our rescue took in a purebred Border Terrier bitch from a small-dog
rescue in Kansas City. They'd gotten her from a small local rescue run
out of a vet clinic.... where she'd been dumped by a puppymill operator.
The vet had gotten the latest dogs neutered and spayed and turned them
over to his staff, as usual. Before Lulu was placed, the vet died....
staff had to move all the dogs out promptly.

The KC rescue's foster for her, a groomer, got her bathed and went to
work on clipping her coat and was going to clean Lulu's ears.... only to
discover that they were totally plugged. She quit there and they got
her to their vet the next day. The rescue contacted us and we accepted
her, to be delivered ASAP once we set things up. Vet found that it was
tissue blocking the canals and gave no great hope for Lulu having any
usefull hearing. He did surgery to see what was going on and found lots
of polyps (removed) and lots of Gunk.... couldn't get deep enough to see
her eardrums.... did a dental, and sent her home with the foster after
muttering about allergies and chronic untreated infections. The rescue
put her on Hill's z/d and set about cleaning ears and medicating as
directed. The foster thought Lulu could hear her own dogs barking by
Thursday (surgery Tuesday). On Saturday, our exhibitors at a big
cluster of shows and trials in KC found her a ride to Louisville, and
the last day of a big cluster there on Sunday... I knew we had folks a
that site, too. Our regional coordinator put Lulu with Joye, who is
well qualified to work with a deaf dog.

By Sunday night, when Lulu got home with our foster, Joye thought her
hearing might be useful. Within another day or two, it was clear it was
normal... even with her ears still full of Gunk, more of which was being
washed out daily. Lulu, renamed Rosie, has turned out to be a quick
study.... and is now ready to go to her new home after 3 weeks to get
her ears clean, instead of an additional month or more of needing to
learn to be a house dog.

Lulu is about the 6th or 8th dog we've gotten from the puppymill system,
OR privately owned with kennel dog syndrome, as adults, in the past
2-3 years. I've been amazed how quickly they have all learned housedog
skills.... even if still fearful of humans.

I've had two in the past year that have learned "sit" from watching me
work with my own knuckleheaded re-cycled boy.... and recalls from
following my dogs when I call them in.

I'd taken Susie, my current puppymill girl, to the training center many
times when I've known that there would be only a few well-behaved
advanced work dogs and their clued-in owners. She'd take treats from me
for a few minutes, then would zone out into her happy place, oblivious
to our environment. Last week, I took her over on a Friday evening. It
was chilly and windy, so there were about 4-5 of us women in the office,
and a teenager with her dog. It was Not quiet. A couple with a child
who looked about 7 came in for information, and the kid went for Susie
faster than I could move.... and she leaned into his hand for petting
and oozed toward him and got a hug (again the kid moved too fast) that
she didn't seem to mind at all. I was sweating blood, but so thrilled
with her reaction that I could hardly stand it. After the couple and
kid left, I grabbed a friend and handed her some treats, and took her
hand down to Susie, who had been avoiding treats from others since
September. Susie chowed down, even after I removed my hand. She
accepted goodies from the others, as well.

So this week I selected her probable home. I'll do intensive public
work with her now for two weeks, then she'll meet the couple and we'll
see how they react and she reacts, and make a final decision. They have
had experience with a puppymill adult, a Collie, that never completely
"recovered", so I want to set her up for better success....

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

On Sat, 9 Apr 2011 01:12:58 -0400, (Jo Wolf) wrote:

[...]
Lulu is about the 6th or 8th dog we've gotten from the puppymill system,
OR privately owned with kennel dog syndrome, as adults, in the past
2-3 years. I've been amazed how quickly they have all learned housedog
skills.... even if still fearful of humans.

KDS is a real phenomenon, Jo. And why a dog should never be evaluated
while the dog is still confined to a shelter (IMO). The dog you see
inside the shelter is rarely the dog you get, once you've had him home
for a few months. He could seem overly bold or even aggressive in the
shelter, but once he's getting some individual attention and training,
he can start to thrive. It works the other way around, too. A
seemingly submissive dog can turn into Cujo himself, once he's had
time to size up his new owners, and, say, finds them lacking.

--
Dogman

Oh, I well know it's a real issue. Even for an owner surrender rescue
dog, let alone a shelter dog, I never make my official assessment until
the dog has been in a foster home for at least two weeks. I get some
criticism from a couple of folks on my board of directors for this, but
that's the way it is. I learned the lesson with a Dachshund/Border
Terrier cross bitch I had here a Long time ago. Damn near got an ankle
shredded. I kept her here because there was just Something not right,
despite the fact that she was real comedienne.... and after a number of
months, it became clear, when she went for me when I told her to go out
for "last call" on a chilly damp evening, and had all I could do to get
her into her crate and the door closed safely. Sylvia went to God.

There is also something I've heard called shelter shock. The dog is
usually from a quiet to average home, and so totally overwhelmed by the
noise and crowding and grieving that it doesn't eat, may not drink much,
and withdraws profoundly. If not removed from the setting promptly, the
dog can become ill, or it can suffer real long-term behavioral "damage".

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

On 4/9/2011 1:12 AM, Jo Wolf wrote:
The rescue
put her on Hill's z/d
Which is total garbage and can actually cause what it's supposed to prevent.

We changed her food as soon as we got her... to a high grade grain-free.

I am well aware of the shortcomings of z/d.... and z/d ultra. They have
saved lives as a simple elimination diet, and as a readily available
precription diet, are very helpful in rescue for the dog that is in
transition, geographically, with unknown food allergy problems.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 07:03:03 -0400, Char
wrote:

[...]

"Honey, a Bichon Frise, lived to the ripe old age of nearly 140 - or
20 in human years - when she passed away last month."

"She ate what we ate," Giunta recalled. Aside from pizza, her favorite
dishes were mussels with linguine and chicken francese with angel hair
pasta."

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle...im e_pet.html

If only she'd avoided those carbs, she would have lived to the age of
50, huh, Char?

Heh.

--
Dogman

"Dogman" wrote
Char wrote:

[...]

"Honey, a Bichon Frise, lived to the ripe old age of nearly 140 - or
20 in human years - when she passed away last month."
"She ate what we ate," Giunta recalled. Aside from pizza, her favorite
dishes were mussels with linguine and chicken francese with angel hair
pasta."

If only she'd avoided those carbs, she would have lived to the age of
50, huh, Char?

Grin, lovely story! Nice giggle too but in 'general terms' I agree with
Char on feeding. I'm just not radically inclined about it.

Chez Shenk's ristorante happily deals out a mix of ground RMB and Blue
Wilderness kibble with plenty of side treats of the non-grain sort (Jerky,
broth, yam, rice and green beans). The cat loves a little spoon of buttered
rice. The dogs love the yam treats and green beans. If they were not wheat
intolerant (unsure of corn but the cat loves tofu and no harm seen yet) I'd
happily let them have a strand of dashi cooked udon noodle.

Had to raise my planters last year. Cash and/or Sammy were eating the
spinach (grin). Probably Sammy actually as he was taller.

I wonder what garden escapades Aunti Mabel will show? My own thoughts are
that if a dog wants to dig up a carrot and eat it as a treat, it's a
harmless thing and anything actively dangerous to them is out of reach.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 13:26:01 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

"Dogman" wrote
Char wrote:

[...]
"Honey, a Bichon Frise, lived to the ripe old age of nearly 140 - or
20 in human years - when she passed away last month."
"She ate what we ate," Giunta recalled. Aside from pizza, her favorite
dishes were mussels with linguine and chicken francese with angel hair
pasta."

If only she'd avoided those carbs, she would have lived to the age of
50, huh, Char?

Grin, lovely story! Nice giggle too but in 'general terms' I agree with
Char on feeding. I'm just not radically inclined about it.
[...]

I agree with Char, too. But she takes things too far, which is what
religious zealots always do. I'm a low-carb eater myself. Have been
for almost 25 years. But I probably eat more *complex* carbs than I
used to eat beforehand.

In other words, I'm no religious zealot, and I accept that there's
"different strokes for different folks." For dogs too.

--
Dogman

On 4/10/2011 2:19 PM, Dogman wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 13:26:01 -0400, wrote:

"Dogman" wrote
Char wrote:
[...]
"Honey, a Bichon Frise, lived to the ripe old age of nearly 140 - or
20 in human years - when she passed away last month."
"She ate what we ate," Giunta recalled. Aside from pizza, her favorite
dishes were mussels with linguine and chicken francese with angel hair
pasta."
If only she'd avoided those carbs, she would have lived to the age of
50, huh, Char?
Grin, lovely story! Nice giggle too but in 'general terms' I agree with
Char on feeding. I'm just not radically inclined about it.
[...]

I agree with Char, too. But she takes things too far, which is what
religious zealots always do. I'm a low-carb eater myself. Have been
for almost 25 years. But I probably eat more *complex* carbs than I
used to eat beforehand.

In other words, I'm no religious zealot, and I accept that there's
"different strokes for different folks." For dogs too.

Comparing a human's digestive system to that of a dog doesn't fly. I eat
low carb myself.

Dogs get absolutely no nutritional benefit from eating carbs.

"In the Waltham Book of Dog and Cat Nutrition (2nd edition, 1988), we
read that
"There is no known minimum dietary carbohydrate requirement for either
the dog or the cat. Based on investigations in the dog and with other
species it is likely that dogs and cats can be maintained without
carbohydrates if the diet supplies enough fat or protein from which the
metabolic requirement for glucose is derived."

I personally have NEVER heard of 'carbohydrate deficiency' in any
animal. Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as a "necessary
carbohydrate," just necessary glucose.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 04:51:19 -0400, Char
wrote:

[...]
In other words, I'm no religious zealot, and I accept that there's
"different strokes for different folks." For dogs too.

Comparing a human's digestive system to that of a dog doesn't fly. I eat
low carb myself.

The analogy wasn't that dogs' and humans' digestive systems are the
same, but that, as with humans, "different strokes for different
folks" applies to dogs too.

Some dogs have problems with certain carbs (or too many carbs), just
like some humans do. E.g., some humans can't handle grains (Celiac
disease, etc.); others appear to do well on them.

The Bichon Frise in the article apparently did well on pizza and
pasta, otherwise she wouldn't have made it to the ripe old age of 20.

My dogs do extremely well on premium kibble (and have, for many
years), so I ain't fixing what ain't broke.

Dogs get absolutely no nutritional benefit from eating carbs.

Of course they do! Dogs can easily convert certain carbs to energy
(just like humans), for example.

You can make the argument that dogs don't "need" carbs (some humans
probably don't either, e.g., the Masai, Inuit, etc.) but you cannot
argue that dogs get no nutritional benefit from carbs - 'cause it
ain't true.


--
Dogman