In greenery. Schroeder, Border Terrorist... um, terrierist.... er,
Terrier, born in late 1992, so not still with me, was a cow. Or thought
he was. Or maybe a goat. If it was Green he ate it. Which meant I had
to watch him closely in this, the land of azaleas (and other problem
green things). He didn't just nibble now and then, he grazed.
Constantly.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

On 4/12/2011 2:39 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message
...

Your ignorance regarding all things dog is showing again. A dog
food with corn as its first ingredient is not a mid-range kibble.
Muttley may do fine on it, because you've never given him
anything better, but that doesn't make it a mid-range kibble.

It's mid-range for the usual kibble that is sold at food stores. They
also have a low range "Field Chunks" in a huge bag that is half the
cost of what I normally get, and the last bag I bought was even higher
grade, with Lamb (#1) and brown rice, but still not the most expensive
on the shelves at Food Lion. I've also given him "Taste of the Wild",
which is a premium brand, with no big difference. Of course, as you
neglected to mention, I also supplement his daily kibble with beef
kidneys, hearts, and marrow bones, and also pig's feet.

Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few days, and he was eating
just the higher grade kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the
raw meat and bones they are usually not so bad, and some of them turn
white when they dry out, indicating a lot of bone.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

Why not just make the switch to all raw and dumping the really bad
kibble? Muttley would appreciate it I'm sure. And you should have
noticed a lot of difference between the kibble you feed now and Taste of
the Wild.

On 4/12/2011 3:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:39:48 -0400, "P E
wrote:


Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few days, and he was eating just
the higher grade kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the raw meat and
bones they are usually not so bad, and some of them turn white when they dry
out, indicating a lot of bone.
Changing a dog's diet that quickly (and dramatically) alone can cause
smelly poops, and even diarrhea.

Don't do that.

Also, kibble can give a dog a sensitive stomach, making the dog unable
to eat other things without episodes of diarrhea. It's best to get away
from it and stay with the raw stuff. I adopted a cat like that. He was
on kibble when I got him and couldn't keep anything down. It took a
couple of weeks to get him past that but now he eats anything the dogs
do and has no problems. He was on one of those useless Rx diets.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 04:34:23 -0400, Char
wrote:

On 4/12/2011 3:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:39:48 -0400, "P E
wrote:


Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few days, and he was eating just
the higher grade kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the raw meat and
bones they are usually not so bad, and some of them turn white when they dry
out, indicating a lot of bone.
Changing a dog's diet that quickly (and dramatically) alone can cause
smelly poops, and even diarrhea.

Don't do that.

Also, kibble can give a dog a sensitive stomach, making the dog unable
to eat other things without episodes of diarrhea.

Strangely enough, kibble has never given any of *my* dogs either a
sensitive stomach or episodes of diarrhea. Their stools are regular,
brown, firm, and without much odor.

Nota bene: More evidence that there's "different strokes for different
folks," and for dogs, too:

Dog Vomiting And Diarrhea From Eating Raw Diets
Posted on January 28, 2008 by Rob Mueller

We have all experienced bouts of diarrhea and vomiting with our
animals. Carnivores in general readily vomit food and most pets have
suffered from an occasional bout of diarrhea. Depending on whether or
not the occurrences are severe or not or frequent, there is really no
need for immediate concern. Allergies can play a part in the
occurrence of diarrhea or vomiting. In Chinese medicine they recommend
a cooler meat such as turkey or rabbit to cool off the G.I. track.Use
of beef or chicken should be temporarily switched to the cooler meat
sources to calm down the system. Another possibility for the upset
could be that the intestinal microbes are slow to adapt to the natural
raw food. In cases like this I always recommend the use of additional
kifer or similar probiotic formula (soon to be offered E-BARF PLUS our
new and improved BARF Plus) to help regulate the intestinal flora.
Diarrhea commonly occurs in dogs and cats. If the problem persists, or
if the stool becomes bloody then an alternative food source must be
found.

http://www.barfworld.com/blog/?p=76

--
Dogman

"Jo Wolf" wrote

In greenery. Schroeder, Border Terrorist... um, terrierist.... er,
Terrier, born in late 1992, so not still with me, was a cow. Or thought
he was. Or maybe a goat. If it was Green he ate it. Which meant I had
to watch him closely in this, the land of azaleas (and other problem
green things). He didn't just nibble now and then, he grazed.
Constantly.

Grr, I understand!

Today Don let both dogs out about 10am. Aunti Mabel took off after a bunny
and Cash *stopped her* while the bunny apparently ran between his legs then
hopped in the lettuce container!

The bunny being a sensible lady ate most of the crop. Don tells me she
looked at Cash then hopped off fast while he guarded Aunti Mabel. Cash then
sniffed and ate the last leaf!

*sigh* Fortunately lettuce is fast. I put more seeds in. WHAAH! I didnt
get *any* though!

Anyone who thinks dogs dont teach each other over time, is delusional I bet.
I bet Aunti Mabel is gonna be guarding baby bunnies shortly as they eat my
lettuce. Well, maybe not. I still hope she will chase them!

I have not posted on this group for years but let
me report about Max, my 13.5 year-old Havanese.

1. For about 7 years my dog was on a low oxalate
diet whose primary ingredients we brown rice,
black- eyed peas, flax seed oil, vitamins, and low
sodium salt. He also received potassium citrate to
keep his urine PH around 7 so calcium oxalate
crystals will not form.

There was no strong smell to Max's feces on this
diet and the feces were colored liver-bile gold
and so were
easy to spot at night.

2. Presently, at 13.5 years, Max's diet consists
of corn, yes cooked corn, plus sweet green peas,
salmon, vitamins and potassium citrate to keep
his urine PH close to 7.

He seems to be doing well on this diet. He snacks
on yogurt and (no salt added) brown rice cakes.

Perhaps if he were on an all meat diet he would be
in better shape but we did not run that condition! :-)

The diets were formulated he

http://www.petdiets.com/

Dr. Remillard (Rebecca Remillard, PhD, DVM, DACVN,
founder of PetDiets.com) has been great!

--Marshall



On 4/13/2011 3:30 AM, Char wrote:
On 4/12/2011 2:39 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message
...


Your ignorance regarding all things dog is
showing again. A dog
food with corn as its first ingredient is not a
mid-range kibble.
Muttley may do fine on it, because you've never
given him
anything better, but that doesn't make it a
mid-range kibble.

It's mid-range for the usual kibble that is sold
at food stores. They also have a low range
"Field Chunks" in a huge bag that is half the
cost of what I normally get, and the last bag I
bought was even higher grade, with Lamb (#1) and
brown rice, but still not the most expensive on
the shelves at Food Lion. I've also given him
"Taste of the Wild", which is a premium brand,
with no big difference. Of course, as you
neglected to mention, I also supplement his
daily kibble with beef kidneys, hearts, and
marrow bones, and also pig's feet.

Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few
days, and he was eating just the higher grade
kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the
raw meat and bones they are usually not so bad,
and some of them turn white when they dry out,
indicating a lot of bone.

Paul and Muttley
www.muttleydog.com

Why not just make the switch to all raw and
dumping the really bad kibble? Muttley would
appreciate it I'm sure. And you should have
noticed a lot of difference between the kibble you
feed now and Taste of the Wild.

On 4/13/2011 1:19 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 04:34:23 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/12/2011 3:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:39:48 -0400, "P E
wrote:


Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few days, and he was eating just
the higher grade kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the raw meat and
bones they are usually not so bad, and some of them turn white when they dry
out, indicating a lot of bone.
Changing a dog's diet that quickly (and dramatically) alone can cause
smelly poops, and even diarrhea.

Don't do that.

Also, kibble can give a dog a sensitive stomach, making the dog unable
to eat other things without episodes of diarrhea.
Strangely enough, kibble has never given any of *my* dogs either a
sensitive stomach or episodes of diarrhea. Their stools are regular,
brown, firm, and without much odor.

Just found this reply. I didn't say that kibble caused soft stools, I
said it made them unable to handle other foods besides kibble. Also I
didn't say that all kibble fed dogs would have this problem. Many do,
wonderful for you if you don't have that problem.

On Fri, 13 May 2011 21:26:30 -0400, Char
wrote:

On 4/13/2011 1:19 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 04:34:23 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/12/2011 3:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:39:48 -0400, "P E
wrote:


Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few days, and he was eating just
the higher grade kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the raw meat and
bones they are usually not so bad, and some of them turn white when they dry
out, indicating a lot of bone.
Changing a dog's diet that quickly (and dramatically) alone can cause
smelly poops, and even diarrhea.

Don't do that.

Also, kibble can give a dog a sensitive stomach, making the dog unable
to eat other things without episodes of diarrhea.
Strangely enough, kibble has never given any of *my* dogs either a
sensitive stomach or episodes of diarrhea. Their stools are regular,
brown, firm, and without much odor.

Just found this reply.

And after only a month!

I didn't say that kibble caused soft stools, I
said it made them unable to handle other foods besides kibble.

Nota bene: None of my kibble-fed dogs have problems handling other
foods. Nor do the vast majority of dogs that board here. Probably
because I only feed my dogs sensible alternatives.

Also I didn't say that all kibble fed dogs would have this problem. Many do,
wonderful for you if you don't have that problem.

Neither do the vast majority of dog owners who feed kibble.

You have such an irrational fear of kibble (kibblephobia?), Char, that
I'm surprised that you can even even write the word "kibble" without
breaking out in hives and convulsions.

--
Dogman

On 5/14/2011 1:22 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2011 21:26:30 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/13/2011 1:19 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 04:34:23 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/12/2011 3:07 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:39:48 -0400, "P E
wrote:


Char: When I had run out of raw food for a few days, and he was eating just
the higher grade kibble, he had some smelly poops, but with the raw meat and
bones they are usually not so bad, and some of them turn white when they dry
out, indicating a lot of bone.
Changing a dog's diet that quickly (and dramatically) alone can cause
smelly poops, and even diarrhea.

Don't do that.

Also, kibble can give a dog a sensitive stomach, making the dog unable
to eat other things without episodes of diarrhea.
Strangely enough, kibble has never given any of *my* dogs either a
sensitive stomach or episodes of diarrhea. Their stools are regular,
brown, firm, and without much odor.
Just found this reply.
And after only a month!

You just aren't important in my life.

I didn't say that kibble caused soft stools, I
said it made them unable to handle other foods besides kibble.
Nota bene: None of my kibble-fed dogs have problems handling other
foods. Nor do the vast majority of dogs that board here. Probably
because I only feed my dogs sensible alternatives.

Also I didn't say that all kibble fed dogs would have this problem. Many do,
wonderful for you if you don't have that problem.
Neither do the vast majority of dog owners who feed kibble.

All you have is anecdotal evidence that means nothing because of your
bias. Indeed, the kibble manufacturers and vets push customers to keep
their pets on commercial food only and tell them not to feed other
foods, telling them it causes harm.

You have such an irrational fear of kibble (kibblephobia?), Char, that
I'm surprised that you can even even write the word "kibble" without
breaking out in hives and convulsions.

It's not irrational. Kibble causes kidney problems and diabetes directly
and since it leaves animals in less than optimal health they are more
vulnerable to most everything else like cancer, heartworms, and fleas.
Add to that, you have to consider that a kibble fed dog is likely to get
more vaccines than a raw fed dog which leads to autoimmune diseases.

On Sun, 15 May 2011 08:35:08 -0400, Char
wrote:

[...]
Also, kibble can give a dog a sensitive stomach, making the dog unable
to eat other things without episodes of diarrhea.
Strangely enough, kibble has never given any of *my* dogs either a
sensitive stomach or episodes of diarrhea. Their stools are regular,
brown, firm, and without much odor.
Just found this reply.
And after only a month!

You just aren't important in my life.

Apparently important enough to get you rummaging through my old posts,
EH?

I didn't say that kibble caused soft stools, I
said it made them unable to handle other foods besides kibble.
Nota bene: None of my kibble-fed dogs have problems handling other
foods. Nor do the vast majority of dogs that board here. Probably
because I only feed my dogs sensible alternatives.

Also I didn't say that all kibble fed dogs would have this problem. Many do,
wonderful for you if you don't have that problem.
Neither do the vast majority of dog owners who feed kibble.

All you have is anecdotal evidence that means nothing because of your
bias.

That's all you have/had, too.

You have such an irrational fear of kibble (kibblephobia?), Char, that
I'm surprised that you can even even write the word "kibble" without
breaking out in hives and convulsions.

It's not irrational. Kibble causes kidney problems and diabetes directly

Kibble doesn't cause diabetes, etc. in *my* dogs. Nor in the vast
majority of dogs. Too much kibble, and kibble with too many carbs can
cause diabetes, just like carbs can in humans.

and since it leaves animals in less than optimal health

There are no healthier dogs on this planet than mine.

And they eat premium kibble.

they are more
vulnerable to most everything else like cancer, heartworms, and fleas.

And don't forget "global warming," EH?

Add to that, you have to consider that a kibble fed dog is likely to get
more vaccines than a raw fed dog which leads to autoimmune diseases.

A dog only gets the vaccines that:

1. Are required by law.
2. Its owner wants.

It's got zero to do with what the dog eats.

--
Dogman