Oh, yee, gawds. Influenza viruses come in new "flavors" of type
combinations more than annually and mutate into new ones regularly. Flu
vaccines do work. But they are specific to that year's combinations and
mutations at the time the specific formula was decided to be most
specific to that year. As with "colds" there are many flu viruses
floating around at one time. If you get the one that isn't in that
year's vaccine and you have no immunity to it, you get screwed.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

"Char" wrote in message
news ..
Let me explain it to ya since you don't understand. I posted a link
several times to an article that used several studies showing that
vaccines cause autoimmune diseases, more than one and even alter DNA. They
do. I think you are the one not being responsible by not checking out the
information that is out there, that I've put right under your nose. I
can't force you to read it

.................Oh honey, I've been at this a long time. Perhaps you're the
one that needs to do some reading and get better links. You can't make
anyone do anything. All you can do is to make sure they have reliable
information so they'll be able to make good decisions. Many of the links on
Driscoll's page don't work.

.. If you haven't done your research don't flame me when you don't
have a clue. It seems you are the one not being responsible.

................Touchy aren't ya! Actually I'm the one who does research.
You just quote popular websites.

And then there's the issue of BYB - where way too
many of the smaller dogs hail from. They start out life at a distinct
disadvantage.
I agree but it's not relevant.

.................Yes____it____is. Whether or not to vax your pups/cats and
with what should be decided on an individual basis. So the dog's breeding
and former condition DO count in making decisions.

...............And I'll bet you that some of them have lost whole or
partial
litters to parvo.

Nothing is 100% effective against parvo.

...............not even a natural fed dog from utero who has never been
vaccinated?

Of course some lost pups to it.

.............So I should get 4 or 5 dogs and just prepare myself to lose a
couple? LEt's see, I don't want to end up with more than two dogs, so
should 4 dogs be enough?

However a dog fed a species appropriate diet and not exposed to pesticides
like Frontline and Heartguard will naturally be healthier than one that is
jabbed multiple times a year,

..............No one said anything about multiple jabs multiple times a year.
I'm talking about using vaccines minimally. Life ain't black and white.
And it may surprise you to know I've been a raw feeder for years.

To get to the point you're talking about you have to be
willing to sacrifice animals to disease. Only the strong live.

Still don't get it do ya?

................Honey, AFAIC you just got here. Doubtless people need to be
aware of the dangers of vaccines, but we were discussing this back in 2005.

You have been given many facts by me in this thread.

..............Mostly you've given your opinion, endlessly.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

On 3/29/2011 2:28 PM, Jo Wolf wrote:
Oh, yee, gawds. Influenza viruses come in new "flavors" of type
combinations more than annually and mutate into new ones regularly. Flu
vaccines do work.

Prove it. If they work why hasn't the percentage of people who get the
flu gone down? I've researched the numbers on the US government website.
It doesn't show a difference when vaccines were started.

And down here in the Deep South, even the most screwy of the holistic
vets prescribe conventional preventives for heartworm, because it's When
the dog gets it, not IF, when nothing is given. Flea preventive is a
necessity in some areas down here, too.... not the so-called natural
versions, either. We don't have a winter freeze off of mosquitoes, and
on a couple of warm days in my area, they are flyin', and the fleas are
hoppin'. Go down to Florida and they just don't take a break.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

Flu vaccine..... You only register what you want to register. The
annual flu vaccine is somewhat different for each year, but can't
possibly cover every known and unknown variant of the virus. In that
respect, think about lepto variants vs lepto vaccines, and kennel cough
variants vs vaccines. SHEESH!

Effectiveness of a flu vaccine is determined by how many cases of flu
are diagnosed as being caused by the virus in that year's vaccine, then
determining whether those individuals were vaccinated against that
year's variant in th vaccine.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

"Jo Wolf" wrote in message
...
Go down to Florida and they just don't take a break.

.................I know, I live in Flori-duh. Not much of a winter this
year, big hatch recently because of premature warmup. Blech

buglady
take out the dog before replying

On 3/30/2011 4:57 PM, Jo Wolf wrote:
Flu vaccine..... You only register what you want to register. The
annual flu vaccine is somewhat different for each year, but can't
possibly cover every known and unknown variant of the virus. In that
respect, think about lepto variants vs lepto vaccines, and kennel cough
variants vs vaccines. SHEESH!

Don't post to make it look like I'm stupid because I'm not. Of course it
changes year to year but that is beside the point. If it worked at all,
in any year there would be a reduction in the number of people that get
the flu and there isn't. I'm comparing percentages of the population
that get the flu before there were flu shots and after there were flu
shots. There is no drop. You are the one ignoring government statistics,
not me. If it's effective why isn't there proof in the statistics? Why
are there no studies showing that flu shots prevent flu at all? Get it
now? SHEESH!

Effectiveness of a flu vaccine is determined by how many cases of flu
are diagnosed as being caused by the virus in that year's vaccine, then
determining whether those individuals were vaccinated against that
year's variant in th vaccine.

Show me where that was ever determined to be effective.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

On 3/30/2011 4:51 PM, Jo Wolf wrote:
And down here in the Deep South, even the most screwy of the holistic
vets prescribe conventional preventives for heartworm,

No they don't.

because it's When
the dog gets it, not IF, when nothing is given.
Where is your proof? Show me stats that all dogs that don't get
heartworm "preventative" (another misnomer because it's not a
preventative at all, it's a pesticide) end up with heartworm. What you
said is simply not true. Many people just beef up their pets' diets and
do heartworm checks now and then to be sure. If heartworm was inevitable
we'd have no wild foxes or wolves.

Flea preventive is a
necessity in some areas down here, too.... not the so-called natural
versions, either. We don't have a winter freeze off of mosquitoes, and
on a couple of warm days in my area, they are flyin', and the fleas are
hoppin'. Go down to Florida and they just don't take a break.

You make all these statements with absolutely no proof that they are
true. I'm in Florida and I rely on natural flea prevention as do many
others. Half of Florida from about Tampa north does have freezes in
winter. However, that lie is besides the point. Flea "prevention"
(better known as pesticides) is not necessary anywhere. I do it and so
do many others.

And because I avoid those pesticides for fleas and heartworms my pets
don't come down with cancers and other seizures and death at all and in
general others like me have far less incidents of problems associated
with those chemicals.

You are poisoning your pets and your family because you are too lazy to
do what it takes to stay well. I don't use pesticides on my lawn, in the
house, and especially not on my pets.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia