"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

On non-verbal training

My neophyte level of understanding of this is dogs pickup faster on this.
It's *definate* that it is working very well with a deaf dog but then,
'DUH'
on that one!

Yes, dogs are very attuned to body language, both in other dogs and
people, so they learn hand signals quickly.

We are working on being 'consistant' now. We are fairly so with some things
(our version of 'heel' is a slap to our thigh and a kissy noise). We are
working on 'down' as that seems next easy. The trainer's email said it's
pretty common to use a flattened hand level to the floor. Sammy lays down
consistantly with it but may be reacting to the word 'down' as well. Cash
sometimes sits but normally lays down. Mabel comes over and looks quizzical
but eventually sits and gets petted.

Our impression is she 'knows standard training words' from before she went
mostly deaf and is now relating them to hand signals slowly. The fosters
didn't work with her any (she was in a group with 4-5 others and not there
very long).

Mabel can't hear 'heel'. She's learning the body signals we use to mean
that (only day 5 here so please be kind). She'll need more attention on
that aspect as if she gets out of 'eyesight of us' we can't just say
'heel'
to fix it. For now, her training is to not pull but to wander about and
trip you up. She seems to 'assume we see her and will accomodate'.

Re-phrase above, she doesn't pull on leash, just wanders all over within
range of the leash, sometimes underfoot which has to be fixed due to Don's
low-vision.

Is she on leash when she's out of eyesight? Or loose in your fenced
yard?

On leash when outside except in the fully fenced backyard. She's developing
nicely in backyard habits, normally orienting so she can see the house
entrances where we might be. In good weather we let all 3 (or 2 if Sammy
feels like sleeping inside instead) have play time out there for a bit.
Some of that with us and the various 'mazes' we make of firewood logs just
to add fun, and some just snoozing in the warm sun.

Call it 30 mins or so to commune with the sun and watch the squirrels and
just do general 'doggie dreaming'.

I'm not sure how to work that but the trainer we use now for Cash got an
email and had some interesting ideas but says he needs to see her first
before we try anything much. He's used to working with dogs for deaf
people
but not the reverse.

He'll be here Saturday BTW. He did the same thing i did which was search up
some web info but being more experienced, he probably got a better idea of
what will work for us. He reminded me to get her a harness as _we_ are
mostly used to that so will have better control even though she's not a
puller. We did and she went for a walk with the other 2 today in it, short
leashed. She did better but mostly I swung my arm out so she couldn't get
underfoot.

How about a hand signal pointing her to where you want her? You could
try getting her attention when she wanders and trips you by jiggling
her leash so she feels it moving and looks back at you. Maybe keep
her on a shorter leash while she's getting the hang of that.

Thats pretty much where we are for now, jiggling the leash and keeping it
pretty short on the harness. I don't think she's ever had any 'heel
training' but she seems a bright little lady, eager to please.

We've had no more peeing incidents since Monday so I think it will all be
ok. She's totally well behaved indoors although we still baby gate her at
night to the back 2 rooms. This will have to continue for a bit until she
gets more cat accepting as Daisy likes to sleep with/on/between the other 2
dogs.

Day 6 here at what we jokingly call Shenk's geriatric pet home facility ;-)

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 11:42:19 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:


We are working on being 'consistant' now. We are fairly so with some things
(our version of 'heel' is a slap to our thigh and a kissy noise).

Only problem with that is that she won't hear it. Might see your hand
slap the thigh though.

We are
working on 'down' as that seems next easy. The trainer's email said it's
pretty common to use a flattened hand level to the floor.

Yes, that's what I use. I generally use hand signals in combination
with certain verbal commands because it seems to help the dogs
understand what you're asking for. My Borzoi youngster will now come
and sit front if I point to the floor in front of me. She's scary
smart.

Re-phrase above, she doesn't pull on leash, just wanders all over within
range of the leash, sometimes underfoot which has to be fixed due to Don's
low-vision.

Ah, I get it. That would be a problem for me too, with balance
issues. It can be tricky to walk multiple dogs at the same time even
without any physical problems on the humans' part. They make all
kinds of leash couplers for that, but those wouldn't help if she likes
to wander around. I have a thingy that's like a fishing pole, with
two leashes coming from the end, which works pretty well for tall
dogs. Also have a waist belt that has leashes attached to it, which
works best for me. But it's still important for the dogs to pretty
much keep a straight line and not wander too much. I don't mean that
they aren't allowed to go sniff what they want, but within reason.

He'll be here Saturday BTW. He did the same thing i did which was search up
some web info but being more experienced, he probably got a better idea of
what will work for us. He reminded me to get her a harness as _we_ are
mostly used to that so will have better control even though she's not a
puller. We did and she went for a walk with the other 2 today in it, short
leashed. She did better but mostly I swung my arm out so she couldn't get
underfoot.

I'm sure he'll have some suggestions.

How about a hand signal pointing her to where you want her? You could
try getting her attention when she wanders and trips you by jiggling
her leash so she feels it moving and looks back at you. Maybe keep
her on a shorter leash while she's getting the hang of that.

Thats pretty much where we are for now, jiggling the leash and keeping it
pretty short on the harness. I don't think she's ever had any 'heel
training' but she seems a bright little lady, eager to please.

We've had no more peeing incidents since Monday so I think it will all be
ok. She's totally well behaved indoors although we still baby gate her at
night to the back 2 rooms. This will have to continue for a bit until she
gets more cat accepting as Daisy likes to sleep with/on/between the other 2
dogs.

Day 6 here at what we jokingly call Shenk's geriatric pet home facility ;-)

We have a stone sign that says "Greyhound Retirement Home" which, at
various times over the years, has been literally very true!

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote
"cshenk" wrote:

We are working on being 'consistant' now. We are fairly so with some
things
(our version of 'heel' is a slap to our thigh and a kissy noise).

Only problem with that is that she won't hear it. Might see your hand
slap the thigh though.

Exactly. It's expected to take a little time for us to adapt to this. If
she's not looking, she won't know you are signalling. Comes up as you can
expect in all sorts of spots. Like, ya can't yell 'dinner' and get but 2
dogs and a cat...

We are
working on 'down' as that seems next easy. The trainer's email said it's
pretty common to use a flattened hand level to the floor.

Yes, that's what I use. I generally use hand signals in combination
with certain verbal commands because it seems to help the dogs
understand what you're asking for. My Borzoi youngster will now come
and sit front if I point to the floor in front of me. She's scary
smart.

I'll try that later. I don't want to confuse her by shifting too fast.

Re-phrase above, she doesn't pull on leash, just wanders all over within
range of the leash, sometimes underfoot which has to be fixed due to Don's
low-vision.

Ah, I get it. That would be a problem for me too, with balance
issues. It can be tricky to walk multiple dogs at the same time even
without any physical problems on the humans' part. They make all
kinds of leash couplers for that, but those wouldn't help if she likes
to wander around.

I wonder if a 'harness to harness' 16inch tie with Sammy next to me, and
Mabel 'outboard' of Sammy might work? Probably too soon as I don't want to
create a 'Sammy, correct Mabel' ethic just now. 6 days only and that may
create issues we do not have at this time if done too soon?

Meantime it's pretty simple. Charlotte jogs Cash, Sammy walks with Don and
I take Mabel. If we swap, I bike with Cash, Charlotte walks Mabel and again
Don walks with Sammy.

It took Sammy a couple of weeks to figure out why Cash 'directs Don around
things' but he's got it now.

Day 6 here at what we jokingly call Shenk's geriatric pet home facility
;-)

We have a stone sign that says "Greyhound Retirement Home" which, at
various times over the years, has been literally very true!

LOL!

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:32:28 -0500, cshenk wrote:

Only problem with that is that she won't hear it. Might see your hand
slap the thigh though.

Exactly. It's expected to take a little time for us to adapt to this.
If she's not looking, she won't know you are signalling.

dogs that are hard of hearing very often are sensitive to air vibrations
caused by sounds, try this: being close to her clap your hands twice and
if she looks up at you immediately give a treat. Be patient,repeat a few
times, you maybe able to train this way. When you noticed that she is
checking visually with you frequently (attention) you may start training
different hand/body signals. Just remember to train one command at a time
in short 3-5 min sessions.

"sonofdog" wrote
cshenk wrote:

dogs that are hard of hearing very often are sensitive to air vibrations
caused by sounds, try this: being close to her clap your hands twice and
if she looks up at you immediately give a treat. Be patient,repeat a few
times, you maybe able to train this way. When you noticed that she is
checking visually with you frequently (attention) you may start training
different hand/body signals. Just remember to train one command at a time
in short 3-5 min sessions.

That's sensible. At the fosters, she was easily called by stomping on the
floor nearish her. Vibration. They however had a wood floor and while I
have a minimal wood overlay frame, it's a slab floor. No discernable
vibration.

I was out at a local sports/hunting/fishing place here and your post struck
me at that time (didn't reply yesterday but saw it). When I was in there
getting Don some Xmas gifts (he loves fishing) the idea of the hunting call
items came in to my mind. I asked them if I could bring her in (on a leash
with a promise to clean up if she has any accidents, not that I expect any)
and they said yes. While I suspect (but don't know for sure) is that dogs
probably lose upper range hearing first so there may be some lower range
left.

It's harmless to try a dog whistle (apt to not work as I think they are all
upper range right?) and some lower range ones (I'm thinking it's rabbits or
something?).

Yes on the training time. Our actual 'training' that isnt a combined play,
is short little bits. Might be a bit more than 5 mins but not more than 10,
spread across several dogs.

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:14:03 -0500, cshenk wrote:

"sonofdog" wrote
cshenk wrote:

dogs that are hard of hearing very often are sensitive to air
vibrations caused by sounds, try this: being close to her clap your
hands twice and if she looks up at you immediately give a treat. Be
patient,repeat a few times, you maybe able to train this way. When you
noticed that she is checking visually with you frequently (attention)
you may start training different hand/body signals. Just remember to
train one command at a time in short 3-5 min sessions.

That's sensible. At the fosters, she was easily called by stomping on
the floor nearish her. Vibration. They however had a wood floor and
while I have a minimal wood overlay frame, it's a slab floor. No
discernable vibration.

slab floor made out of concrete? that will transmit vibrations quite good
and she might detect it

I was out at a local sports/hunting/fishing place here and your post
struck me at that time (didn't reply yesterday but saw it). When I was
in there getting Don some Xmas gifts (he loves fishing) the idea of the
hunting call items came in to my mind. I asked them if I could bring
her in (on a leash with a promise to clean up if she has any accidents,
not that I expect any) and they said yes. While I suspect (but don't
know for sure) is that dogs probably lose upper range hearing first so
there may be some lower range left.

I'm not sure about dogs, ask vet, but it is a case with people that high
pitched sounds are lost first


It's harmless to try a dog whistle (apt to not work as I think they are
all upper range right?) and some lower range ones (I'm thinking it's
rabbits or something?).

ask Dogman about it, I believe some can be tuned, I'm not a musician but
maybe you could use mouthpiece of some instruments ?


Yes on the training time. Our actual 'training' that isnt a combined
play, is short little bits. Might be a bit more than 5 mins but not
more than 10, spread across several dogs.

I do train as we play and always one dog one command at a time. When they
trained you may attempt to put them on a leash with a brace and do some
heeling ?

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:48:17 +0000 (UTC), sonofdog
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 15:14:03 -0500, cshenk wrote:

It's harmless to try a dog whistle (apt to not work as I think they are
all upper range right?) and some lower range ones (I'm thinking it's
rabbits or something?).

ask Dogman about it, I believe some can be tuned, I'm not a musician but
maybe you could use mouthpiece of some instruments ?

There's really only one way to find out, and that's to actually try
various whistles and observe the results.

Anything from a retriever whistle to a storm whistle to a
sheepherder's whistle to a traditional, high-pitched ("silent") dog
whistle may do the job. None are very expensive.

Start with any old whistle she has laying around, and go from there.

--
Dogman

On 11/23/2010 9:00 PM, cshenk wrote:


I don't claim to be the best 'dog person' by any means but no dog marks
in the house. There *may* be an 'accident or 2' but unless your cat is
marking the house and it smells to high heaven of cat ****, dogs don't
do that. It's basic training only.

Not true at all.

"sonofdog" wrote
cshenk wrote:

That's sensible. At the fosters, she was easily called by stomping on
the floor nearish her. Vibration. They however had a wood floor and
while I have a minimal wood overlay frame, it's a slab floor. No
discernable vibration.

slab floor made out of concrete? that will transmit vibrations quite good
and she might detect it

Umm, sorry but the only thing that happens when I jump up and down on a slab
of concrete is I hurt my feet. (grin).

It's harmless to try a dog whistle (apt to not work as I think they are
all upper range right?) and some lower range ones (I'm thinking it's
rabbits or something?).

ask Dogman about it, I believe some can be tuned, I'm not a musician but
maybe you could use mouthpiece of some instruments ?

Dog whistle didnt work. A funky duck one seemed to generate some level of
reaction.

Yes on the training time. Our actual 'training' that isnt a combined
play, is short little bits. Might be a bit more than 5 mins but not
more than 10, spread across several dogs.

I do train as we play and always one dog one command at a time. When they
trained you may attempt to put them on a leash with a brace and do some
heeling ?

Heeling isn't as much of an issue here just now. I'd rather work on a
recall method for Mabel first. For now, we are doing other basics with her
slowly. She's a bright little lady and seems to know a good bit but not
much on hand signs yet.

Her heeling isn't good but she doesn't pull and for now, she walks with me
or Charlotte who can see well if she's getting underfoot. With only a week
here, we are working on basics like 'leave the kitty crunchies alone'.

On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 19:30:55 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

[...]
ask Dogman about it, I believe some can be tuned, I'm not a musician but
maybe you could use mouthpiece of some instruments ?

Dog whistle didnt work. A funky duck one seemed to generate some level of
reaction.

There's a lot of different dog whistles:

http://www.gundogsupply.com/whistles---lanyards.html

And each covers a somewhat different range.

And storm whistles:

http://www.stormwhistles.com/

And you might want to consider a remote vibrating collar:

http://www.deafdogs.org/resources/vibramakers.php

Or make your own:

http://www.deafdogs.org/resources/vibracollar.php

Or buy a cheapie on the web, or at your local pet sto

http://www.amazon.com/Remote-Control.../dp/B000TGU86G

Use it as a "look at me" command, and then give her a hand signal when
she does, etc.

--
Dogman