On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 10:38:02 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

[...]
PS: You'd have been wise to listen more closely to what Jim Manson
(who mostly lurks) told you soon after you arrived:

I've found most of the posters on here are very helpful, knowledgeable
and usually entertaining. New posters are normally welcomed unless
they turn out be spammers, trolls or other undesirable.

I've been back thru some of the older threads and saw quite a bit of
criticism and bashing. It isn't just me, there've been others.

I didn't say there was never any bashing. And criticism is part and
parcel of any DISCUSSION group. But the people who get bashed (the
Carols, the Pauls, the Chars, etc.) usually have it coming, and have a
history of bashing others. But smart people, people like Manson,
accept the help, the good advice, and even the entertainment, and
otherwise mind their own business.

And since you find your programming group such a Garden of Eden, and
the dog groups as the Nine Circles of Hell, please, if for no other
reason than your salvation, spend more time there, and less time here.

--
Dogman

"Dogman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 17:01:42 -0700, "Phyrie"
Last night Kiba was laying in my husband's armchair. Kiba gave a few
barks,
as he heard something rustle (probably me moving something over on my
couch). He's sensitive that way, and it's annoying as hell. Sometimes he
barks at dogs on TV, or a noise outside, but I find it particularly
irritating when it's a noise I make myself. I ordered him quiet, and just
to reinforce it, I told him to put his nose on his paws. I added my two
fingers pointing downward (our signal for "down". Around here, "down" is
"nose on your paws"). He just looked at me. I continued holding out my
fingers, pointing downward. My arm started getting tired. Kiba would
look
into my eyes, then look away, pretending he didn't see the hand signal.
Finally, he obeyed. Down went his nose, head on paws. I gave it a few
seconds, and then a "Good dog! OK." And he jumped down, came over to me,
and I gave him a treat. Paul had watched this whole procedure, and asked,
"What was the point of that? Why did you make him do that?" "Because I
told him to. If I tell him to do something, no matter how trivial or
unnecessary he may think it is, he still has to do it. If I had given up,
and let him decide he didn't have to listen to me, AND obey me, why would
he
listen to me another time, when it might be very important?" Usually he's
quick to obey, but sometimes he still has to test me.

Good conclusion, Phyrie, but I don't think you took it far enough.

If you find that he's "testing" you more often than in the past, it
may be because you're actually encouraging him to obey "slowly," by
not correcting him when he does. Part of obeying a command is obeying
it immediately. A recall would quickly lose its significance (e.g.,
the ability to save a dog's life) if the dog learns that he can "come"
whenever he wants to, and his owner doesn't do anything about it. If
you let some commands slide like this, you soon may find him starting
to shrug off other commands.

If you know for sure that he heard the command, expect him to obey it
immediately. Otherwise, you may find that you're waiting longer...and
longer...and longer, on more and more commands.

This is one reason why I believe in having fewer commands for your
dogs, but strictly enforcing the ones you do have.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

--
Dogman

I forced myself to ask and answer that question as honestly as possible. IS
he doing it more than he used to? No. He does it less. But he still does
it on occasion. I am MORE determined that he obey, and quickly, than I have
been in the past. He's coming very, very well to a whistle, and we practice
that every day. He has a great sit and down. Stay? Not so much. But I
don't find I need that one as much as "wait" and he's much better at that
than "stay". Those are about the only commands we have, really. He will
"shake a paw", "spin", "twirl" and a few other "tricks" but we don't
practice those daily. We did when he was much younger, and needed to learn
how to learn everything.

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

I didn't say there was never any bashing. And criticism is part and
parcel of any DISCUSSION group. But the people who get bashed (the
Carols, the Pauls, the Chars, etc.) usually have it coming, and have a
history of bashing others. But smart people, people like Manson,
accept the help, the good advice, and even the entertainment, and
otherwise mind their own business.

Disagree, Dogman. I've been in many discussions groups and even when
people disagree, they generally do not criticize each other. Criticism
is a very negative emotion that usually hurts the person at the other
end and rarely offers any benefit. It is possible to show displeasure
without criticism. Advice in the positive rather than the critique is
usually better received and more likely to actually "stick" to the
person.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 18:21:46 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

I didn't say there was never any bashing. And criticism is part and
parcel of any DISCUSSION group. But the people who get bashed (the
Carols, the Pauls, the Chars, etc.) usually have it coming, and have a
history of bashing others. But smart people, people like Manson,
accept the help, the good advice, and even the entertainment, and
otherwise mind their own business.

Disagree, Dogman. I've been in many discussions groups and even when
people disagree, they generally do not criticize each other.

Feel free to disagree all you want, but I've participated in many
newsgroups over the years myself, and they all have their share of
criticism, bashers, trolls, etc.

Criticism is a very negative emotion that usually hurts the person at the other
end and rarely offers any benefit.

Who do you think you are, Sharon? The freakin' Hall Monitor?

If you don't like it here, LEAVE! If you can't stand the heat, get out
of the freakin' kitchen!

But please stop all the whining!

Sheesh.

--
Dogman

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:57:35 -0700, "Phyrie"
wrote:

[...]
If you find that he's "testing" you more often than in the past, it
may be because you're actually encouraging him to obey "slowly," by
not correcting him when he does. Part of obeying a command is obeying
it immediately. A recall would quickly lose its significance (e.g.,
the ability to save a dog's life) if the dog learns that he can "come"
whenever he wants to, and his owner doesn't do anything about it. If
you let some commands slide like this, you soon may find him starting
to shrug off other commands.

If you know for sure that he heard the command, expect him to obey it
immediately. Otherwise, you may find that you're waiting longer...and
longer...and longer, on more and more commands.

This is one reason why I believe in having fewer commands for your
dogs, but strictly enforcing the ones you do have.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

I forced myself to ask and answer that question as honestly as possible. IS
he doing it more than he used to? No. He does it less. But he still does
it on occasion. I am MORE determined that he obey, and quickly, than I have
been in the past.

Good!

He's coming very, very well to a whistle, and we practice
that every day.

Good!

He has a great sit and down. Stay? Not so much. But I
don't find I need that one as much as "wait" and he's much better at that
than "stay". Those are about the only commands we have, really. He will
"shake a paw", "spin", "twirl" and a few other "tricks" but we don't
practice those daily. We did when he was much younger, and needed to learn
how to learn everything.

Okay, that sounds pretty good, actually. You sound like you have the
basics down pretty doggone good!

--
Dogman

"Dogman" wrote in message
...
Okay, that sounds pretty good, actually. You sound like you have the
basics down pretty doggone good!

--
Dogman

Thanks, Dogman. The basics are basically all we need anyway. Kiba is
simply a companion dog, and he needs to know enough to be polite, friendly,
confident, and welcome. He has no need of a perfect heel, for instance, nor
long distance signals. He'll never hunt, do obedience trials, or agility
courses. He adores fetch, and loves to hunt treats in the grass. That's
good enough for us. The only thing I regret is we can't ask him to jump. I
would love to throw a frisbee for him, but that won't ever be. I won't dare
another back injury (his, not mine). Next time he might not recover without
surgery or something even worse.

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

Feel free to disagree all you want, but I've participated in many
newsgroups over the years myself, and they all have their share of
criticism, bashers, trolls, etc.

We must run with different crowds then.


Who do you think you are, Sharon? The freakin' Hall Monitor?

Mebbe :-)


If you don't like it here, LEAVE! If you can't stand the heat, get out
of the freakin' kitchen!

But please stop all the whining!

Sheesh.

Lots of "freaking" in the posts, must be a flea got stuck to you.
Thought you'd like to know that I've given a lot of thought to some of
your suggestions and you could do a lot of good, Dogman, if you'd run
with the nice guys instead of scaring people away.

Far as I can tell there are just a few of you that run in a pack here,
and so far the evidence is that the pack chases all others away.
Doesn't that get lonely?

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com