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Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 14th 12, 09:09 PM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by DogBanter: Apr 2012
Posts: 2
Question Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

Sorry this is a little long, but I only included what I thought was important.

I have two yorkies, one is a 7 lb, 5 year old female (not fixed) the other is a 3lb 2 year old male(neutered). The male has been with us since birth as my mom is a breeder and we were living with her when he was born.

****This is starred because I feel it's important for you to know what I mean by "attacked", she mostly just stands over him growling, occasionally she has grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and shook him but she has NEVER hurt him or bitten at him in a harmful manner. It mostly seems 'corrective'. I still wish for it to stop, as she's LITERALLY scaring the pee and poo out of my male(he wets and poos himself EVERY time).

The female just recently started becoming aggressive with the male dog. I believe this can be contributed to a prey instinct and my own doing but am looking for other opinions and options.

The female is very prey aggressive, this started some time after she chased down her 2nd mouse in the back yard. (No, I did not condone this, she's very fast. She didn't get any diseases either, I had her checked and they both are up to date on shots.) I thought this could have been a factor at first because the male is so small.

I don't think it's a dominance issue because she submits to me as soon as she realizes she's in trouble (flops over and shows her tummy and neck). She also releases the male as soon as I touch her or say her name, I don't even have to pull them apart. He also submits to her quiet easily.

I think she thinks that I'M trying to be aggressive towards him and takes over for me. The first time, she was sitting in my lap and I accidentally pushed her off me and on to him. For the next 3 days she would randomly attack him. I corrected her by asserting my dominance immediately after each attack (I made her submit and kneeled over her, gently holding her throat). Then after 3 days of this everything just stopped and went back to normal.

Then I moved and the first 2 weeks were great, but my male dog took to my roommate and started sleeping with her. One morning (just like always) she put him in here, but tried to wake me up too (not a usual occurrence).

My female jumped off the bed and attacked him, I jumped up and corrected her. She backed off, but again she would randomly attack him for the rest of the day.

Then that night they seemed fine and they BOTH actually submitted to each other and were playing and I thought everything was fine again. Then we left my room, and I scared the male dog by accident on the way to the bathroom and again she attacked. He ran under my roommates bed and I corrected her.

They didn't see each other until this morning. They submitted to each other again but seem wary of each other this time. They are sleeping on the bed and the female seems to be trying to cozy up to him.

I took them for their daily walk (1 1/2 miles) and we just got back a few minutes ago. They seemed fine during the walk, both heeled and walked great. I have one of those portable water bottle/bowls and they drank at the same time without issue like normal. Now they are asleep next to each other, and seem fine.

Still, I want to nip this in the bud before it becomes a common or frequent issue. Does anyone have any better idea as to what's going on in my females head and what I need to do to correct it? Thanks!!
  #2  
Old April 15th 12, 09:27 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:09:48 +0000, Kaygie0610
wrote:

[...]
I think she thinks that I'M trying to be aggressive towards him and
takes over for me. The first time, she was sitting in my lap and I
accidentally pushed her off me and on to him. For the next 3 days she
would randomly attack him. I corrected her by asserting my dominance
immediately after each attack (I made her submit and kneeled over her,
gently holding her throat). Then after 3 days of this everything just
stopped and went back to normal.


It usually pays to start at the beginning - and this appears to be the
beginning of your "problem." You brushed her off (how exactly does one
do that, anyway?), on to him, and she may have somehow gotten the idea
that he attacked her. Which has made her fear aggressive. Of course,
she's probably always been fear aggressive, but this incident
highlighted (and maybe even triggered) it.

Why are you making her "submit"? Submit to what, exactly? Why would
you need to hold her throat? This sounds like awfully aggressive
behavior on your part, Kaygie, and she may be taking it out on your
little guy. I.e., mis-directed aggression. Often when he's around (for
one reason or another) she's getting punished for something, or
associates his presence with being attacked, so she pulls the trigger
first (the very definition of fear aggression).

I think your behavior is somehow triggering her aggression towards
him.

Then I moved and the first 2 weeks were great, but my male dog took to
my roommate and started sleeping with her. One morning (just like
always) she put him in here, but tried to wake me up too (not a usual
occurrence).

My female jumped off the bed and attacked him, I jumped up and corrected
her. She backed off, but again she would randomly attack him for the
rest of the day.


See? You're always punishing her in his presence. A + B = C.

Then that night they seemed fine and they BOTH actually submitted to
each other and were playing and I thought everything was fine again.
Then we left my room, and I scared the male dog by accident on the way
to the bathroom and again she attacked. He ran under my roommates bed
and I corrected her.

They didn't see each other until this morning. They submitted to each
other again but seem wary of each other this time. They are sleeping on
the bed and the female seems to be trying to cozy up to him.

I took them for their daily walk (1 1/2 miles) and we just got back a
few minutes ago. They seemed fine during the walk, both heeled and
walked great. I have one of those portable water bottle/bowls and they
drank at the same time without issue like normal. Now they are asleep
next to each other, and seem fine.

Still, I want to nip this in the bud before it becomes a common or
frequent issue. Does anyone have any better idea as to what's going on
in my females head and what I need to do to correct it? Thanks!!


If I were you, I'd hold off on all the "punishment," "dominance,"
"throat-holding," etc., and just let them work it out by themselves,
matter-of-factly. Don't interfere unless you really think there's a
possibility of real damage being done. They may just need more time to
get used to each other.

RELAX. Go with the flow.

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.



--
Dogman
  #3  
Old April 16th 12, 04:03 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 479
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

Oy vey! The old "alpha roll" just keeps surfacing again in slight
variations..... NOT a good move. More likely to contribute to the
problem than to solve it.

As my boss often says, if there isn't any blood, let the dogs work it
out and 9 times out of 10 you'll get the results you need.

Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia, USA

  #4  
Old April 16th 12, 08:10 AM
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by DogBanter: Apr 2012
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
It usually pays to start at the beginning - and this appears to be the
beginning of your "problem." You brushed her off (how exactly does one
do that, anyway?)
She was sitting in my lap and I stood up. She Lounged off of me and onto him a pretty far distance. There is no way she thought he was attacking her, it was a clear attack on him.

Quote:
Why are you making her "submit"? Submit to what, exactly? Why would you need to hold her throat? This sounds like awfully aggressive
behavior on your part, Kaygie, and she may be taking it out on your
little guy. I.e., mis-directed aggression. Often when he's around (for
one reason or another) she's getting punished for something, or
associates his presence with being attacked, so she pulls the trigger
first (the very definition of fear aggression).
I'm making her submit to me, because I am the pack alpha. Dog's have to have guidance and chain of command. It is awfully aggressive on my part and it's meant to be. Like I stated a moment ago, I am the alpha of my pack. She endangered the pack and broke the chain of command, I corrected her. I did not hurt her in any way. She is not often punished when he is around, she is punished when she steps out of line.

Quote:
If I were you, I'd hold off on all the "punishment," "dominance,"
"throat-holding," etc., and just let them work it out by themselves,
matter-of-factly. Don't interfere unless you really think there's a
possibility of real damage being done. They may just need more time to
get used to each other.RELAX. Go with the flow.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I'm sorry, but have you taken a knock to the head recently? Do you know anything at all about dogs? I appreciate your opinion and I thank you for taking the time to reply to me, but that it the stupidest advice ever. The female dog is a 7lb muscle machine, and the male is barely 3lbs and doesn't even come up to her shoulders. Did you miss the part where he's so scared he goes to the bathroom all over himself? If I let them work it out A) that tells the female that she is pack leader and can do whatever the heck she wants and B) she could very well get carried away and severely hurt - if not kill - him.


With that said, I'd just like to state that while I am willing to say that I may have some fault in the issue I do not believe it has anything to do with taking my position as pack Alpha seriously. Also she is NOT fear aggressive, there are three other animals (2 female dogs and 1 female cat) that she honestly couldn't care less about and all of them have been present for the more recent events. Thanks again, and I don't mean for this to sound rude (honestly!!!) I just don't think you know very much about dogs if you had to ask why I was dominating her in the first place. :/ Sorry, that still sounds rude but I'm just being honest. Still, thanks for being the only person to respond so far.

Xx Kaygie
  #5  
Old April 16th 12, 07:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Posts: 581
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?


"Kaygie0610" wrote in message
...

I'm making her submit to me, because I am the pack alpha. Dog's have to

have guidance and chain of command. It is awfully aggressive on my part
and it's meant to be. Like I stated a moment ago, I am the alpha of my
pack. She endangered the pack and broke the chain of command, I
corrected her. I did not hurt her in any way. She is not often punished
when he is around, she is punished when she steps out of line.


Dogs don't have a strict heirarchy, nor do wolves in fact.
You've asked for help because what you are doing isn't working and you'll
make more progressive if you stop punishing your dog.

Theres link to more info about dominance and dogs on this website
http://petinfolinks.webs.com/dominancecontroversy.htm


Also more info on Victoria Stilwells forum.
http://positively.com/forum/index.php


  #6  
Old April 16th 12, 08:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:10:27 +0000, Kaygie0610
wrote:

[...]
I'm making her submit to me, because I am the pack alpha.[...] It is awfully aggressive on my part
and it's meant to be. Like I stated a moment ago, I am the alpha of my
pack. She endangered the pack and broke the chain of command


Okay, lady, you know best. Keep doing what you're doing.

And let us know how that works out for you, 'kay?

Sigh.

--
Dogman
  #7  
Old April 16th 12, 08:15 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,054
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:03:54 -0400, (Jo Wolf) wrote:


As my boss often says, if there isn't any blood, let the dogs work it
out and 9 times out of 10 you'll get the results you need.


You bet.

--
Dogman
  #8  
Old April 16th 12, 08:16 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Posts: 281
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 07:10:27 +0000, Kaygie0610 wrote:

A) that tells the female that she is pack leader and can do whatever the
heck she wants and


she is coz you are too stupid to be one
  #9  
Old April 17th 12, 03:44 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Posts: 9
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

Kaygie0610 wrote:
She was sitting in my lap and I stood up. She Lounged off of me and
onto him a pretty far distance. There is no way she thought he was
attacking her, it was a clear attack on him.

....
I'm making her submit to me, because I am the pack alpha. Dog's have
to have guidance and chain of command.


You control access to food, shelter, warmth, safety, and pretty much
every other essential resource. Exactly what do you think you have to
prove?

If you're regularly making a big deal out of minor infractions, of
course she's learned that that's the behavior you expect. Not rocket
science here - even the dog has it figured out.

The female dog is a 7lb muscle machine, and the male is barely
3lbs and doesn't even come up to her shoulders.


Size difference (other than the humans) here is 12.5 lbs to 65 lbs. I
haven't gone out of my way to demonstrate dominance over any of 'em.
Why would I? They know who's got the big crinkly brain and opposable
thumbs.

If I let them work it out A) that tells the female that she is pack
leader


Nonsense. A decent pack leader takes no notice of the insignificant
doings of underlings. A super pack leader will even refuse to
acknowledge direct challenges. Nothing deflates a wannabe quite so much
as being ignored, just as nothing destabilizes a pack quicker than an
erratic, insecure alpha.

... B) she could very well get
carried away and severely hurt - if not kill - him.


Yep, that would be one reason to interfere. You said you can stop her
with a word. Do it. She stops, life continues. No need to make a huge
deal out of it.

...I do not believe it has anything
to do with taking my position as pack Alpha seriously.


Other than as a poor example to the other members of your pack, you
mean?

Also she is NOT fear aggressive,


No, she's resource guarding, redirecting, and learning from your
example.

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo:
The Right Reverand Sir Edgar "Lucky" Pan-Waffles (ret.);
ANZ Pas de Duke, RN; ANZ Wizard's Sassenan, RN, CGC
and the temporary (hah!) Herr Spatz
  #10  
Old April 22nd 12, 06:05 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Posts: 999
Default Female Dog Aggressive toward Male dog?

Kaygie0610 wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:


It usually pays to start at the beginning - and this appears to be
the beginning of your "problem." You brushed her off (how exactly
does one do that, anyway?)


She was sitting in my lap and I stood up. She Lounged off of me and
onto him a pretty far distance. There is no way she thought he was
attacking her, it was a clear attack on him.

Why are you making her "submit"? Submit to what, exactly? Why
would you need to hold her throat? This sounds like awfully
aggressive behavior on your part, Kaygie, and she may be taking it
out on your little guy. I.e., mis-directed aggression. Often when
he's around (for one reason or another) she's getting punished for
something, or associates his presence with being attacked, so she
pulls the trigger first (the very definition of fear aggression).


I'm making her submit to me, because I am the pack alpha. Dog's have
to have guidance and chain of command. It is awfully aggressive on my
part and it's meant to be. Like I stated a moment ago, I am the alpha
of my pack. She endangered the pack and broke the chain of command, I
corrected her. I did not hurt her in any way. She is not often
punished when he is around, she is punished when she steps out of
line.

If I were you, I'd hold off on all the "punishment," "dominance,"
"throat-holding," etc., and just let them work it out by themselves,
matter-of-factly. Don't interfere unless you really think there's a
possibility of real damage being done. They may just need more time
to get used to each other.RELAX. Go with the flow.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


I'm sorry, but have you taken a knock to the head recently? Do you
know anything at all about dogs? I appreciate your opinion and I
thank you for taking the time to reply to me, but that it the
stupidest advice ever. The female dog is a 7lb muscle machine, and
the male is barely 3lbs and doesn't even come up to her shoulders.
Did you miss the part where he's so scared he goes to the bathroom
all over himself? If I let them work it out A) that tells the female
that she is pack leader and can do whatever the heck she wants and B)
she could very well get carried away and severely hurt - if not kill
- him.


With that said, I'd just like to state that while I am willing to say
that I may have some fault in the issue I do not believe it has
anything to do with taking my position as pack Alpha seriously. Also
she is NOT fear aggressive, there are three other animals (2 female
dogs and 1 female cat) that she honestly couldn't care less about and
all of them have been present for the more recent events. Thanks
again, and I don't mean for this to sound rude (honestly!!!) I just
don't think you know very much about dogs if you had to ask why I was
dominating her in the first place. :/ Sorry, that still sounds rude
but I'm just being honest. Still, thanks for being the only person
to respond so far.

Xx Kaygie


Umm, Kaygie, you are talking in a group where a significant portion are
professional dog trainers and they aren't dealing with the 7 lb to 3 lb
set. More the 60-200 lb set.

I'm not one of the professionals here but even I can see you are
getting overly concerned about 'alpha' and all that.

1) you do not determine which of your dogs is alpha to the other. That
is for them to settle. All you do is mess them up if you try. In fact,
i suspect a simple nipping early on would have solved this but now you
may have *created* a possibly dangerous situation to the smaller dog.

2) I am 'alpha' to my dogs but i do not lord it over them or get into
throat holding and stuff like that. It's not needed and will freak out
a dog.

If one of the dogs is new to your home, you are doing it all wrong on
introductions. If you do not grasp the group dynamics of a multi-dog
house, then you need to have fewer dogs.


--

 




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