On 12/6/2010 7:21 AM, Sharon Delarose wrote:
In articlehrydnWMo6I0oF2fRnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:

The dogs I know that do get vaccinated tend to live to 15 or so years.
I like those odds, and I've known quite a few in my day. As the only
dogs I've met that don't get vaccinated come from homes that let them
run loose, they get hit by cars or picked up by the pound and never make
it to ripe old age, so I do not have a personal frame of reference to
gauge by.

So they aren't killed from a lack of vaccines but by a lack of caring.

Yes, that is correct.



There is a growing number of people who care enough to feed a species
appropriate diet, don't vaccinate and don't use pesticides around or on
their pets. We feel that this is a superior way to treat pets. These
people are dead opposite of the ones you talk about. We feel that this
way of raising pets is vastly superior to what most people consider
"normal".

Many of us treat ourselves the same way, eating organic or raw, avoiding
vaccines and pesticides.

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

In article ,
Char wrote:

There is a growing number of people who care enough to feed a species
appropriate diet, don't vaccinate and don't use pesticides around or on
their pets. We feel that this is a superior way to treat pets. These
people are dead opposite of the ones you talk about. We feel that this
way of raising pets is vastly superior to what most people consider
"normal".

Many of us treat ourselves the same way, eating organic or raw, avoiding
vaccines and pesticides.

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html


I'm with you on the pesticides. While I do use flea treatment, I don't
use it every month if they seem to be okay. Gypsy Rose could often go
months without a flea treatment. I am aware that anything that comes in
contact with our skin is absorbed. That goes for household chemicals
for cleaning, painters being exposed to paint and solvents, etc. I've
met a lot of sick people who were battling those types of toxicities at
a holistic doctor I went to (who was also a licensed M.D., very famous
in his field, people came from all over the country to go to him, he
recently retired at 83 years old.)

Even so it takes a very serious dedication to follow a strict path. I
personally did it for a year, eating a very restricted diet, and
seriously I wouldn't want to even try that again. The memories of it
are not good ones, although I was healthier than I've ever been and was
full of energy and felt great, food became almost a torture.

Eliminating 90+ percent of everything you normally eat, and being left
only with foods that either you don't like, or eating the same two or
three foods over and over because they are the only ones that are legal,
that's HARD. I'm not that dedicated.

I went grain free for a year personally. Grain free, dairy free, sugar
free, even fruit was taboo for the sugar in it. No eggs. No yogurt
even. Other items were disallowed as well. So I do know the concept.
When you fall off the wagon you hit pretty hard after a year like that.
You have to really like the allowable foods or it simply won't work.

As for dogs, I have no doubt they love the raw diet as it would match
the normal diet in the wild. I know of people who toss their dogs dead
meat as a treat but I struggle with doing it. I don't trust it. We've
been so ingrained in our society about things like salmonella and so
forth with raw meats, and I've read where dogs can get it too, I'd be
very afraid.

Oddly enough, and I cannot explain the illogic, I never had issue with
my cats catching and eating small creatures. I never worried about it.
But if my dog caught a squirrel and wanted to eat it I'd probably panic.
No logic but there it is.

--
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http://books.gityasome.com
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http://www.gityasome.com

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:21:07 -0500, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

As for dogs, I have no doubt they love the raw diet as it would match
the normal diet in the wild. I know of people who toss their dogs dead
meat as a treat but I struggle with doing it. I don't trust it. We've
been so ingrained in our society about things like salmonella and so
forth with raw meats, and I've read where dogs can get it too, I'd be
very afraid.

Dogs don't get salmonella. E coli from 4D meat, yes.

Oddly enough, and I cannot explain the illogic, I never had issue with
my cats catching and eating small creatures. I never worried about it.
But if my dog caught a squirrel and wanted to eat it I'd probably panic.
No logic but there it is.

One of my Siberians caught and ate squirrels (the entire squirrel)
regularly, with no ill effects.

sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:21:07 -0500, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

As for dogs, I have no doubt they love the raw diet as it would match
the normal diet in the wild. I know of people who toss their dogs dead
meat as a treat but I struggle with doing it. I don't trust it. We've
been so ingrained in our society about things like salmonella and so
forth with raw meats, and I've read where dogs can get it too, I'd be
very afraid.

Dogs don't get salmonella.

Actually they can. Normally it's not really a problem because it goes
through the digestive system a lot faster than in a human. If they
have a compromised immune system though it can be a serious issue.
They can be carriers too.

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoono...almonella.html

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:37:46 -0600, Jim Manson wrote:

sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:21:07 -0500, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

As for dogs, I have no doubt they love the raw diet as it would match
the normal diet in the wild. I know of people who toss their dogs dead
meat as a treat but I struggle with doing it. I don't trust it. We've
been so ingrained in our society about things like salmonella and so
forth with raw meats, and I've read where dogs can get it too, I'd be
very afraid.

Dogs don't get salmonella.

Actually they can. Normally it's not really a problem because it goes
through the digestive system a lot faster than in a human. If they
have a compromised immune system though it can be a serious issue.
They can be carriers too.

Right. I didn't say they can't get it; I said they don't, which
normally they don't. Recently Delta, one of the major pet therapy
organizations in the US, decreed that their therapy dogs can't be raw
fed - or live in a home where any dogs are raw fed - because of the
danger of shedding salmonella etc. I think they're overestimating
that danger, but I'd decided a while ago that if I went back to doing
pet therapy it would be with TDI, so it doesn't matter to me
personally.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:35:07 -0500, sighthounds & siberians
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:37:46 -0600, Jim Manson wrote:

sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:21:07 -0500, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

As for dogs, I have no doubt they love the raw diet as it would match
the normal diet in the wild. I know of people who toss their dogs dead
meat as a treat but I struggle with doing it. I don't trust it. We've
been so ingrained in our society about things like salmonella and so
forth with raw meats, and I've read where dogs can get it too, I'd be
very afraid.

Dogs don't get salmonella.

Actually they can. Normally it's not really a problem because it goes
through the digestive system a lot faster than in a human. If they
have a compromised immune system though it can be a serious issue.
They can be carriers too.

Right. I didn't say they can't get it; I said they don't, which
normally they don't. Recently Delta, one of the major pet therapy
organizations in the US, decreed that their therapy dogs can't be raw
fed - or live in a home where any dogs are raw fed - because of the
danger of shedding salmonella etc. I think they're overestimating
that danger, but I'd decided a while ago that if I went back to doing
pet therapy it would be with TDI, so it doesn't matter to me
personally.

Also, dogs' stomach acid is some pretty powerful stuff and is thought
to be partially responsible for the fact that they rarely get
salmonella.

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 22:35:07 -0500, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 16:37:46 -0600, Jim Manson wrote:

sighthounds & siberians wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:21:07 -0500, Sharon Delarose
wrote:

As for dogs, I have no doubt they love the raw diet as it would match
the normal diet in the wild. I know of people who toss their dogs
dead meat as a treat but I struggle with doing it. I don't trust it.
We've been so ingrained in our society about things like salmonella
and so forth with raw meats, and I've read where dogs can get it too,
I'd be very afraid.

Dogs don't get salmonella.

Actually they can. Normally it's not really a problem because it goes
through the digestive system a lot faster than in a human. If they have
a compromised immune system though it can be a serious issue. They can
be carriers too.

Right. I didn't say they can't get it; I said they don't, which
normally they don't. Recently Delta, one of the major pet therapy
organizations in the US, decreed that their therapy dogs can't be raw
fed - or live in a home where any dogs are raw fed - because of the
danger of shedding salmonella etc. I think they're overestimating that
danger, but I'd decided a while ago that if I went back to doing pet
therapy it would be with TDI, so it doesn't matter to me personally.

This a story only.
I've had a tenant living in my rental house, a lady who loved dogs, yet
her hygienic habits were much, very much below average person. She had 4
or 5 dogs with full access to inside of the house.After 5 years of her
tenancy she moved out as she could not stand the place herself. It was
much worse then any puppy mill you might seen. In that house she lived
with her two daughters and a couple of grandchildren aged between 1 and 4
years old. After she moved out I had to remove 6" of soil from the yard to
make it clean. I'm not aware that during that time anyone there was
infected with salmonella or anything else. Good immune systems or
nonexistent salmonella ?

In article ,
sonofdog wrote:

This a story only.
I've had a tenant living in my rental house, a lady who loved dogs, yet
her hygienic habits were much, very much below average person. She had 4
or 5 dogs with full access to inside of the house.After 5 years of her
tenancy she moved out as she could not stand the place herself. It was
much worse then any puppy mill you might seen. In that house she lived
with her two daughters and a couple of grandchildren aged between 1 and 4
years old. After she moved out I had to remove 6" of soil from the yard to
make it clean. I'm not aware that during that time anyone there was
infected with salmonella or anything else. Good immune systems or
nonexistent salmonella ?

Hey, a story! I'll play ;-)

There was a story in one of James Herriot's books (a country vet in old
England that wrote of his life as a veterinarian) that told of the man
who collected the bodies of dead animals. He took them to his "yard"
and turned them into a variety of things, some of which were edible for
animals if I remember correctly.

You could smell the stink of his "yard" from a long distance and there
were always mounds of animal parts and things he was turning them into.
His children played in the yard and I think the story included one of
the kids sticking their finger into a mound of something and eating it.

James said they were the healthiest family in the district. Presumably
for coming into contact with so many diseases and illnesses and gaining
immunity to them.

--
Bad Dog Books
http://books.gityasome.com
Gityasome Tshirts
http://www.gityasome.com