In article ,
Dogman wrote:

If you keep allowing her to have "accidents," you may look up one day
and discover that she seems "happy to do her business outdoors" and
indoors.

"Doing pretty well" usually doesn't cut it where housebreaking is
concerned.

You really shouldn't allow her to have any "accidents," Sharon.

--
Dogman

I'm totally confident in our ability to potty train. Dakota came to us
as the world's worst in that regard with every kind of bad pee possible.
Dakota had the nervous pee, stress pee, mad pee, excited pee, and just
because pee. She also had a chewing problem and habit of escaping. She
was well versed in the art of slipping a collar and even chewing a leash
in half if you turned your head away for 30 seconds. We inherited quite
a handful with her.

Dakota came to us with a boatload of problems in general which is why
she had spent her first months in a revolving door scenario. The
previous owners didn't train her and let her become a wild child. We
totally turned her around and now she's awesome. She has full run of
the house for our workdays and there are no accidents, no chewing, no
problems of any kind.

If you would have asked me our first week with Dakota whether we
believed she could ever be trusted with full run of the house for hours,
we would have said no way! Today, Dakota has been on road trips, to
people's homes, and even hotel rooms and she has been a model citizen.
We literally transformed her.

If we could do that for Dakota who was older and full of very bad habits
already, I'm fully confident we can do the same for Sierra who is
younger and doesn't have all the stress pee issues.

Our biggest challenge personally this time will be successfully creating
a two-dog household. That's where we lack the experience. But we're
pretty quick studies and very determined. I'm sure we'll make a few
mistakes along the way but I'm looking toward a successful outcome.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 13:41:24 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

If you keep allowing her to have "accidents," you may look up one day
and discover that she seems "happy to do her business outdoors" and
indoors.

"Doing pretty well" usually doesn't cut it where housebreaking is
concerned.

You really shouldn't allow her to have any "accidents," Sharon.

--
Dogman

I'm totally confident in our ability to potty train.

Good!

--
Dogman

On Oct 4, 11:56*am, Sharon Delarose wrote:
In article ,

I'm drawing a little bit on my previous introduction of a new cat to an
older, established cat who wasn't happy with the intruder. *Her reaction
was to hiss and swat. *Eventually the two became great friends and
companions and lived many years together.

Introducing cats to cats is not similar to introducing dogs. Going
slowly, letting the cats smell each other first before they have
access to each other, etc. can be helpful with cats, but I don't think
it really is with dogs.

When we've taken Dakota on trips like Callaway Gardens, there were a lot
of strange dogs there. *All on leashes as she was. *She never once
snapped or growled at a passing dog.

Well, I should hope not.

But as we're cautious of strange
dogs not knowing how they will treat her, or if they are healthy, free
of worms, earmites, diseases etc. I'm not big on welcoming unknown dogs
near her so we usually don't stop and greet or if we do, it's a
split-second sniff and move on and not a lingering thing.

So you really don't have much of an idea how Dakota is with other
dogs.

So ending as I began, I know the ball is in my court and I'm hoping to
play it well so the end result is two happy dogs. *

I hope so too. You've got two females of breeds/breed mixes that both
want to be the boss, so you are going to have to make it clear that
you are the boss. Resource guarding of the humans by Dakota would
suggest that that isn't the case yet.

In article
,
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote:

So you really don't have much of an idea how Dakota is with other
dogs.

Correct. That's why I'm proceeding with caution. This is for Dakota,
her chance to become more socialized. So far it's going pretty well.
The only moves Dakota has made today are playful ones which I've
monitored very closely. The only moves from the pup are either
submissive, or playful. She appears eager to be part of everything.

I'm slowly expanding their freedom together as I watch the signs they
are sending. Also making very sure that Dakota gets her special time as
normal, her special games and so forth. Dakota is getting a big bonus
with all the short walks we are taking so that is a plus, it gives her a
positive benefit from having Sierra around.

Sort of like Victoria Stilwell episodes where she tells them to give the
dogs a treat around each other so that they associate each other with
something positive, that's what I'm trying to do.

Also, a bit like the Monks of New Skete when they get a new pup to
train, the pup is assigned a monk and the monk basically takes the pup
around with him on his dailies. I've done quite a bit of that with
Sierra today. I did that with Dakota initially, too, although for her
it was a bit different as we were not just teaching, we were problem
solving.

I was talking to a neighbor a few minutes ago taking the dogs for a
walk. We stopped to chat for quite awhile and she told me about a dog
she'd had, a Pomeranian, who went to visit a Border Collie.

The Border Collie had always been gentle with the Pom, never a problem,
never an aggression, and they had played together many times before.
One day the Border Collie got a little rambunctious with play and the
next thing they all knew, the Pomeranian was dead. She said it happened
instantly and it wasn't an aggression or fight, it was simply rough play
that was too rough for the Pomeranian. She was devastated. This Border
Collie was an active working cattle herder.

So I'm keeping all the different scenarios when making decisions. That
the dogs need to simply be dogs together. That I don't want a bad
scenario for Dakota not being well socialized. To make sure I maintain
alpha status but at the same time, send the message to Dakota that this
isn't a loss for her. So for all of us, we are learning together.



So ending as I began, I know the ball is in my court and I'm hoping to
play it well so the end result is two happy dogs. *

I hope so too. You've got two females of breeds/breed mixes that both
want to be the boss, so you are going to have to make it clear that
you are the boss. Resource guarding of the humans by Dakota would
suggest that that isn't the case yet.


Yes, two very bossy breeds indeed. When we adopted Dakota we had
trouble at feeding time. We did not feed the dogs separately as is
often suggested. They each had their two bowls in the same general
vicinity in the kitchen. Initially I stood guard at mealtime. When
Dakota attempted to shove Gypsy Rose away from her (Gypsy Rose's) food
bowl I intervened, propelling Dakota back to her own bowls. I taught
her that these over here are Gypsy Rose's bowls, those are yours, and
you both better respect that. She got the message and it didn't take
long before I could watch from afar with an occasional verbal message.
Pretty soon it wasn't even an issue. At the same time Gypsy Rose got
the message that she had the right to her own food. Initially she
simply backed away when Dakota got pushy.

Dakota had come with so many food issues, having been malnourished when
we adopted her, she was totally fixated on food. Now, she could care
less and will often leave food sit in her bowl. I'm sure she will
revisit that now. Sierra is acting much like Dakota in the early days.
If food is there she will devour it as quickly as possible. She hasn't
had access to Dakota's food, however.

I'm pretty good at being the boss. I didn't even hesitate with either
Dakota or Sierra to give them a bath within 24 hours of adopting.
Sierra is much more malleable than Dakota was initially. Didn't even
concern over biting or fighting me. Sierra did neither. Dakota did try
to fight it at first. It was simple for me. You are dirty, I don't
know with what, and you're getting a bath like it or not.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 17:12:10 -0400, Sharon Delarose wrote:


So I'm keeping all the different scenarios when making decisions. That
the dogs need to simply be dogs together. That I don't want a bad
scenario for Dakota not being well socialized. To make sure I maintain
alpha status but at the same time, send the message to Dakota that this
isn't a loss for her. So for all of us, we are learning together.



no matter how well you maintain your alpha status there will be the beta
and the gamma, be aware that when alpha is not there, the beta becomes
alpha and can kill beta(former gamma), and that most likely has happened
with Border and Pom. Make sure the pack structure is well established
before you leave them alone.

In article , sonofdog
wrote:

no matter how well you maintain your alpha status there will be the beta
and the gamma, be aware that when alpha is not there, the beta becomes
alpha and can kill beta(former gamma), and that most likely has happened
with Border and Pom. Make sure the pack structure is well established
before you leave them alone.

Will definitely take that step very slowly! When training Dakota I took
it very slowly, such as weaning her from the crate and into the house.
I'm talking serious baby steps.

As this is a million times more critical you can bet we will err on the
side of caution. Another story I know is an old neighbor. He had
either two or three small dogs, and then adopted another.

I honestly don't know how well they got along as I just knew him to say
hello. I know he went on vacation leaving them all in a backyard pen
with a neighbor looking after them. They had plenty of food and water.
That week the existing dogs ganged up on the new one and killed him.

So for all the stories I've heard about dogs being able to "work it out"
if you just let them, I've also heard the flip side. I'm one of those
worst case scenario types who tries to prepare for the worst.

On the plus side we had an awesome evening. We let them loose in the
living room together and it went very well. Lot of sniffing. Dakota
mostly laid back and watched Sierra, who went around picking up bones.
Our house is littered with Dakota's bones and Sierra picked one and
started chewing on it. Dakota did not aggress. At one point she went
over and non-chalantly sniffed all around, then picked up the bone and
walked about one foot away and dropped it. Sierra promptly went and got
it and Dakota simply watched.

Her attempts to go to Dakota's food and water, I stepped in and nixed.
Ditto her attempts to mess with Dakota's blankie. Sacred territory.
The bones, there are so many of them I let it go and watched to see
Dakota's reaction.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 21:31:18 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

I honestly don't know how well they got along as I just knew him to say
hello. I know he went on vacation leaving them all in a backyard pen
with a neighbor looking after them. They had plenty of food and water.
That week the existing dogs ganged up on the new one and killed him.

Leaving them all in a backyard pen unsupervised was just stupid.

So for all the stories I've heard about dogs being able to "work it out"
if you just let them, I've also heard the flip side. I'm one of those
worst case scenario types who tries to prepare for the worst.

On the plus side we had an awesome evening. We let them loose in the
living room together and it went very well. Lot of sniffing. Dakota
mostly laid back and watched Sierra, who went around picking up bones.
Our house is littered with Dakota's bones and Sierra picked one and
started chewing on it. Dakota did not aggress. At one point she went
over and non-chalantly sniffed all around, then picked up the bone and
walked about one foot away and dropped it. Sierra promptly went and got
it and Dakota simply watched.

Her attempts to go to Dakota's food and water, I stepped in and nixed.
Ditto her attempts to mess with Dakota's blankie. Sacred territory.
The bones, there are so many of them I let it go and watched to see
Dakota's reaction.

I doubt it will be possible to have toys that belong exclusively to
one dog or another. Do you have puppy toys for Sierra to play with
and chew on? If Dakota thinks everything is hers, she is more likely
to guard those things. I probably wouldn't be harping on this issue
if you hadn't said several times that Dakota was 'jealous' of the
puppy. Personally, I discourage my dogs from having sacred territory
and provide enough toys and beds for everyone.

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

I doubt it will be possible to have toys that belong exclusively to
one dog or another. Do you have puppy toys for Sierra to play with
and chew on? If Dakota thinks everything is hers, she is more likely
to guard those things. I probably wouldn't be harping on this issue
if you hadn't said several times that Dakota was 'jealous' of the
puppy. Personally, I discourage my dogs from having sacred territory
and provide enough toys and beds for everyone.

That's okay, I genuinely do welcome advice :-)

I've wondered about that whole exclusivity thing. We don't have
anything specific for Sierra yet except for food bowls and a leash
though I'm not sure I'd give her anything different than we've done
Dakota and we do have a "dog closet" full of whatnots, chewies, balls,
etc. some of which are virgin.

I don't go for giving them stuffed animals and toys that can be
chewed/destroyed that way. No old shoes, etc. or anything that could
teach them to chew on something illegal.

I do want to get her a rope toy. Gypsy Rose loved it. We didn't really
do that one for Dakota with her chew issues.

Dakota was difficult because she was such an expert chewer that even
Kong toys didn't hold up. One thing we've got in bulk is chewies.
Dakota rarely needs them now but they did us well back in the needy days.

Sierra is learning quickly. She started out apparently never having
encountered stairs and even with help wouldn't go up even one. Between
morning and bedtime yesterday, she mastered the stairs and will quickly
(for a pup anyway) go up and down a full flight of stairs, even slick
ones.

No potty in the night last night. She's been doing excellently pottying
outside.

I think she's watching Dakota and picking up a lot from her. Several
walks yesterday together all went without a single hitch. Two happy
dogs trotting right along. I was amazed frankly. Initially she
attempted to buck on the leash but now she's just following right along.

I think she's feeling a little bit of "the family" spirit which she
likely never had before.

We are battling a whining problem. If she's right with us she's fine
but if we separate her out in any way she get whiny. We separated her
at dinnertime yesterday because I was simply too exhausted to start that
angle of training, having been up all night the first night. My head
was full (of thoughts) and I couldn't sleep.

She whined when we went to bed last night but she stopped and settled
down after awhile. I think she's going to be a quick learner although I
do see a stubborn streak in her.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com