Alison Smiley Perera wrote:

Heinz IVD? Or Eukanuba Veterinary Diet? Canned or dry?

I just looked at the bag. Don't know why I thought it was Iam's. It's
Innovative Veterinary Diet (IVD). Dry.

I hope you'll get a chance soon to sit down with the vet and have a good
discussion about this little feller's long-term care and prognosis.
Unless he's on canned food (which is much more species-appropriate than
dry and might mean he doesn't *need* to drink) a kidney cat needs water
and any cat but especially a kidney cat should have peed after what, two
or three nights?

Two nights now.

He's eating a little bit, but doesn't seem to be drinking. I've examined his
tummy to see if his bladder is hard or there seems to be any pain response. He
likes it. He did vomit once. It was all food.

He's really stressed. He is still hiding behind the couch. Meeting one dog at
a time didn't bother him too much, but he freaks when they all bark. I have a
baby gate up now (I can't keep him in there with the door closed - there's no
a/c and this is Florida), and the only time he'll come out is when the dogs are
outside and I go in the room. I think I can move the baby-gate back to the
hallway, and so he and the dogs won't be able to see each other for a while.
(Just thought of that idea. :}

The dogs are really being good. The only time they go to his area of the house
is when I'm there. They don't obsess over him. But if he meows or pokes his
head out, they bark excitedly.

Under any other circumstances, I would have already had him out to the vet.
But he's so stressed already, and he trusts me. I really think it's a bad time
to stuff him in a carry-case and take him out if it can be avoided. He may not
come out from behind the couch at all if I do that to him.

Having been in a small cage for so long, I'm wondering if he'll settle for
living the way he is and if I'll have to do something to coerce him to join the
family. I'm not all that savvy on cats, so I'd appreciate any advice.

I am worried about him medically, and almost reluctant to call his vet because
he's going to say what they all say - bring him in. But if his problem is
stress and not medical, that's the worst thing I could do to him.

Help!

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Last updated June 27 at 10:00 a.m.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Leah wrote:

He's eating a little bit, but doesn't seem to be drinking.
I've examined his tummy to see if his bladder is hard or
there seems to be any pain response. He likes it. He did
vomit once. It was all food.

wet or dry? it makes a *huge* difference.

Under any other circumstances, I would have already had him
out to the vet. But he's so stressed already, and he trusts
me. I really think it's a bad time to stuff him in a
carry-case and take him out if it can be avoided. He may not
come out from behind the couch at all if I do that to him.

there are worse things. it's impossible for anyone here to
tell if the cat is in need of immediate treatment, or if he's
just having a rough adjustment. you really need to get him to
the vet ASAP. things can go downhill *VERY* quickly with
cats.

I am worried about him medically, and almost reluctant to
call his vet because he's going to say what they all say -
bring him in. But if his problem is stress and not medical,
that's the worst thing I could do to him.

no, the worst thing you can do is nothing. if you aren't
willing to take him to the vet, please return him to the
rescue group so that they can take him to the vet.

--
shelly (foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

I am worried about him medically, and almost reluctant to call his vet
because
he's going to say what they all say - bring him in. But if his problem is
stress and not medical, that's the worst thing I could do to him.

I had a cat with chronic kidney failure. The stress of his visiting the vet
is minimal compared to the stress you should be feeling about a cat with
kidney problems who has not peed in over two days.

Cats are much better than dogs at hiding pain and disease. You should have
gotten a good briefing from the rescue group on how to tell when this cat
needs vet care (like how to tell if he's dehydrated), especially since
you're not familiar with cats. You should approach them with just such a
conversation in mind.

At least call the vet. Good luck.

Cate

In article ,
URK-OFF (Leah) wrote:

Under any other circumstances, I would have already had him out to the vet.
But he's so stressed already, and he trusts me. I really think it's a bad
time
to stuff him in a carry-case and take him out if it can be avoided. He may
not
come out from behind the couch at all if I do that to him.

Having been in a small cage for so long, I'm wondering if he'll settle for
living the way he is and if I'll have to do something to coerce him to join
the
family. I'm not all that savvy on cats, so I'd appreciate any advice.

I am worried about him medically, and almost reluctant to call his vet
because
he's going to say what they all say - bring him in. But if his problem is
stress and not medical, that's the worst thing I could do to him.

Help!

OK. First, you need to call the vet. Since you know going in that this
guy is special needs, at the very very least you MUST have a sit down,
probably sans cat, and discuss what they know about his problem and how
you AND THEY are going to handle it.

Second, a vomiting cat with kidney problems that's not peeing is
potentially a very sick cat. You need to get the low-down on this.

As for perceived stress...does he seek low places or high places when
he's startled? If the former, make sure he has a nice dark hidey hole
that's all his, like a crate or one of those kitty-condos. If the
latter, get him a carpeted post with a shelf out of doggy reach. He
needs to have his own place. I think that barking dogs are probably more
unnerving than obsess-o-dogs as far as cats are concerned. You might try
double-baby-gating to limit the dog/cat contact. Give Tav one thing at a
time to get used to: new home and owner before doggy friends!

Spend one-on-one time with him as much as possible. Talk to him, read
him a book. When I adopted Hektor, he and his mom and sister stayed
in the bathroom for starters. (A good way to confine him close to his
litterbox and minimize cleanup if he doesn't hit it the first few times,
btw.) I hung out in there with them for hours, letting them come to me
for attention and not imposing myself on them.

Anyway, going to the vet doesn't have to be stressful. Cats really cue
off of their owners so if you're cool as a cucumber he'll at least be
calmer. When I have to take my boys in, the crates come out way ahead of
time, like a day or more if possible. Treats encourage them to explore
it. When it's time to go, you bring the *cat* to the *crate.* (Doing it
the other way tips the kitty off to run and hide!) Tip the crate on its
end so the opening is up. Drop kitty butt first into the crate. Close
the door quietly and tip the crate to the ground slowly. Voila,
stress-free crating.

Depending on the cat, let him look out or let him look at you during the
car ride.

Avoid letting any dogs at home or in the waiting room sniff him in the
crate, he'll feel cornered.

In the exam room, try to let him come out on his own time. If totally
necessary, take the top of the crate and lift him out. Pulling on him or
tipping the crate will increase the tension.

Vets do understand about cats and the stress of clinic visits, though.
They could easily just tell you what to keep an eye out for based on his
history.

Good luck to you both. Tav is a lucky kitty, and you're lucky too for
getting to know the pleasures and intricacies of the feline mind!
-Alison in OH

Alison Smiley Perera wrote:
As for perceived stress...does he seek low places or high places when
he's startled? If the former, make sure he has a nice dark hidey hole
that's all his, like a crate or one of those kitty-condos. If the
latter, get him a carpeted post with a shelf out of doggy reach. He
needs to have his own place.

Thanks! I was going to spend a lot of money on a tall kitty condo, thinking I
could put his dish on the top of it so the dogs couldn't mess with it. But he
definitely chooses tight little dark spaces on the ground. I wouldn't have
even thought to notice the preference. I'll know better know what to look for
for his hidey-space now. (And enclosed kitty beds and short condos are MUCH
cheaper. :}

I've moved the gate back so that he has two rooms and a hall. However, he
hasn't even explored his own little room. There's an open closet there full of
my clothes. You'd think he'd want to check it out. At least he's in there
with my scent. Is that important to a cat, like it is to a dog?

I think that barking dogs are probably more
unnerving than obsess-o-dogs as far as cats are concerned. You might try
double-baby-gating to limit the dog/cat contact. Give Tav one thing at a
time to get used to: new home and owner before doggy friends!

I was told he was fine with dogs. The only thing I can think of is the dogs he
lived with didn't bark.

Spend one-on-one time with him as much as possible. Talk to him, read
him a book.

He loves petting, so I go in often (every time the dogs go out, which is
several times a day/night) and spend time cuddling with him. He likes to
nuzzle close. Very sweet boy. He even lets me play with his feet and doesn't
use his claws. I may even be able to clip them myself, he's so cool about it.
(Not anytime soon, though - and he doesn't need it.)

If the dogs are in the house and I go to his room and call him, he says "hello"
but doesn't come out. He answers to "Hi, Tav!"

Anyway, going to the vet doesn't have to be stressful. Cats really cue
off of their owners so if you're cool as a cucumber he'll at least be
calmer. When I have to take my boys in, the crates come out way ahead of
time, like a day or more if possible. Treats encourage them to explore
it. When it's time to go, you bring the *cat* to the *crate.* (Doing it
the other way tips the kitty off to run and hide!) Tip the crate on its
end so the opening is up. Drop kitty butt first into the crate. Close
the door quietly and tip the crate to the ground slowly. Voila,
stress-free crating.

The most stressful thing for him so far seemed to be putting him in the crate
to take him home. That's pretty much what I did (other than bring the crate
out ahead of time), and he struggled against being picked up. I had been
petting him and he was responding really well, but as soon as I went to lift
him into the crate he got frantic. I'm surprised he didn't scratch me. He
cried all the way home. That's why I really, really hope I don't have to do it
to him again right now.

Depending on the cat, let him look out or let him look at you during the
car ride.

For the future, I'm going to get him a harness and see if he will walk on a
leash. It might be easier for him.

I was kicking myself in the head for adopting him when I brought him home, but
I'm getting steadily more committed to him. He may not have been what I was
looking for physically (either a black cat or a Siamese, and female), but he's
exactly what I want in personality. That is, if I can get him to co-exist with
the girls.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life:
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Last updated June 27 at 10:00 a.m.

In article ,
URK-OFF (Leah) wrote:

Alison Smiley Perera wrote:
As for perceived stress...does he seek low places or high places when
he's startled? If the former, make sure he has a nice dark hidey hole
that's all his, like a crate or one of those kitty-condos. If the
latter, get him a carpeted post with a shelf out of doggy reach. He
needs to have his own place.

Thanks! I was going to spend a lot of money on a tall kitty condo, thinking
I
could put his dish on the top of it so the dogs couldn't mess with it. But
he
definitely chooses tight little dark spaces on the ground. I wouldn't have
even thought to notice the preference. I'll know better know what to look
for
for his hidey-space now. (And enclosed kitty beds and short condos are MUCH
cheaper. :}

Heheh. I have an "up" kitty and a "down" kitty. For example, when the
vacuum cleaner comes out Hektor dives *under* the bed while Otis
balances precariously *on top* of the head board. From what I gather,
these kinds of preferences are pretty solid. It's one of those thing you
learn from your kitty.

I've moved the gate back so that he has two rooms and a hall. However, he
hasn't even explored his own little room. There's an open closet there full
of
my clothes. You'd think he'd want to check it out. At least he's in there
with my scent. Is that important to a cat, like it is to a dog?

As far as I'm concerned, yeah. He's definitely getting acclimated to you
just by being surrounded by your "presence". Again, spending time near
him and letting him hear your voice will be other soothing things. And
if he isn't exploring his room, he doesn't need another room till he
has. He needs to have a secure, well-established place in order to lay
the groundwork for further exploration.

I think that barking dogs are probably more
unnerving than obsess-o-dogs as far as cats are concerned. You might try
double-baby-gating to limit the dog/cat contact. Give Tav one thing at a
time to get used to: new home and owner before doggy friends!

I was told he was fine with dogs. The only thing I can think of is the dogs
he
lived with didn't bark.

I had to introduce Otis, who was so-so with dogs, to my goofy German
Shepherd. It didn't take him long before he was OK with her in the same
room, or even play-bow-jumping at him. (He'd sit on the back of the
couch and slap her for being so ill-mannered.) But to this day, if she
gets excited enough in all this play-soliciting to say "Woo-woo!!" at
him, he's liable to take off as fast as his kitty legs will take him,
eyes wide. "What is that thing?"

Spend one-on-one time with him as much as possible. Talk to him, read
him a book.

He loves petting, so I go in often (every time the dogs go out, which is
several times a day/night) and spend time cuddling with him. He likes to
nuzzle close. Very sweet boy. He even lets me play with his feet and
doesn't
use his claws. I may even be able to clip them myself, he's so cool about
it.
(Not anytime soon, though - and he doesn't need it.)

Aww, what a good boy! It's nice when they don't get the fear of
paw-handling ingrained in them early.

Anyway, going to the vet doesn't have to be stressful. Cats really cue
off of their owners so if you're cool as a cucumber he'll at least be
calmer. When I have to take my boys in, the crates come out way ahead of
time, like a day or more if possible. Treats encourage them to explore
it. When it's time to go, you bring the *cat* to the *crate.* (Doing it
the other way tips the kitty off to run and hide!) Tip the crate on its
end so the opening is up. Drop kitty butt first into the crate. Close
the door quietly and tip the crate to the ground slowly. Voila,
stress-free crating.

The most stressful thing for him so far seemed to be putting him in the crate
to take him home. That's pretty much what I did (other than bring the crate
out ahead of time), and he struggled against being picked up. I had been
petting him and he was responding really well, but as soon as I went to lift
him into the crate he got frantic. I'm surprised he didn't scratch me. He
cried all the way home. That's why I really, really hope I don't have to do
it
to him again right now.

I imagine the situation might have been a little tense to start with
when you brought him home. Try not to let that experience prevent you
from being comfortable crating your cat. I transported my boys 2600
miles last summer. It took about five days. Every night we let them out
in a hotel room. Every morning we had to load them back into the
kennels. No desensitization or element of surprise there, they *knew*
what was coming! Yeah, they twisted and wriggled, and by the end of the
trip it took two people but Pop! they were in the crate and that was
that. Just eeevil glares. Otis cries non-stop when he's in the car,
in or out of the crate. I've held him on my lap and he stands with his
paws on the edge of the window, gazing curiously at the world, and
saying "Miao. Miao. Mii-ao. Miao." It sounds utterly pitiful! The goober.

Depending on the cat, let him look out or let him look at you during the
car ride.

For the future, I'm going to get him a harness and see if he will walk on a
leash. It might be easier for him.

For cats that will walk on a leash it's loads of fun. Otis is an
excellent leash-walker. But if you're the driver and you don't have a
helper, keep the kitty in a carrier for everyone's safety. Not to
mention, if he's a bit tense in the waiting room having an enclosed
hidey hole will help.

I was kicking myself in the head for adopting him when I brought him home,
but
I'm getting steadily more committed to him. He may not have been what I was
looking for physically (either a black cat or a Siamese, and female), but
he's
exactly what I want in personality. That is, if I can get him to co-exist
with
the girls.

My husband won't let me have a girl cat. He says that boy cats are the
only ones with a cuddly personality. As for getting him used to the
dogs, it will come. If he's not hissing, spitting, growing to three
times his size with a bottle-brush tail at the first sight or smell of
canine, then it's not hopeless. And even if that were his reaction it
wouldn't be hopeless. Just be patient with everybody.

Keep up the updates! I know it's OT to the group but I think folks will
understand.
-Alison in OH

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...

The most stressful thing for him so far seemed to be putting him in the
crate
to take him home. That's pretty much what I did (other than bring the
crate
out ahead of time), and he struggled against being picked up. I had been
petting him and he was responding really well, but as soon as I went to
lift
him into the crate he got frantic. I'm surprised he didn't scratch me.
He
cried all the way home.

This is totally normal behavior for a cat. Any cat, even a healthy one, who
*didn't* act this way upon being put into a carrier, would have to turn in
her cat union card. It's just What They Do.

Cate

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:05:28 -0400, "Cate" wrote

This is totally normal behavior for a cat. Any cat, even a healthy one, who
*didn't* act this way upon being put into a carrier, would have to turn in
her cat union card. It's just What They Do.

heh. meet Pandora. but then again, it's been pretty well established
that she's Unnatural.

--
shelly (foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

I am the God of Hellfire.
-- Melora (Rasputina)

On 28 Jul 2003 18:46:37 GMT, URK-OFF (Leah) wrote:

That's why I really, really hope I don't have to do it
to him again right now.

are you even going to *call* the vet?

--
shelly (foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

Read read read read read read read everything you can read.
-- Violent Femmes, "Lack of Knowledge"

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:32:12 -0400,"Cate"
stitched with finest floss on pure irish linen:

Cats are much better than dogs at hiding pain and disease. You should have
gotten a good briefing from the rescue group on how to tell when this cat
needs vet care (like how to tell if he's dehydrated), especially since
you're not familiar with cats. You should approach them with just such a
conversation in mind.

Amen to that! A cat can literally be at deaths door and just act "a
bit under the weather". Cats, being predators, can't afford to show
signs of illness, so they don't until they are really sick. With
Josephine, I knew that she needed to get to the vet fast if the
pattern of her coat became the slightest bit blurry looking, even if
she was acting fine otherwise, because it meant she was having bladder
stones again.
BTW, one way to tell if a cat is dehydrated is to gently pull some
skin up on the back- if it does not immediately go back down, the cat
is dry.
---
Ruth Mays
Beautiful Downtown Cinnaminson

It's important to keep an open mind,
But not so open that your brains fall out.