While we did have a multi-dog household for a little while when we first
adopted Dakota, that was a different scenario than the one we've got now.

Dakota is 3.5 years old, lives in the house with full run of the house.
We have a huge fenced backyard, Dakota's old crate which she no longer
needs, and a 5x10 chain link dog kennel which we only use if we go on
vacations and leave Dakota in the care of our neighbor.

Enter today, 4 month old puppy. Best of our knowledge the puppy (we
haven't chosen a name yet) has never been in a house, came from Animal
Control, they had to catch the puppy and her littermates who were out
homeless on their own. They've had her since Sept. 12 thereabouts at
the dog pound.

What's the best way to acclimate Dakota with the new puppy? We've spent
more time with Dakota since bringing the new one home, tried to make
every thing really positive for her.

She has shown both signs of "let's play" and signs of "I'm not liking
this".

All suggestions seriously welcome!

New pup very calm, quiet, no signs of aggression, already shown
submissive behavior around Dakota (belly up).

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:00:29 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

While we did have a multi-dog household for a little while when we first
adopted Dakota, that was a different scenario than the one we've got now.

Dakota is 3.5 years old, lives in the house with full run of the house.
We have a huge fenced backyard, Dakota's old crate which she no longer
needs, and a 5x10 chain link dog kennel which we only use if we go on
vacations and leave Dakota in the care of our neighbor.

Enter today, 4 month old puppy. Best of our knowledge the puppy (we
haven't chosen a name yet) has never been in a house, came from Animal
Control, they had to catch the puppy and her littermates who were out
homeless on their own. They've had her since Sept. 12 thereabouts at
the dog pound.

What's the best way to acclimate Dakota with the new puppy? We've spent
more time with Dakota since bringing the new one home, tried to make
every thing really positive for her.

She has shown both signs of "let's play" and signs of "I'm not liking
this".

All suggestions seriously welcome!

New pup very calm, quiet, no signs of aggression, already shown
submissive behavior around Dakota (belly up).

Those of my adult dogs that were here at the time were very tolerant
of four month-old Teddy when we brought him home not quite three years
ago. Oddly enough, his puppy license doesn't seem to have expired
completely; perhaps it's due to his being to much smaller than the
others.

IMO, it's mostly a matter of making sure the adult dog has time away
from the pup if desired, since puppies have so much more energy.
Adult dogs are quite good at disciplining puppies and letting them
know when they're biting too hard or just being obnoxious. You may
hear the puppy yelp when he gets told off, at which time(s) you should
check to make sure the puppy is just being dramatic and is not really
hurt. Adult dogs with good bite inhibition can play bitey-face
endlessly with puppies or small dogs without doing any damage.

Make sure your existing dog gets plenty of attention, so she knows
she's not being replaced. It helps if you start training the pup so
Dakota knows she has to follow the rules too. Separate at feeding
times, of course.

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

Adult dogs are quite good at disciplining puppies and letting them
know when they're biting too hard or just being obnoxious. You may
hear the puppy yelp when he gets told off, at which time(s) you should
check to make sure the puppy is just being dramatic and is not really
hurt. Adult dogs with good bite inhibition can play bitey-face
endlessly with puppies or small dogs without doing any damage.

I just want to make sure the pup doesn't get hurt. Dakota is pretty
rough and tumble. I don't want to turn this into Dakota suddenly
getting in trouble as that would be a negative for her. But I want to
make sure she "plays nice" too. She's not had a lot of opportunity to
play with other dogs as everyone we knew had such tiny dogs, such as a
teacup poodle. Our other dog was too old to play with her.

I also want to make sure she doesn't do something mean out of jealousy.
The pup didn't even make a peep when they microchipped her. They did
that as part of the adoption. All the other dogs they did yelped quite
loudly. So far she's been very very quiet. and mellow.

I'm sure that won't last. Probably just a big day for her and our home
is relaxing.

We've kept her mostly in Dakota's old crate and let them sniff thru the
bars. We had them out together for awhile in the living room, both on
leashes, with me sitting in between. Dakota is looking very jealous for
the most part.

Outdoors we put the pup in the kennel while Dakota had full run of the
yard. That way they could acclimate thru the fencing. Tonight is our
first night together.

Dakota's first night with us was loose in the bedroom with us and our
other dog. This time we're not comfortable with that so the pup is in
the crate. We just want to make sure there won't be any incidents
before too much freedom together happens. I'm the one being cautious,
my husband has a bit more faith in them working it out.

I'm more afraid of Dakota biting than the pup biting. Just not sure
what to expect from her in a jealous state.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

Sharon Delarose wrote:

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

Adult dogs are quite good at disciplining puppies and letting them
know when they're biting too hard or just being obnoxious. You may
hear the puppy yelp when he gets told off, at which time(s) you should
check to make sure the puppy is just being dramatic and is not really
hurt. Adult dogs with good bite inhibition can play bitey-face
endlessly with puppies or small dogs without doing any damage.

I just want to make sure the pup doesn't get hurt. Dakota is pretty
rough and tumble. I don't want to turn this into Dakota suddenly
getting in trouble as that would be a negative for her. But I want to
make sure she "plays nice" too. She's not had a lot of opportunity to
play with other dogs as everyone we knew had such tiny dogs, such as a
teacup poodle. Our other dog was too old to play with her.

Puppies have puppy fat and flexible bones. They can take and appreciate
a lot of rough and tumble. It is rare for a dog to have problems with a
puppy that young, but what dogs consider playing nice can be surprising
to humans. A lot of play is play fighting, and some minor growls, barks,
and yelps during the play are to be expected. Signs that the older dog
thinks the play is getting out of hand include angry growls, some forms
of barking, air snaps, and pinning the puppy. I would call a break at
the angry growls, and pay attention to the rest. As long as the puppy is
quickly ready to rejoin the action the older dogs corrections have been
acceptable.

FWIW our older dog had a rather gentle pin, laying her neck on Smokey
untill he calmed down.


I also want to make sure she doesn't do something mean out of jealousy.
The pup didn't even make a peep when they microchipped her. They did
that as part of the adoption. All the other dogs they did yelped quite
loudly. So far she's been very very quiet. and mellow.

I'm sure that won't last. Probably just a big day for her and our home
is relaxing.

So you got another female. That is slightly more likely to cause
problems than getting an opposite sex, but as long as least one is
neutered problems are unlikely. Keep an eye on the puppy as she
approaches adolescence at six to eight months, and adulthood at fourteen
to sixteen months. Those are the periods when the younger dog is most
likely to try to change pack order.

We've kept her mostly in Dakota's old crate and let them sniff thru the
bars. We had them out together for awhile in the living room, both on
leashes, with me sitting in between.

An initial introduction on more neutral territory would have been
better, but is usually not neccessary for puppies.

Dakota is looking very jealous for
the most part.

That is slightly surprising. Jelousy per se is more a human emotion than
a dog emotion, though resource guarding of the human can have
similarities to jelousy. Usually if you keep the initial encounters away
from food and high priority toys (e.g., rawhide chews) resource guarding
is not a problem.


Outdoors we put the pup in the kennel while Dakota had full run of the
yard. That way they could acclimate thru the fencing. Tonight is our
first night together.

Dakota's first night with us was loose in the bedroom with us and our
other dog. This time we're not comfortable with that so the pup is in
the crate. We just want to make sure there won't be any incidents
before too much freedom together happens. I'm the one being cautious,
my husband has a bit more faith in them working it out.

Your husband is probably right, but caution probably won't hurt.

I'm more afraid of Dakota biting than the pup biting. Just not sure
what to expect from her in a jealous state.

What is the behavior that you are interpretting as jelousy?

--
Bill Clodius
los the lost and net the pet to email

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 22:03:45 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

We've kept her mostly in Dakota's old crate and let them sniff thru the
bars. We had them out together for awhile in the living room, both on
leashes, with me sitting in between. Dakota is looking very jealous for
the most part.

Outdoors we put the pup in the kennel while Dakota had full run of the
yard. That way they could acclimate thru the fencing. Tonight is our
first night together.

Dakota's first night with us was loose in the bedroom with us and our
other dog. This time we're not comfortable with that so the pup is in
the crate. We just want to make sure there won't be any incidents
before too much freedom together happens. I'm the one being cautious,
my husband has a bit more faith in them working it out.

I'm more afraid of Dakota biting than the pup biting. Just not sure
what to expect from her in a jealous state.

Well, I don't know your dog or what kind of relationship you have with
your dog. All I can tell you is that it isn't common for an adult dog
to really attack a puppy, which is one reason people choose to add a
puppy rather than an adult to their households. Adult dogs are
usually pretty tolerant of puppies. If Dakota has all these jealousy
issues the first day the pup is there, a slow introduction isn't
likely to make a difference. If she's not good with other dogs to the
extent that she'll go after a puppy, then it probably wasn't a great
idea to get a puppy, particularly a puppy of the same gender.

In terms of introduction, I don't think that keeping one dog crated
most of the time and/or having them both on leashes in the house is
helpful. Some dogs are more fearful/reactive on leash, and an owner's
anxiety can be telegraphed down the leash to the dog. If you're right
there in the room with the dogs, having them on leashes isn't going to
prevent anything from happening and the leashes could get in the way
of your separating the dogs if necessary. It almost sounds as if you
expect Dakota to try to hurt the pup. She will sense your anxiety in
this situation and that isn't going to help her relax. Assume
everything will be fine and let them get to know each other. As the
leader, you decide how many dogs you'll have, not her, and you expect
them to work it out and get along. Again, this is assuming she
doesn't have aggression issues.

On Sun, 3 Oct 2010 22:43:19 -0600, (William
Clodius) wrote:

Puppies have puppy fat and flexible bones. They can take and appreciate
a lot of rough and tumble. It is rare for a dog to have problems with a
puppy that young, but what dogs consider playing nice can be surprising
to humans. A lot of play is play fighting, and some minor growls, barks,
and yelps during the play are to be expected. Signs that the older dog
thinks the play is getting out of hand include angry growls, some forms
of barking, air snaps, and pinning the puppy. I would call a break at
the angry growls, and pay attention to the rest. As long as the puppy is
quickly ready to rejoin the action the older dogs corrections have been
acceptable.

I agree. Teddy tended to be rather dramatic if someone got a little
rough with him, and if I heard him yip I'd go check out what was
happening, prepared to yell at someone for eating the puppy, only so
see him jumping right back into the action.

FWIW our older dog had a rather gentle pin, laying her neck on Smokey
untill he calmed down.

Yep - that's the disciplining I referred to.

So you got another female. That is slightly more likely to cause
problems than getting an opposite sex, but as long as least one is
neutered problems are unlikely. Keep an eye on the puppy as she
approaches adolescence at six to eight months, and adulthood at fourteen
to sixteen months. Those are the periods when the younger dog is most
likely to try to change pack order.

Agree except that neutering (spaying) doesn't make a difference in
alleviating female same-sex dog-on-dog aggression. In some
(fortunately uncommon) situations it can actually make the aggression
worse.

An initial introduction on more neutral territory would have been
better, but is usually not neccessary for puppies.

I don't even do it with my adult dogs anymore. We've fostered so much
over the years, and also have friends come over with a dog or two at
times, so my dogs know they're expected to accept any dog I bring in,
temporarily or permanently. That said, of course I wouldn't keep a
dog that didn't fit in here, but that shouldn't be an issue with a
puppy.

That is slightly surprising. Jelousy per se is more a human emotion than
a dog emotion, though resource guarding of the human can have
similarities to jelousy. Usually if you keep the initial encounters away
from food and high priority toys (e.g., rawhide chews) resource guarding
is not a problem.

snip

I'm more afraid of Dakota biting than the pup biting. Just not sure
what to expect from her in a jealous state.

What is the behavior that you are interpretting as jelousy?

I wondered about this too. I think dogs do get jealous, though as
Bill said, with dogs it's usually really resource guarding and
sometimes the resource is a human. But I would be surprised to see
Dakota react with 'jealousy' from the outset. Perhaps what you're
seeing is uncertainty?

Actually it's going a bit better than I'd worried about between the
dogs. As for resource guarding, Dakota is very attached to us and
spends most of her time near us or gazing at us from afar. I've made
sure the pup didn't get Dakota's favorite toys and chewies to avoid
resource issues but as we are the major resource, that's where any
issues would likely come in. Dakota's given us quite a cold shoulder
last night and her overall expression was not a happy one. Tried to
spend extra special time with her, games, treats, etc.

Today I took them out several times together side by side for a walk and
that went extremely well. I think the pup wants to follow along with
Dakota which helps. Good for Dakota because she gets more walks than
normal and good for the pup just because.

My caution is because this is a very new situation for Dakota. She's
made several play attempts and a couple of lunges that I couldn't be
sure if they were play or other. No growling. I think in all the time
we've had her she's only growled one time and I made it clear that was a
no-no and it never happened again. I was taking a chewy away that she'd
ingested enough of. Normally she puts up with that, doesn't like it but
she knows it's going to happen, much like a bath. Not her favorite
thing but she's pretty good about it.

I think we're going to name the noob Sierra. Leaning that way. She got
her first bath yesterday in the bathtub. Not her favorite thing but she
wasn't half bad for it. No attempts to bite or nip, no barking, but she
did attempt to climb out a couple times. Watched the fleas slide down
the drain. Why do new additions always bring fleas and usually other
things?

They've both spent a lot of time sniffing, especially during the walks.

So far the only accident was last night when we were sleeping. I
actually expected more accidents but she's done pretty well and seems
happy to do her business outdoors. As anticipated, today she is well
rested and full of energy.

She's been EXTREMELY whiny today - she wants total freedom and she isn't
getting it yet. Thankfully our house is big enough that Dakota can get
far away. I set Sierra up a little enclosure in my computer area so she
can be up here and I can be free to work. Once I've had her thoroughly
vetted I'll be a little more open to letting her around more. They
can't get us in until Thursday. Dakota's normal place is often at my
feet so I didn't want to put Sierra there and usurp one of Dakota's
happy places.

She's believed to be a Catahoula Leopard Dog. Her paperwork said
"Aussie" but I had a long talk with the shelter folks we adopted her
from and they believed her to be Catahoula Leopard. She is the spitting
image of one in coloring, body style, eyes, pattern, legs, etc.

What really surprised me was the politics involved in Pet Adoption Day.
Wow. The group we adopted Dakota from brings pets for adoption to the
pet store every weekend, out front on the sidewalk. Other groups
occasionally come. The Animal Control got a new person running it and
he's very aggressively wanting to rehome them, especially because it's a
yes-kill shelter and he hates that. Sierra was slated for this coming
Wednesday.

But apparently there's animosity between the different rescue groups not
wanting Animal Control to bring their animals for adoption. Partly
because the other rescue groups will have competition and partly because
they are against the yes-kill part. All I know is I've never seen so
many dogs adopted out in one day there and so many people there in
general. The Animal Control was delighted that they were able to rehome
so many. They came driving in with a flatbed trailer loaded with cages
full of dogs including several litters that they divided two to a cage.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

In terms of introduction, I don't think that keeping one dog crated
most of the time and/or having them both on leashes in the house is
helpful. Some dogs are more fearful/reactive on leash, and an owner's
anxiety can be telegraphed down the leash to the dog. If you're right
there in the room with the dogs, having them on leashes isn't going to
prevent anything from happening and the leashes could get in the way
of your separating the dogs if necessary. It almost sounds as if you
expect Dakota to try to hurt the pup. She will sense your anxiety in
this situation and that isn't going to help her relax. Assume
everything will be fine and let them get to know each other. As the
leader, you decide how many dogs you'll have, not her, and you expect
them to work it out and get along. Again, this is assuming she
doesn't have aggression issues.

You are right. A lot of it is my anxiety over the unknown. I've not
walked this particular path before. When we adopted Dakota, our other
dog Gypsy Rose I knew to be as gentle and peaceful as a dog could
possibly be. I knew I could totally trust her.

Dakota came to us wanting to take over Gypsy Rose's territory. She
never genuinely hurt Gypsy Rose as in biting, but she did hurt her just
in being rough in her play, shouldering, pushing etc. Gypsy Rose was
all aches and pains before we even brought Dakota in, she was arthritic
and not in the best of health and sometimes just a gentle touch in the
wrong place made her yelp. She was 13, not the world's best age to
acclimate to a young dog, so Dakota did not get the chance for
rambunctious dog play with her. Had Gypsy Rose been a bit more willing
to stand up for herself and let Dakota know it wasn't cool, it might
have worked but Gypsy Rose was simply too mellow. She would not
discipline Dakota so we had to stand over it for her.

Dakota is very energetic, and she hasn't had the opportunity to
genuinely play with other dogs because the dogs that come to visit us
have all been too small for the risk. The teacup poodle I mentioned is
a little dictator, aggressive, territorial, protective of resources, and
he attempts to start something. As she could chop him in half if she
had half a mind to we've not allowed the two freedom since he tends to
start snapping and we don't want her to follow suit and cause injury.
We'll give each dog a treat and he takes his and instead of eating it,
he hides it and defends it even if she isn't anywhere near it. Sad to
say most of the dogs Dakota has had come to visit us were that way.
Tiny little dictators.

It was okay with Gypsy Rose because she was so unbelievably mellow.
They'd come around her and she'd just be all non-chalant and they
wouldn't feel threatened and it would be okay. Dakota wants to bat at
them like a cat batting a cat toy and she connected one time and the
little dog yelped, he wasn't remotely hurt but his owner freaked out so
badly we never allowed it again. His owner is the type that one tiny
peep and she goes running "oh what's the matter my poor baby!"

We all knew that Dakota was simply attempting to play but the size
differential just didn't make it feasible. He was just too tiny, he
could fit in your hand, and we didn't want to take a risk with a
visiting dog. Sierra will grow into a size that equals Dakota and she's
of a breed that's also rough and tumble so hopefully it will be a good
match if we handle it right.

I'm drawing a little bit on my previous introduction of a new cat to an
older, established cat who wasn't happy with the intruder. Her reaction
was to hiss and swat. Eventually the two became great friends and
companions and lived many years together.

When we've taken Dakota on trips like Callaway Gardens, there were a lot
of strange dogs there. All on leashes as she was. She never once
snapped or growled at a passing dog. But as we're cautious of strange
dogs not knowing how they will treat her, or if they are healthy, free
of worms, earmites, diseases etc. I'm not big on welcoming unknown dogs
near her so we usually don't stop and greet or if we do, it's a
split-second sniff and move on and not a lingering thing.

So ending as I began, I know the ball is in my court and I'm hoping to
play it well so the end result is two happy dogs. Hearing you guys
sharing how you introduce dogs and how it goes is VERY helpful. Thank
you!

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com

On Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:57:28 -0400, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

[...]
So far the only accident was last night when we were sleeping. I
actually expected more accidents but she's done pretty well and seems
happy to do her business outdoors.

If you keep allowing her to have "accidents," you may look up one day
and discover that she seems "happy to do her business outdoors" and
indoors.

"Doing pretty well" usually doesn't cut it where housebreaking is
concerned.

You really shouldn't allow her to have any "accidents," Sharon.

--
Dogman

sighthounds & siberians said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I think dogs do get jealous, though as
Bill said, with dogs it's usually really resource guarding and
sometimes the resource is a human.

I don't describe it to new clients as jealousy, I describe it as
resource guarding and have done so for years. I'm grateful (and
somewhat amazed) that everyone picks up on the notion right
away.

--
--Matt.