"Robin Nuttall" wrote in
news:I8MZa.121602$YN5.84474@sccrnsc01:

The conclusion is that dogs know instinctively, from birth, to a) look
to humans for assistance, and b) look into human FACES. Since wolves
totally lack this instinct, it's something which must be genetically
coded into the domestic dog, and points to a symbiosis much deeper
than we ever thought it was. So dog willingness to work with human and
knowledge of human facial expression as important for communication
may actually be hard wired.


I remember reading about a study similar to this involving adult and
puppy dogs and wolves with humans. They would put meat or something tasty
in a box, and have another empty box beside it, with the human in
between. Without the human giving a deliberate signal of any kind, dogs
(both adult and puppy) managed to read the body language and get the food
i nthe box much better than the wolves. Puppy dogs did better than adult
wolves in finding the food.

--
*******************************************
Marcel Beaudoin & Moogli

*******************************************
'Actually, cats are quite good at
domesticating humans.'
*******************************************

"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message
news:I8MZa.121602$YN5.84474@sccrnsc01...
[...]
The conclusion is that dogs know instinctively, from birth, to a) look to
humans for assistance, and b) look into human FACES. Since wolves totally
lack this instinct, it's something which must be genetically coded into
the
domestic dog, and points to a symbiosis much deeper than we ever thought
it
was. So dog willingness to work with human and knowledge of human facial
expression as important for communication may actually be hard wired.

Much more likely that the knowledge about the meaning of facial expressions
is learned,and that this learning ability is part of their communication
ability. Puppies don't understand anything we say to them at first, but
they learn very quickly, cos they watch us intently. And they read body
language we are not really even aware of. Dogs also learn the meaning of
things such as pointing e.g. when you point somewhere they learn to look
where you are pointing or even go there depending upon your meaning. The
studies show that wolves do not have this ability. However, there is some
evidence that wolves have other skills, such as the ability to work out how
to open gate latches etc, which is not generally evidenced in dogs. This
of course leads to debate over whether dogs have increased communication
skills to the detriment of reasoning ability.

However, there is some
evidence that wolves have other skills, such as the ability to work out
how
to open gate latches etc, which is not generally evidenced in dogs.

Sez who?? Whoever they are, they need to meet my dogs- especially the
Jack Russell.

I wonder if they decoded the expression
as a threat in dog language, or if they
were just reacting to how odd it must
have looked on my face and how
different from the way I usually look at
them.
Probably both, Melanie. "Odd' is threatening. Their reactions were
much like ours -- we read a constellation of signals, and when some are
missing, we're uneasy. We've met people who exude charm, but 'something
just doesn't feel right.' They've overlooked a piece of the pattern.
The polygraph does something similar, measuring several factors instead
of relying on one.




















Just because humans are slow and can't smell or hear
very well doesn't mean they don't possess a primitive
type of intelligence.

I wonder if they decoded the expression
as a threat in dog language, or if they
were just reacting to how odd it must
have looked on my face and how
different from the way I usually look at
them.

Piggy backing on Chris's reply. I tore some muscles in my calf last week.
Walking is diffifcult. The dogs tended to avoid me for a couple of days, while
I'm limping around, giving me sidelong glances.

Tricia9999 said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I tore some muscles in my calf last week.
Walking is diffifcult. The dogs tended to avoid me for a
couple of days, while I'm limping around, giving me
sidelong glances.

Maybe there was some equivocation.

"Hmm, a chance to take down the weakest member of the pack."

"But who'll feed us next week?"

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Melanie L Chang" wrote ...
I've wondered idly how it is that my dogs seem to take a human smile for
exactly what it is. I am constantly smiling at them lovingly and showing
them my teeth. The only analogous canine cues I can come up with are the
warning rictus a dog might use as a "keep away" signal, and the submissive
grin that means "I'm no threat, I am scum, I am lower than low." Both
Solo and Fly seem to understand that when I smile I am saying neither of
these things.

My mother's poodle used to imitate a smile when she was happy to see us,
usually when we'd first come home after being out. She'd pull her lips up
off her teeth and really smile at us while she bounded around doing the
happy dance! It was particularly funny and cute because it made her sneeze
constantly!


Rachel
(New Zealand)

"Melanie L Chang" wrote ...
I've wondered idly how it is that my dogs seem to take a human smile for
exactly what it is. I am constantly smiling at them lovingly and showing
them my teeth. The only analogous canine cues I can come up with are the
warning rictus a dog might use as a "keep away" signal, and the submissive
grin that means "I'm no threat, I am scum, I am lower than low." Both
Solo and Fly seem to understand that when I smile I am saying neither of
these things.

My mother's poodle used to imitate a smile when she was happy to see us,
usually when we'd first come home after being out. She'd pull her lips up
off her teeth and really smile at us while she bounded around doing the
happy dance! It was particularly funny and cute because it made her sneeze
constantly!


Rachel
(New Zealand)