About three months ago, I adopted a 1.5 year old hound-mix from an animal shelter. His name is Axel. They said they found Axel astray (but I believe he may have had a previous owner—and either ran away or was set loose—since he is house-trained very well and is a fast learner). The issue with my dog was, and is, separation anxiety.

At first, Axel would follow me around everywhere I'd go, from room to room, and he would get upset when I left him alone for even a minute. This is when I started crate training him. I had read online a lot about dogs and that they're natural "denning" creatures. Their ancestors lived in packs, slept in dens, and formed hierarchies. For the first week or so I kept the crate in my room so he could sleep next to me, then I moved it to the living room. He got used to it but it was still a problem because he would still bark, even in his crate, all covered up, when I left the apartment. My roommates got sick of it and kept yelling at him to stop.

At this point I signed up for beginner obedience classes. I found them extremely useful and I learned plenty of stuff. I learned all about letting my dog know "who's in charge" and I continue to practice behavior that emphasizes my status as "alpha male" in this relationship.

The separation anxiety still persists. I have trouble getting my roommates to understand what I know. My roommates and family think it's all bullshit and they won't listen to me when I give them professionally-obtained information. For example, no matter how many times I bring it up, they will always greet the dog with plenty of praise and attention when they walk in the door. Because he's cute. My dog gets excited and jumps up at them when he knows it's wrong (on account of me yelling, "Down!"). One of my roommates' girlfriend is Axel's favorite person to jump up on, and she does not take my advice to ignore him and turn her back. When Axel barks when I'm gone, my roommates open their doors and scream at him to stop, which only exacerbates the situation because the dog feels they are joining in with him. I feel insensitive when I tell them that the only way it's going to stop is if they ignore it and deal with it.

My sister and mother love Axel and give him praise and distractions at the most inappropriate times, such as when he's being punished, during my training time, or when he does something incorrectly. I try to communicate that this is my time with him, or that he's being rewarded for begging, etc., but then my dad blows it all out of proportion and gets angry at me for not letting them pet him. Little do they understand that Axel is a dog in training and this is a very crucial time for him and me. The list goes on.

I realize I do not have a dog behavior problem, I have a human behavior problem. I believe that with time, Axel's behavior will improve, and especially since our relationship is new, I can build it up to a great one and cure his separation anxiety by sticking to the professional practice and advice.

My question is, how do I communicate with other members of "my pack" and teach them all that I've learned in a productive manner? How can I get them to cooperate with me in training my dog?

Chris Harvey wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

About three months ago, I adopted a 1.5 year old hound-mix from an
animal shelter. His name is Axel. They said they found Axel astray
(but I believe he may have had a previous owner—and either ran away
or was set loose—since he is house-trained very well and is a fast
learner). The issue with my dog was, and is, separation anxiety.

At first, Axel would follow me around everywhere I'd go, from room to
room, and he would get upset when I left him alone for even a minute.
This is when I started crate training him. I had read online a lot
about dogs and that they're natural "denning" creatures. Their
ancestors lived in packs, slept in dens, and formed hierarchies. For
the first week or so I kept the crate in my room so he could sleep
next to me, then I moved it to the living room. He got used to it but
it was still a problem because he would still bark, even in his
crate, all covered up, when I left the apartment. My roommates got
sick of it and kept yelling at him to stop.

At this point I signed up for beginner obedience classes. I found
them extremely useful and I learned plenty of stuff. I learned all
about letting my dog know "who's in charge" and I continue to
practice behavior that emphasizes my status as "alpha male" in this
relationship.

The separation anxiety still persists. I have trouble getting my
roommates to understand what I know. My roommates and family think
it's all bullshit and they won't listen to me when I give them
professionally-obtained information. For example, no matter how many
times I bring it up, they will always greet the dog with plenty of
praise and attention when they walk in the door. Because he's cute.
My dog gets excited and jumps up at them when he knows it's wrong (on
account of me yelling, "Down!"). One of my roommates' girlfriend is
Axel's favorite person to jump up on, and she does not take my advice
to ignore him and turn her back. When Axel barks when I'm gone, my
roommates open their doors and scream at him to stop, which only
exacerbates the situation because the dog feels they are joining in
with him. I feel insensitive when I tell them that the only way it's
going to stop is if they ignore it and deal with it.

My sister and mother love Axel and give him praise and distractions
at the most inappropriate times, such as when he's being punished,
during my training time, or when he does something incorrectly. I try
to communicate that this is my time with him, or that he's being
rewarded for begging, etc., but then my dad blows it all out of
proportion and gets angry at me for not letting them pet him. Little
do they understand that Axel is a dog in training and this is a very
crucial time for him and me. The list goes on.

I realize I do not have a dog behavior problem, I have a human
behavior problem. I believe that with time, Axel's behavior will
improve, and especially since our relationship is new, I can build it
up to a great one and cure his separation anxiety by sticking to the
professional practice and advice.

My question is, how do I communicate with other members of "my pack"
and teach them all that I've learned in a productive manner? How can
I get them to cooperate with me in training my dog?

Print this message and hand it to them. You totally have the right of
it. You've done good research and are acting right and they are
subborning your training.

The jumping particularily can be a problem. I speak from personal
stance on that. I have serious spinal issues though not yet wheelchar
bound by them. I have many guests who are in their 80's with hip
replacements (some dual hip replacements). My dog Cash is a rescue who
at least looks like a bull mastiff mated with a beagle (yeah, boggles
the mind!). Jumping on people was *immediately* trained out of him.
He will come over, sit and raise paws and all other sorts of begging
behaviour, but he will not jump on people. Ever. Ok, maybe if they
take a baseball bat to us but that will be more 'attack to protect my
pack'.

Tell your roomates, never pet the dog when it is barking
inappropriately. Greeting the dog at the door is ok, reinforces pack
behavior but needs to be done with restraint if the dog is jumping up
on them. The result if you do not train that, is the dog may jump on an
elderly person and knock them over, potentially breaking bones as they
hit the ground. They can also knock over small children and cause
damage and sometimes instinctive *bad stuff* on a shreaking hurt
toddler not used to dogs.

Nuff said?

You are lucky though. Hound mixes are easier to train on these issues
than a lot of other breeds. Although all dogs are individuals and can
vary quite a bit, hounds generally get over separation anxiety (or
never have it if treated right) and given a daily run, tend to be
pretty calm natured.

--

"Chris Harvey" wrote in message
news:29481122.368.1322376991176.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqny18...
About three months ago, I adopted a 1.5 year old hound-mix from an
animal shelter. His name is Axel. They said they found Axel astray (but
I believe he may have had a previous owner—and either ran away or was
set loose—since he is house-trained very well and is a fast learner).
The issue with my dog was, and is, separation anxiety.

I sympathise with you. I adopted Pip, a 2 year old Jack Russell a year
ago . He was a stray and had the same SA issue and also jumping up and
grabbing hands.


At this point I signed up for beginner obedience classes. I found them
extremely useful and I learned plenty of stuff. I learned all about
letting my dog know "who's in charge" and I continue to practice
behavior that emphasizes my status as "alpha male" in this relationship.


Well done for doing research and going to dog training classes .
Unfortunately,the pack leadership stuff and you being Alpha to your dog
is very out- dated and based on a fallacy that dogs are wolves. While it's
useful to have consistant rules that your dog can follow ie not jumping etc
, some rules such as eating first before your dog are pointless. More
here -
http://petinfolinks.webs.com/dominancecontroversy.htm


The separation anxiety still persists.
I have trouble getting my roommates to understand what I know. My roommates
and family think it's all bullshit and they won't listen to me when I give
them professionally-obtained information.
For example, no matter how many times I bring it up, they will always greet
the dog with plenty of praise and attention when they walk in the door.
Because he's cute. My dog gets excited and jumps up at them when he knows
it's wrong (on account of me yelling, "Down!").

I have the same problem with asking people on walks not to give my dogs
treats.
It really annoying especially as he is an over friendly dog. I can
understand your frustration here and they really shouldn't do it. You
could pop your dog on a light leash when you have visitors so he can't
approach them or you could get them to ask him to sit before they stroke
him. No point in you yelling Down at him , because it's not working and it
hasn't been reinforced enough. Dogs don't know wrong or right in the sense
that we do. They know safe and dangerous and they know what is rewarding
and what isn't but not wrong or right. He's not doing something wrong ,
he's doing something that you dont want him to do .


When Axel barks when I'm gone, my roommates open their doors and scream
at him to stop, which only exacerbates the situation because the dog
feels they are joining in with him. I feel insensitive when I tell them
that the only way it's going to stop is if they ignore it and deal with
it.

Does Axel have to stay in a crate while you have gone or shut in your room.
He's not only upset that you have gone but also from being seperated from
your flat mates? Not all dogs like being in crates and this can create
anxiety in itself. If he is allowed out in a communal area he might be
happier.

BTW theres no harm in letting him stay in your bedroom at night especially
if you are out a lot in the day. Have you tried leaving him with stuffed
kongs and things to chew?


My sister and mother love Axel and give him praise and distractions at
the most inappropriate times, such as when he's being punished, during my
training time, or when he does something incorrectly.

Again that really is wrong and perhaps you could have training sessions
when they are not there and without distractions for while longer.
Remember you have a young dog and you've had him for a short time . He is
still feeling all over the place and insecure and in that state its hard to
learn and hard to control his excitement at seeing your family and
flatmates and hard to cope alone.
He also having to deal with mixed messages so its not his fault.

What training methods are you using? If he does things incorrectly then
really you should be looking to see if you are making mistakes that cause
him to get it wrong.


I realize I do not have a dog behavior problem, I have a human behavior
problem. I believe that with time, Axel's behavior will improve, and
especially since our relationship is new, I can build it up to a great
one and cure his separation anxiety by sticking to the professional
practice and advice.

Whether Axel improves depends on having the correct information and advice
in the first place. Unfortunately , *anyone* can call themselves a
professional dog trainer or behaviourist and the advice you have been given
based on what you have said here very likely won't help your dog.
Seperation anxiety is an emotional thing, Axel has to learn how to cope
without you and it's not very likely that pack rules and obedience training
will help with that.
You've done a kind thing by adopting Axel and you're willing to care for
him , and spend time training him and going to classes . Most dog owners
don't bother and dump their dog as soon as it displays any unwanted
behaviour.

Will you go one step further for Axel. Check out the weblink I gave you
and read about the links about pack leadership. Look for a trainer that
uses Positive Reinforcment and forget being Alpha to your dog. Go to
Victoria Stilwells website , there is a list of trainers there and also a
forum where you can more info about SA or join and ask for yourself.
http://positively.com/

My question is, how do I communicate with other members of "my pack" and
teach them all that I've learned in a productive manner? How can I get
them to cooperate with me in training my dog?

That's the $64 dollar question!

Good luck.
Alison

Let's get practical..... because, boy, do I understand your
frustration! Here are some things proven to help.

Go to a pet store and pick up a Comfort Zone plug-in-diffuser and
dog-appeasing-pheromone cartridge for it. Plug it in in your bed room.
Put his crate in the bedroom. This pheromone, which we can't smell,
smells to a dog like a nursing mom-dog.... what could be more
comforting.... Plus your reassuring scent is strongest in the bedroom.
See if this helps.

As already mentioned, I think by Alison, is a stuffed KONG. This rubber
toy is shaped like an old fashioned bee hive and has a hollow core.
Stuff the core with some of his dry food mixed with peanut butter, cream
cheese, or the cheese that comes in a presurized can. Freeze overnight,
and leave it in the crate with him when you leave. He is only to get
this when he's crated. But it is a Powerful tool to help make that
crate "his private room".... and to work on most of the day, between
naps. Get the size that's right for him.

A "Thundershirt", now sold in the big box pet stores, is an elastic
(Lycra) shirt that applies moderate even pressure to his entire trunk.
Get the right size. For many dogs, it sharply reduces anxiety. Not
always instantly, and sadly, not for every dog. I used something
similar for one of my guys.... during t-storms.... and it was
excellent. Try the first two ideas first. You can do much the same
thing with a teeshirt (human) and a BUNCH of safety pins.... put shirt
on dog and pull it up tight over the back and pin.... all the way to his
waist. It isn't fully understood exactly why this works, but it is
thought that the pressure keeps certain nerve endings from firing
constantly.

Jumping up..... NOT. Since you apparently have a frequent flow of
visitors, this can be fairly easy to teach. When you are home, keep his
leash attached to his regular ID tag collar. When you know someone is
coming in, pick up the leash. Have him Sit. Inform the arriving
person(s) that he is learning manners, and that they are not to touch
him if he moves toward them, only if the leash stays "limp". They may
pet him as long as it's loose. But the kicker is.....! You are going
to sag the leash.... still holding onto the loop, so the bottom of the J
this forms touches the floor and your big fat foot is going to be on
that part of the leash.... the ball of your foot. Leash should not be
pulling downward on his neck. If he starts to pop up or forward, he
tugs the leash, which corrects him and prevents that lunge forward.
Every time he moves. Doesn't take long for him to understand that he
gets petted if he stays quietly in place. About three times he'll pop
up.... every time someone starts to pet him in greeting for about a week
or so, then it'll start to even out, but continue to do that for several
weeks. Keep him on leash until people are landed and settled, then take
him from one to the other to greet quietly. Then you land somewhere and
anchor him with a foot on the leash and ignore him. Company will come
to mean quiet time.

"Down" means "to lie down". "OFF" is "get off ... anything the dog is
on".... including jumping on people. With those two words, you don't
confuse the dog as much.

Yes, dogs are pack animals. Hounds are strongly pack oriented. This is
how they were housed and how they hunted. But we now know that even in
wolf packs, leadership changes according to what is going on. One wolf
may be the best tracker; others follow him. One may be the fastest and
best at bringing down a deer; s/he leads that dash. One is the Most
Respected, and is the overall leader.

You don't need or want to be "alpha" (you don't manage him by biting,
kicking, throwing him, I hope). You NEED to be Most Respected and Most
Trusted; the leader. Obedience training helps to develop both. So does
your ability to make fair rules at home and away, and to enforce them
Fairly, Firmly and Consistently.

This is the point where dog owners living with roomies hit the wall.
One just Loves the dog and oozes cuddles, no rules. One detests the
dog. One is fine, as long as the dog is "just there"... quiet, calm,
nice manners. Time to sit down with all roomies..... say over pizza and
beer..... and Negotiate their cooperation. Explain that their
cooperation will help make the dog into another good roomie. Faster.
Negotiate house rules that apply to the dog, and TEACH them the way
reinforce good behavior, and how to stop unwanted behavior. Yes,
yelling at a barking dog IS just encouraging more barking.... You may
even need to do this one roomie at a time.

Family? {picture a greyhaired old bag tugging at her hair and looking
up at the ceiling as she groans....) One person at a time. Start with
sister. Explain that cooing, petting, reassuring or happy tones tell
the dog that it's misbehavior is Right. Petting is a Reward for Good
Behavior. You will probably never make sense to your dad.... and it's
iffy with your mom. It's the baby powder rule.... unless you are a
doctor of medicine, anybody who ever powdered your tush when you were in
diapers is Not going to accept you as an expert on something they think
they know. Siblings can be dealt with. Cousins can be dealt with, Some
aunts and uncles. But not Mom and Dad. Unless they WANT to listen and
agree. (I have been training dogs and their owners professionally for
more years than you have probably been alive, if you have roomies,....
and training my own dogs and apprenticing for some years before that....
and my Mom asked me Thursday why I ever got a dog.......... {sigh} The
baby powder rule.) Once you get your dog organized into "civilized"
manners, they will all be Very impressed. So just keep plugging.


Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:56:31 -0800, Chris Harvey wrote:

My question is, how do I communicate with other members of "my pack" and
teach them all that I've learned in a productive manner? How can I get
them to cooperate with me in training my dog?

you got my compassion

if you can afford, get a place of your own
move out or give them notice to move out
(then you can choose "your pack" for desirable
traits)

and since they do what they do,
they will ruin your life shortly

"Jo Wolf" wrote in message
...
"Down" means "to lie down". "OFF" is "get off ... anything the dog is
on".... including jumping on people. With those two words, you don't
confuse the dog as much.

A common mistake and one I've made myself. In an emergency, I've
instincively said Down and then corrected myself and said Off .

Family? {picture a greyhaired old bag tugging at her hair and looking
up at the ceiling as she groans....)

I don't need to picture , I just look in the mirror. LOL
I used to have a garden ornament at the front door that said , Friends
welcome , Family by appointment !
Alison

Good advice from all of you. I never imagined the amount of research out there, and I'm intrigued about the new theories of dog dominance (or lack thereof).

Another question though. When I brought my dog home for Thanksgiving, my aunt said to me about how her dog would bark at knocking and visitors and how she had trained it out of him. She regretted it later, because she wanted the security of having a sort-of "guard dog."

I agree with this. I think it's important for my dog to be alert when a stranger comes knocking (although the jumping isn't necessary). In a small apartment like mine though, the idea is controversial especially with potentially grumpy neighbors who may like things quiet. My roommates yell, "No!" when Axel barks at a knock on the door or someone walking up the stairs.

Is it a good idea to train this out of him? Or should I reward and reinforce his protective behavior?

It's not protective behavior, per se. It's alerting behavior, and if
your "kid" is like many dogs I've lived near in apartments, they learn
to recognize the different footsteps and voices and if same simply pass
by routinely, they eventually ignore Those people. I used to chuckle
when the spaniel across the hall from me would bark (once or twice) when
a man's footsteps headed up the stairs to the second floor; one of the
gals up there had a new boyfriend.

I have taught my dogs that they may bark once or twice when someone
knocks or rings the doorbell, and to stop when I say "enough" or
"thank you". This I've done by keeping treats handy (pocket) and
offering the treat as I say the magic words.... "enough" is easy....
The dog stops to take the treat and I tell whoever is outside to wait a
moment..... and I snap on a leash that I have hanging beside the door or
over the doorknob before I open the door.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:20:18 -0800, Chris Harvey wrote:

My
roommates yell, "No!" when Axel barks at a knock on the door or someone
walking up the stairs.


make sure your roommates know that your dog is NOT deaf, so they have no
reason to yell, especially with potentially grumpy neighbors who may like
things quiet.

Is it a good idea to train this out of him? Or should I reward and
reinforce his protective behavior?

after bark or two call your dog and reward immediately(that means for
coming), then tell him to 'lay down' and reward again, do not go
immediately to open the door, stay calm, keep rewarding dog for being
calm too.Engage your roommates in this training, they can pretend being
strangers outside the door. Always call your dog and make him busy with
with you while someone at the door. Have your roommates do the same when
you returning home, try and make all comings and leavings 'non event'.

join this:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ClickerSolutions/

good luck

Chris Harvey wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Good advice from all of you. I never imagined the amount of research
out there, and I'm intrigued about the new theories of dog dominance
(or lack thereof).

Another question though. When I brought my dog home for Thanksgiving,
my aunt said to me about how her dog would bark at knocking and
visitors and how she had trained it out of him. She regretted it
later, because she wanted the security of having a sort-of "guard
dog."

I agree with this. I think it's important for my dog to be alert when
a stranger comes knocking (although the jumping isn't necessary). In
a small apartment like mine though, the idea is controversial
especially with potentially grumpy neighbors who may like things
quiet. My roommates yell, "No!" when Axel barks at a knock on the
door or someone walking up the stairs.

Is it a good idea to train this out of him? Or should I reward and
reinforce his protective behavior?

This depends on what you want and the conditions. The problem Don and
i have describing training is we seem to be sort of 'instinctive' about
it by now.

Your roomates are 'barking at the dog' which probably is not a very
effective way to teach the dog to not bark. Other than they are saying
'no' he may just be thinking this is acceptable pack behavior since
they are joining in.

Since we *want* our dog to alert in a stranger but not get out of
scale, when he does a proper alert he gets a pet and a 'good boy' and
immediately he stops as we 'know now there is a stranger visiting'
(more pets and hugs as he stops). Initially there was a stern voiced
'disapproving tone' 'Cash' and no pet on alerting on folks he should
not. Took almost no time for him to figure that one out.

LOL the one we have not stopped and do not worry about is the 'other
pitched bark of glee' when a special friend comes over. Heck, even my
*cat* comes running to see our friends when he does that!

--