On the other hand, if what you're doing ceases to work (for whatever
reason), that's when it would be a good time to consider a Plan B. But
do it in conjunction with your VETERINARIAN.

It really makes no sense to fix what ain't broke.

The dog has skin itchies. Kibble does cause that

It's never caused it for any of my dogs.

And how is that relevant in any way?

William Clodius did a good job of explaining that to you. Read his
post (again?), and then if you still don't understand it, let me know,
and I'll try to walk you through it, word by word.

Start with this: "Can cause and does cause are two different things."

Like some dogs, some folks just need more repetitions than others
before they "get it."

You'd lie about it to make a point anyhow.

Once you're able to wrap your little brain around the point that
Clodius was trying to make (WARNING! No one should try to hold his or
her breath while waiting for that to happen!), you might eventually
realize that there's no need for anyone to lie about something the
vast majority of dog owners enjoy. I.e., absolutely ZERO problems
(ever!) with feeding their dog(s) a high-quality kibble.

Note to self: Write the folks at the American Psychiatric Association
and ask them to add "kibbleophobia" to the list of known phobias in
the next edition of The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders.

--
Dogman