"cshenk" wrote
"Jo Wolf" wrote

My current 15 yo now has a "high normal" on BUN and creatinine, and the
vet said to make no changes in his diet.... 34% Pro. He's healthy, very
active, and has excellent muscle mass for age. Goes up stairs a lot
faster than I do.... A "little deaf".... not unusual.

Grin, Mabel gets total 'high=good' on this one. It's one of several
reasons why we elected to have her dental work done. It looks like just
maybe, this elderly lady if well cared for now, may have several years in
her yet if they've nipped what may have been cancer.

Aunti Mabel Anne has fully recovered and is back on her normal ground RMB
with treats. She'd started trying to sneak Cash's bone into her room for
the night so she has one of her own size in there now.

Being smaller and much smaller jawed, the big ones he gets she can just nose
into her area and he tends to pick them up and walk back with them (grin).
She instead gets the meaty rib bones which she can carry and hold easier in
her paws as she knarfs them.

She's obviously feeling better. Spent most of the morning grabbing Cash
toys and dropping them on him then playing tug-o-war. Her favorite is a
rope with 2 knots and she will trail it before him until he grabs the other
end and starts a mock-war.

Hush your giggling now. It's nap-time!

On Feb 18, 5:00*pm, Bill Bell wrote:
My dog just got over a few weeks of kidney trouble. ...

My apologies for being so long in responding! Thanks to everyone who
offered advice, or at least read my request for help. I would like to
report what happened.

We talked to various knowledgeable people about our problem, as well
as yourselves. Finally someone (can't remember who) suggested Royal
Canin MediCal food based on duck. Within days, my dog's unquenchable
thirst disappeared, as did his frequent need to urinate, and his
urine's specific gravity popped back up to normal. We had to
administer antibiotics to clear some bacteria from his urine for a few
weeks but he's ok now.

Anyway, thought you might like to know what happened in this case.

Thanks you very much for your help.

Thanks for that follow-up!!!!!!!!!!! And glad to see that your dog is
now doing well.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

Hello Buglady,
I am now an old and retired person - which I truly love. My
original comment was been pretty clear, protein is not the culprit,
never has been - but divorcing the phosphorus that naturally comes in
with nearly all proteins is just about impossible. High protein foods
will almost always contain much higher levels of phos. You simply
can't get down to the level of phosphorus well documented and proven
to be effective, without reducing the protein as well.
We can always point to examples that are contrary to what the
evidence is. My great grandmother smoked until she died at 93 - that
doesn't mean it's appropriate for everyone to smoke. I'm glad your cat
made it to that age on high protein foods - but that's an "n" of 1 -
like my 93 year old grandmother. The published studies and evidence
are overwhelmingly in favor of reduced levels of phos, and increased
levels of Omega 3 fatty acids for animals with renal failure.


On Mar 7, 10:17*pm, "buglady" wrote:
Good gravy Steve, most of your old posts are gone, thought you'd erased
yourself!

..............And once again for the nineteenth billion time, the words high
protein don't necessarily come into it.
Restrict phosphorus, yes, restrict protein no.

Let's all bow to Evidence Based Medicine!
My moderate renal failure cat made it to 20.5 years w/o restriction of
protein.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"Steve Crane" wrote in message

...



There are three Grade 1 Evidence Based Medicine published studies that
unequivocally prove that restricting phosphorus, restricting protein
(the source of the vast majority of dietary phosphorus) and increasing
Omega 3 fatty acids which protect renal tubules is hugely beneficial
to dogs and cat which have renal failure.

Actually Purina has done some good work on a number of different
areas. Interestingly - their renal diet for dogs contains slightly
less protein - and about the same amount of phosphorus as k/d. While
the protein leve in NF is set about half a percent higher, the
digestibility is quite a bit lower, thus to total protein available is
slightly less than k/d. Purina obviously believes low protein and the
low phos that comes with it are correct for renal failure dogs.


On Mar 8, 5:22*pm, (Jo Wolf) wrote:
Well, if Steve is still at Hill's, he wouldn't believe what I wrote
because the research was done by Purina...... *{chuckle} *I'd forgotten
that's where he worked when I used to come in here before.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

"Steve Crane" wrote in message
...
Hello Buglady,
I am now an old and retired person - which I truly love.

..........Well good! Hope you enjoy yourself. Too many don't know how to
after they retire.

.. I'm glad your cat
made it to that age on high protein foods - but that's an "n" of 1 -

.............Most people only care about the "n"s in their household!

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"Bill Bell" wrote in message
...
Finally someone (can't remember who) suggested Royal
Canin MediCal food based on duck. Within days, my dog's unquenchable thirst
disappeared, as did his frequent need to urinate, and his urine's specific
gravity popped back up to normal. We had to
administer antibiotics to clear some bacteria from his urine for a few weeks
but he's ok now.

..............Thanks for posting back - glad to hear your pup is doing well.
I'll just say, though, that you may not want to stay on a prescription diet
forever, especially if it's some kind of renal diet. There may be no need.
I couldn't find any kind of Medi-cal food with duck except the
hypoallergenic. Is this what your pup is on?

buglady
take out the dog before replying

On Mar 30, 6:25*pm, "buglady" wrote:

I'll just say, though, that you may not want to stay on a prescription diet
forever, especially if it's some kind of renal diet. *There may be no need.
I couldn't find any kind of Medi-cal food with duck except the
hypoallergenic. *Is this what your pup is on?

Yes, that's right. Forgot to mention that. It might be important too.
We give him biweekly injections that have been formulated by a
specialist against various allergens.

Bill

"Bill Bell" wrote in message
...
On Mar 30, 6:25 pm, "buglady" wrote:

I'll just say, though, that you may not want to stay on a prescription
diet
forever, especially if it's some kind of renal diet. There may be no need.
I couldn't find any kind of Medi-cal food with duck except the
hypoallergenic. Is this what your pup is on?

Yes, that's right. Forgot to mention that. It might be important too.
We give him biweekly injections that have been formulated by a
specialist against various allergens.

.............Ah, OK!

buglady
take out the dog before replying