this is an odd situation - any suggestions?

Although I've had dogs all my life I've never had a puppy - and never
a male (though I doubt that matters here) so I've never really had to
housebreak before.

I have two adult dogs (5 yr lab/chow and 14 yr chow/heinz 57) who are
NOT crate trained.

I just adopted a pound puppy - a 3 month old lab/shep male who was
pretty malnurished.

SO

I'm crate training him (for the first time) at least until he is house
broken and out of danger of his sisters eating all his food. If he
seems to like it, I may buy him a larger crate when he outgrows this
one or may keep him with his sisters in the open in our small laundry
room.

For a three month old puppy he is doing VERY well. He knows he is
supposed to eliminate when he goes outside (we have a large yard and
rarely walk) and can make it through the night (6 hours) most nights
with very rare mistakes. He has even *told* us once or twice when he
needs to go outside.

Here's the odd part:

we have a TV room upstairs in a loft. We block the exit stairs with a
pet gate and the whole *family* gathers in the evening to play (there
are lots of chew toys) and be fussed over while we watch TV. Even
after taking him outside seconds before we go upstairs he invariably,
after about 30 minutes to an hour eliminates on the rug. Not in the
same place every time. It always varies.
When we do this we immediately take him downstairs and put him in his
crate for time-out for an hour or so. And he cries.

I really think he is trying hard so I hate to, as it were, set him up
for failure night after night. At the same time, the lives of the
adult dogs have already seen a lot of upheaval since their brother
arrived so I hate to change what is a comfortable routine for them.

Short of taking the puppy outside every half hour on the half hour or
bringing the crate upstairs with us every night what might I try?

Apart from this I think he's doing remarkably well for a 3 month old -
especially one who had been a stray and at the humane society for a
while before we got him.

Thanks in advance.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Harlett O'Dowd wrote:

we have a TV room upstairs in a loft. We block the exit
stairs with a pet gate and the whole *family* gathers in the
evening to play (there are lots of chew toys) and be fussed
over while we watch TV. Even after taking him outside
seconds before we go upstairs he invariably, after about 30
minutes to an hour eliminates on the rug. Not in the same
place every time. It always varies. When we do this we
immediately take him downstairs and put him in his crate for
time-out for an hour or so. And he cries.

with the caveat that it's not possible to be certain without
directly witnessing the situation, this sounds *completely*
normal to me. puppies need to eliminate more frequently when
they're being active, so when your puppy is awake and playing,
you'll need to take him outside more often. i'd suggest every
25-30 minutes to start with, since it sounds like he can
reasonably hold it for that long when he's playing. as he
gets older and his bladder control improves, you can increase
and then phase out the extra potty breaks.

--
shelly (foul wench) and elliott and harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette

shelly wrote in message marble.net...
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Harlett O'Dowd wrote:

we have a TV room upstairs in a loft. We block the exit
stairs with a pet gate and the whole *family* gathers in the
evening to play (there are lots of chew toys) and be fussed
over while we watch TV. Even after taking him outside
seconds before we go upstairs he invariably, after about 30
minutes to an hour eliminates on the rug. Not in the same
place every time. It always varies. When we do this we
immediately take him downstairs and put him in his crate for
time-out for an hour or so. And he cries.

with the caveat that it's not possible to be certain without
directly witnessing the situation, this sounds *completely*
normal to me. puppies need to eliminate more frequently when
they're being active, so when your puppy is awake and playing,
you'll need to take him outside more often. i'd suggest every
25-30 minutes to start with, since it sounds like he can
reasonably hold it for that long when he's playing. as he
gets older and his bladder control improves, you can increase
and then phase out the extra potty breaks.

Thanks. Tried it last night and it worked. Once he even *told* me he
needed to go.

What's odd is that when he's downstairs and just as active he can
easily go an hour or even two without a break.