I have to leave to keep from going off (loudly) in front of everyone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of dog shows, where handlers win more often then
the dogs they handle do....

Dogstar716
Come see Gunnars Life: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/index.html

"DogStar716" wrote in message
...
I have to leave to keep from going off (loudly) in front of everyone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of dog shows, where handlers win more often
then
the dogs they handle do....


DO you show in breed? Honestly I find a lot of the bitching abotu handlers
comes down to -
People not wanting to admit that the pro is a better handler and groomer and
might just have a better dog than they do.

I know it happens, but I realy think it is really easy to say it's because X
is a handler, rather than the judge didn't like my dog's dippy topline.

I have seen a handler present a dog that made the dog look like a different
animal (moving it at just the right speed, really getting it happy, as
opposed to the way it looked the day before..

Not that ANY of this excuses what happened in juniors. Little league parents
are horrible in All sports.


--
Melissa S. Frye
Skyrocket cockers www.mfrye.com/skyrocket/

DO you show in breed?

My best friend does. She shows her Berner. I am with her every step of the
way

..People not wanting to admit that the pro is a better handler and groomer and
might just have a better dog than they do.

Sorry, but in my area at least, handlers win most often, not dogs.

My friends Berner is awesome. He is owner handled and takes breed the majority
of the time. If you saw him, there is no doubt he's about as perfect as a
Berner can get. He took a Group 2 once, which is pretty amazing seeing as how
Berners are never usually pulled for group. Last show was a 4 dayer, he went
to Group every day. He was the talk of the town. There were only about 6
other Berners there.

At any rate, there were a few pissed off Berner people that day, one of them
decided to put a professional handler on her dog who was consistently losing to
my friends dog. The proffesional handler also handled the judges own dogs.
Same exact dog, different handler.

Guess who took Breed that day?

At any rate, I've seen it more often than not in my area. Totally inferior
dogs being put up because of the handler.

Dogstar716
Come see Gunnars Life: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/index.html

Heh...have you ever seen horse people?


"The Carrolls" wrote in message
...
(Copied & pasted ... didn't want to up my blood pressure typing it out
again!)

Ok. Good news first.

I have 3 girls, 2 9 year olds and 1 13 year old in my club. Two qualified
in
obedience and are now able to do NOVICE (instead of sub-nov) next year.

The bad news. (The Gazette, Dog World, and any other magazine out
there--esp
the English Cocker ones--is giong to get a nice letter about this one).

Junior showmanship. (We all see where this is going). I'm watching the
Champions class just because it's fun to watch. You know going in that the
girl who handles the English Cockers that her dad (Ken, if you know him,
and
you're more than welcome to tell him and anyone else about this) bred will
be winning the whole shebang. She did last year. Anywhoo...

She didn't. She got defeated by a girl with a Whippet. I called it when
they
walked in the ring (1st-3rd) but everyone figured Cocker-girl would win.
The
girl with the springer (also show-bred, but did compete in everything)
complained (to the judge during placements!) that the judge was "looking
at
the dogs, not the handler," and complained loudly. So Cocker-person's
I-dunno-what, probably not mom (too young, I think), maybe Dad's
girlfriend?
I dunno. Anyways, blonde chick, comes over in front of MY club and starts
bitching to herself. I ask what's wrong, thinking that she was the Whippet
person's mom and thought her daughter was getting dumped.

"We do 120 shows a year and she doesn't win?" Goes off for about 2
minutes.
I'm in shock. Whole big hissy-fit about the deal. See, Cocker girl is used
to first. She got LAST. (I was rejoycing privately, since they've done
this
to me before at AKC events. They think they "know" me since I've been in
4-H
as long as they have. *cough*bullshit*cough*) I thank judge (loudly) for
not
playing politics, that I'd made the same picks she did, and that she
shouldn't put up with the kids BS. Everyone at English-Cocker camp is
upset.
I have to leave to keep from going off (loudly) in front of everyone.
Though
I WANT to like you wouldn't believe--I wouldn't care if I could never set
foot in that building again if I could rewind and go off at the top of my
lungs at the camp of them.

Am CRYING on the way home I am so f'ing worked up about it. Call
ex-roommie
who's great for ranting to. No answer at all 3 numbers. Try my parents
(where I am now), no answer. Try Karimar. Leave a message to call back.

I swear, I want to go into English Cockers for the sole JOY of beating
them
WEEKLY from now until eternity. More importantly, though, NOW I want to
stick in Labs so I can vent all this pissed-offedness at the next person
to
make some stupid political hissy fit.

THIS IS 4-H. IF YOU CAN'T STAND LOSING, MAYBE YOU SHOULD STAY HOME AND
PLAY
2-PLAYER VIDEO GAMES WITH ONE CONTROLLER.

~Emily

KUCKOOOO!!!
CUCKOOOOO!!!!
ding!
ding!
Ding!

KUCKOOOO!!!
CUCKOOOOO!!!!
ding!
ding!
Ding!
INGD!!

ding!
ding!
KUCKOOOO!!!


The Carrolls wrote:
(Copied & pasted ... didn't want to up my blood pressure typing it out
again!)

Ok. Good news first.

I have 3 girls, 2 9 year olds and 1 13 year old in my club. Two qualified in
obedience and are now able to do NOVICE (instead of sub-nov) next year.

The bad news. (The Gazette, Dog World, and any other magazine out there--esp
the English Cocker ones--is giong to get a nice letter about this one).

Junior showmanship. (We all see where this is going). I'm watching the
Champions class just because it's fun to watch. You know going in that the
girl who handles the English Cockers that her dad (Ken, if you know him, and
you're more than welcome to tell him and anyone else about this) bred will
be winning the whole shebang. She did last year. Anywhoo...

She didn't. She got defeated by a girl with a Whippet. I called it when they
walked in the ring (1st-3rd) but everyone figured Cocker-girl would win. The
girl with the springer (also show-bred, but did compete in everything)
complained (to the judge during placements!) that the judge was "looking at
the dogs, not the handler," and complained loudly. So Cocker-person's
I-dunno-what, probably not mom (too young, I think), maybe Dad's girlfriend?
I dunno. Anyways, blonde chick, comes over in front of MY club and starts
bitching to herself. I ask what's wrong, thinking that she was the Whippet
person's mom and thought her daughter was getting dumped.

"We do 120 shows a year and she doesn't win?" Goes off for about 2 minutes.
I'm in shock. Whole big hissy-fit about the deal. See, Cocker girl is used
to first. She got LAST. (I was rejoycing privately, since they've done this
to me before at AKC events. They think they "know" me since I've been in 4-H
as long as they have. *cough*bullshit*cough*) I thank judge (loudly) for not
playing politics, that I'd made the same picks she did, and that she
shouldn't put up with the kids BS. Everyone at English-Cocker camp is upset.
I have to leave to keep from going off (loudly) in front of everyone. Though
I WANT to like you wouldn't believe--I wouldn't care if I could never set
foot in that building again if I could rewind and go off at the top of my
lungs at the camp of them.

Am CRYING on the way home I am so f'ing worked up about it. Call ex-roommie
who's great for ranting to. No answer at all 3 numbers. Try my parents
(where I am now), no answer. Try Karimar. Leave a message to call back.

I swear, I want to go into English Cockers for the sole JOY of beating them
WEEKLY from now until eternity. More importantly, though, NOW I want to
stick in Labs so I can vent all this pissed-offedness at the next person to
make some stupid political hissy fit.

THIS IS 4-H. IF YOU CAN'T STAND LOSING, MAYBE YOU SHOULD STAY HOME AND PLAY
2-PLAYER VIDEO GAMES WITH ONE CONTROLLER.

~Emily




--
mi.chael
li.ve...

..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg
..http://dogtv.com/hope_attacks.mpg



================================================== ======
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING

"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so i asked my vet for advice on
slowly adding weight to her. six months later i took harriet in for her
spring check-up and my vet was surprised that at how thin she still was."
--shelly couv.rette


"raises hand i've been told by three different vets that
harriet (53lbs) is *way* too skinny. we're still
vet-shopping, BTW."

--shelly couv.rette

"if you really can't resist
it when your dog pulls the "i'm starving!" routine G, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount of plain pureed pumpkin.
i would also suggest putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly rolled down--inside
trash cans in the closed laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."

--shelly couv.rette

"heh. i get the opposite response. people think that poor little
harriet is positively starved to death. i've actually had people stop
me in the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to fatten her up!"

--shelly couv.rette


"i think that may be part of the problem. who wants to go to a
vet who tells you you're hurting your .widdle precious? i
think the other part is that some vets really don't *realize*
that what they consider proper weight is fat. after having
been told by a couple of vets that my dogs are too thin, i've
got a dim view of vets on that topic."

--shelly couv.rette

"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad. she thinks that harriet is
awfully skinny, so feeding her table snax is okay. she tells me that
just a bite won't hurt."

--shelly couv.rette


NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY

NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
================================================== =====


There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve their dogs
out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.

shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale

Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about measuring
out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny measuring cup, or
counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin that she gives her dogs
when they give her the "I'm Starving" routine. When grandma tried to
give Hattie a snack, shelly probably went apeshit, because it was in
violation of her Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes
into her widdle precious' mouth.

shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser.

Heh...have you ever seen horse people?

Yep. Glad there's only 3 of them doing dogs too. (Our county is VERY
competitive in EVERYTHING.)

~Emily


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I don't show, nor will I ever. I think it is ludicrous to think that
one can judge the suitability of a dog for the purpose his breed was
created for, by looking, feeling, etc.

Case in point, The fastest dogs are Greyhounds, but many breeds
insist upon sloping toplines, "well laid back" shoulders and funny
angulation to the rear legs. The reason stated in the standard is for
freedome of movement. What a joke. The true animal athletes
(Greyhound) display none of these.

Another one. Heavy boned Boder collies winning shows (contrary to
the best working specimens.)

It is an eleitist game, pure and simple. I think it measures the
arrogance of the people who participate more than any kind of quality
to any dogs. And I think a good case can be made that it has been
destructive to some breeds,

Off my soapbox now. Opposing views considered, but the point had
better be logical, NOT ridicule.

SD

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:03:19 GMT, "The Carrolls"
wrote:

Am CRYING on the way home I am so f'ing worked up about it. Call ex-roommie
who's great for ranting to. No answer at all 3 numbers. Try my parents
(where I am now), no answer. Try Karimar. Leave a message to call back.

I swear, I want to go into English Cockers for the sole JOY of beating them
WEEKLY from now until eternity. More importantly, though, NOW I want to
stick in Labs so I can vent all this pissed-offedness at the next person to
make some stupid political hissy fit.

THIS IS 4-H. IF YOU CAN'T STAND LOSING, MAYBE YOU SHOULD STAY HOME AND PLAY
2-PLAYER VIDEO GAMES WITH ONE CONTROLLER.

Wow. You are one ANGRY person, Emily. I think you're in the wrong
element going to dog shows. You seem like someone who would be
better off leaving the kids with friendly relatives and moving to a
cabin in north Idaho.

Charlie

In article ,
Nomdeplume wrote:
Case in point, The fastest dogs are Greyhounds, but many breeds
insist upon sloping toplines, "well laid back" shoulders and funny
angulation to the rear legs. The reason stated in the standard is for
freedome of movement. What a joke. The true animal athletes
(Greyhound) display none of these.

I agree with your broader point (although I think you're
overstating it), but greyhounds have no endurance worth
speaking of and are built for sprinting. You don't know if
they'd hold up physically over longer distances. I tend to
think that they wouldn't. We do know that the fastest
mid-distance (30-300 miles) sleddogs do have slightly
sloping toplines and a rounded croup but not the extreme
tuckup or roached back that you see in greyhounds.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you don't understand how things are connected, the cause of
problems is solutions -- Amory Lovins

I don't show, nor will I ever. I think it is ludicrous to think that
one can judge the suitability of a dog for the purpose his breed was
created for, by looking, feeling, etc.

You can't, without putting that dog in the field (or whatever it does) and
working it. However, field trials create just as much of a caricature of my
breed (Labs) as conformation shows. How many times does a dog need to do a
triple blind at 500 or more yards in real hunting?

Case in point, The fastest dogs are Greyhounds, but many breeds
insist upon sloping toplines, "well laid back" shoulders and funny
angulation to the rear legs. The reason stated in the standard is for
freedome of movement. What a joke. The true animal athletes
(Greyhound) display none of these.

But are all dogs meant to be fast? Labs aren't meant to be able to run
quickly, they're meant to swim. Being built like a Greyhound would be a
great disadvantage to a dog meant to fetch ducks, geese, and occasionally
swans from near-frozen water. A greyhound would probably die from exposure
well before the first duck was shot, if it didn't sink.

Also, many breeds themselves don't insist on those requirements. Many of
the dogs being put in the ring don't MEET the standard. However, many
judges are judging breeds that they really know almost nothing about. If a
judge sees that 95% of the Labs put up in Michigan are fat, with poor
angulation, rottweiler heads, and cowhocks, and doesn't know much about the
breed to begin with, that's what they're going to put up too. How do you
pick a dog that meets the standard when you NEVER see one in the ring?

It is an eleitist game, pure and simple. I think it measures the
arrogance of the people who participate more than any kind of quality
to any dogs. And I think a good case can be made that it has been
destructive to some breeds,

I wouldn't call it an eletist's game. I want to do it because I like to do
it. It's a fun sport for me. Not all breeders are putting out dogs that
are caricatures of their breeds and winning. Some people are putting out
some really nice dogs that DO participate in other activities. The breeder
(my mentor) that my Lab puppy is coming from also breeds Gordon setters.
She's put JH titles on three of the four adult (well, two are semi-adult)
setters and the fourth has 3 of 4 legs. Her two oldest boys (Labs) both
have WC and I believe WCX but I'd have to check, which are working instinct
tests given by the LRC. In fact, a local club is putting one on next month
at her pond. These are both Canadian Champions as well. I intend to put
CanCh, UD (hopefully!) and several other titles on my puppy. I'd love to
put a hunting title on him, but...well...I don't know where to begin!

~Emily


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