I have a question that I have wondered about for some time. I don’t
think there is one right answer, but it is a question that I am
currently struggling with.

My 13 month old, working blood lines (DDR) German shepherd is loaded
with drive. My observations of her suggest that her intensity, drive,
and energy exceed a half dozen or so schutzhund trained dogs (ages range
from one to six) that I have seen work at a nearby breeding/training
facility. Occasionally I train at this facility, mostly for obedience
and for the benefit of my dog being around other dogs in a controlled
atmosphere. (no bite work)

From time to time I have had instructors hint that my dog was a wee bit
out of control. Well, in my mind she isn’t, but she is not as calm as
the other dogs. She can do what the other dogs do on the obedience
training field, but she does it with a certain flair. When I put my
money down for a pup, I told the breeder (a different breeder) that I
wanted a spirited dog. I have always enjoyed dogs that I could play hard
with, dogs that had some get up and go.

Now I recognize the need for a dog to be trained, especially a large,
spirited dog with the potential to scare or hurt people; but, and here
is my question, should a dog be trained to the degree that it looses its
personality?

My shepherd is actually doing quite well with her obedience training. On
two different days I opened my garage door and she went out the door
before it was high enough for me to see what was on the other side. On
one occasion there was a cat walking by, and she did see it. On another
occasion there was a man walking a small dog. In both incidents my
shepherd simply stood there watching them very intently. She has great
prey drive and would have loved to chase, but she didn’t.

I have seen schutzhund and police service dogs trained, and what bothers
me about them is that the dogs, while they perform quite well, just seem
to be tools. I don’t see much personality. I understand that is the way
police service dogs might need to be, but a good many schutzhund dog
owners seem to genuinely care about their dogs, and I see the same thing
in their dogs.

Having said that, I am wondering if a dog should be trained to the
degree that the dog seems to loose its personality-- that inquisitive,
love of life, let’s go attitude that seems to make a dog a dog. I know
that all dogs are not the same and some of them are just calmer by
nature and/or train easier than others.

I just find that when I work with my shepherd on obedience, there is a
line that I occasionally cross, and when I do I see a distinct
difference in her personality, and that bothers me.

Which training method do I use? I knew you would ask. Well, I have used
many different ones, and every time the results seem to be the same.
There is progress to a point, and then when I cross the line that
demands more precision, I see that spark being extinguished. My training
has always involved short spurts of training time that are always
followed and preceded by lots of play. Some of the training is actually
play as in “the game� with Balabanov.

Maybe some dogs just are not suited for the demands of competition
obedience, but that is not what I am even looking for. I have no
interest in competition. I would just like the highest level of
obedience that is reasonably possible, but I do not want to loose that
love of life that my shepherd possesses.

Any thoughts? scott

I have absolutely no experience with GSDs or in-depth training so you might
want to take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think that what you
see on the training grounds is really the dogs' personalities trained away.
I think that they are "put away" while training or working and released when
relaxing. The same with people at work. Some of the funniest, liveliest
people I know are totally serious & disciplined in the work environment.
They know they are there to work so they put on their serious hats for lack
of a better description. I think the same applies to dogs. The dog is
likely allowed to be as goofy and free-spirited as it wants at home but when
working or training, the dog has learned that it needs to be serious &
focus. Hope that makes sense.

--
Tara

I have absolutely no experience with GSDs or in-depth training so you might
want to take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think that what you
see on the training grounds is really the dogs' personalities trained away.
I think that they are "put away" while training or working and released when
relaxing. The same with people at work. Some of the funniest, liveliest
people I know are totally serious & disciplined in the work environment.
They know they are there to work so they put on their serious hats for lack
of a better description. I think the same applies to dogs. The dog is
likely allowed to be as goofy and free-spirited as it wants at home but when
working or training, the dog has learned that it needs to be serious &
focus. Hope that makes sense.

--
Tara

I have absolutely no experience with GSDs or in-depth training so you might
want to take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think that what you
see on the training grounds is really the dogs' personalities trained away.
I think that they are "put away" while training or working and released when
relaxing. The same with people at work. Some of the funniest, liveliest
people I know are totally serious & disciplined in the work environment.
They know they are there to work so they put on their serious hats for lack
of a better description. I think the same applies to dogs. The dog is
likely allowed to be as goofy and free-spirited as it wants at home but when
working or training, the dog has learned that it needs to be serious &
focus. Hope that makes sense.

--
Tara

"Scott" wrote in message
...

I have a question that I have wondered about for some time. I don’t
think there is one right answer, but it is a question that I am
currently struggling with.

snip

I just find that when I work with my shepherd on obedience, there is a
line that I occasionally cross, and when I do I see a distinct
difference in her personality, and that bothers me.

Which training method do I use? I knew you would ask. Well, I have used
many different ones, and every time the results seem to be the same.
There is progress to a point, and then when I cross the line that
demands more precision, I see that spark being extinguished. My training
has always involved short spurts of training time that are always
followed and preceded by lots of play. Some of the training is actually
play as in “the game� with Balabanov.

Maybe some dogs just are not suited for the demands of competition
obedience, but that is not what I am even looking for. I have no
interest in competition. I would just like the highest level of
obedience that is reasonably possible, but I do not want to loose that
love of life that my shepherd possesses.

Any thoughts? scott

You can use a phrase such as "back to work" preceding any formal obedience
or at any time you want the dog to really "work". A phrase such as that is
used to tell the dog that this is serious time, no running about and goofing
off, once you have finished then "free" the dog allowing it to be at ease to
do as it pleases.

One of my dogs Roz is a GSD X, she has the same spark your dog has, Roz is 5
now, I had to keep her entertained to train her, I'd use a tug toy, play tug
then suddenly say "back to work" ask her to sit, drop tug toy, heel, sit,
down, stay, then I'd walk away from her, ask her to come, sit, heel, free
and let her grab the toy. But all those things had to be completed
precisely, she had to heel right by my side, when asking her to come had to
sit directly in front of me etc. If she wasn't precise enough I'd shuffle
away and ask her again. She loves to play tug but she learnt she had to be
precise if I was going to continue the game, quickly she heeled and sat in
front of me etc precisely because to her that was where she had to be.
Don't use any negativity, always be upbeat and authoritive (the dog has to
see you as a leader, I ask the dogs to do things with tone of complete
expectation), I never get impatient or tell them "no", if they get it wrong
I move away and ask for it again.

Paul

"Scott" wrote in message
...

I have a question that I have wondered about for some time. I don’t
think there is one right answer, but it is a question that I am
currently struggling with.

snip

I just find that when I work with my shepherd on obedience, there is a
line that I occasionally cross, and when I do I see a distinct
difference in her personality, and that bothers me.

Which training method do I use? I knew you would ask. Well, I have used
many different ones, and every time the results seem to be the same.
There is progress to a point, and then when I cross the line that
demands more precision, I see that spark being extinguished. My training
has always involved short spurts of training time that are always
followed and preceded by lots of play. Some of the training is actually
play as in “the game� with Balabanov.

Maybe some dogs just are not suited for the demands of competition
obedience, but that is not what I am even looking for. I have no
interest in competition. I would just like the highest level of
obedience that is reasonably possible, but I do not want to loose that
love of life that my shepherd possesses.

Any thoughts? scott

You can use a phrase such as "back to work" preceding any formal obedience
or at any time you want the dog to really "work". A phrase such as that is
used to tell the dog that this is serious time, no running about and goofing
off, once you have finished then "free" the dog allowing it to be at ease to
do as it pleases.

One of my dogs Roz is a GSD X, she has the same spark your dog has, Roz is 5
now, I had to keep her entertained to train her, I'd use a tug toy, play tug
then suddenly say "back to work" ask her to sit, drop tug toy, heel, sit,
down, stay, then I'd walk away from her, ask her to come, sit, heel, free
and let her grab the toy. But all those things had to be completed
precisely, she had to heel right by my side, when asking her to come had to
sit directly in front of me etc. If she wasn't precise enough I'd shuffle
away and ask her again. She loves to play tug but she learnt she had to be
precise if I was going to continue the game, quickly she heeled and sat in
front of me etc precisely because to her that was where she had to be.
Don't use any negativity, always be upbeat and authoritive (the dog has to
see you as a leader, I ask the dogs to do things with tone of complete
expectation), I never get impatient or tell them "no", if they get it wrong
I move away and ask for it again.

Paul

"Scott" wrote in message
...

I have a question that I have wondered about for some time. I don’t
think there is one right answer, but it is a question that I am
currently struggling with.

snip

I just find that when I work with my shepherd on obedience, there is a
line that I occasionally cross, and when I do I see a distinct
difference in her personality, and that bothers me.

Which training method do I use? I knew you would ask. Well, I have used
many different ones, and every time the results seem to be the same.
There is progress to a point, and then when I cross the line that
demands more precision, I see that spark being extinguished. My training
has always involved short spurts of training time that are always
followed and preceded by lots of play. Some of the training is actually
play as in “the game� with Balabanov.

Maybe some dogs just are not suited for the demands of competition
obedience, but that is not what I am even looking for. I have no
interest in competition. I would just like the highest level of
obedience that is reasonably possible, but I do not want to loose that
love of life that my shepherd possesses.

Any thoughts? scott

You can use a phrase such as "back to work" preceding any formal obedience
or at any time you want the dog to really "work". A phrase such as that is
used to tell the dog that this is serious time, no running about and goofing
off, once you have finished then "free" the dog allowing it to be at ease to
do as it pleases.

One of my dogs Roz is a GSD X, she has the same spark your dog has, Roz is 5
now, I had to keep her entertained to train her, I'd use a tug toy, play tug
then suddenly say "back to work" ask her to sit, drop tug toy, heel, sit,
down, stay, then I'd walk away from her, ask her to come, sit, heel, free
and let her grab the toy. But all those things had to be completed
precisely, she had to heel right by my side, when asking her to come had to
sit directly in front of me etc. If she wasn't precise enough I'd shuffle
away and ask her again. She loves to play tug but she learnt she had to be
precise if I was going to continue the game, quickly she heeled and sat in
front of me etc precisely because to her that was where she had to be.
Don't use any negativity, always be upbeat and authoritive (the dog has to
see you as a leader, I ask the dogs to do things with tone of complete
expectation), I never get impatient or tell them "no", if they get it wrong
I move away and ask for it again.

Paul

"Tee" wrote in message
...
I have absolutely no experience with GSDs or in-depth training so
you might
want to take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think that
what you
see on the training grounds is really the dogs' personalities
trained away.
I think that they are "put away" while training or working and
released when
relaxing. The same with people at work. Some of the funniest,
liveliest
people I know are totally serious & disciplined in the work
environment.
They know they are there to work so they put on their serious hats
for lack
of a better description. I think the same applies to dogs. The dog
is
likely allowed to be as goofy and free-spirited as it wants at home
but when
working or training, the dog has learned that it needs to be serious
&
focus. Hope that makes sense.

--
Tara


I second what Tara's says. Also, your dog is young and maybe she will
become calmer when she is older.
Alison

"Tee" wrote in message
...
I have absolutely no experience with GSDs or in-depth training so
you might
want to take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think that
what you
see on the training grounds is really the dogs' personalities
trained away.
I think that they are "put away" while training or working and
released when
relaxing. The same with people at work. Some of the funniest,
liveliest
people I know are totally serious & disciplined in the work
environment.
They know they are there to work so they put on their serious hats
for lack
of a better description. I think the same applies to dogs. The dog
is
likely allowed to be as goofy and free-spirited as it wants at home
but when
working or training, the dog has learned that it needs to be serious
&
focus. Hope that makes sense.

--
Tara


I second what Tara's says. Also, your dog is young and maybe she will
become calmer when she is older.
Alison

"Tee" wrote in message
...
I have absolutely no experience with GSDs or in-depth training so
you might
want to take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't think that
what you
see on the training grounds is really the dogs' personalities
trained away.
I think that they are "put away" while training or working and
released when
relaxing. The same with people at work. Some of the funniest,
liveliest
people I know are totally serious & disciplined in the work
environment.
They know they are there to work so they put on their serious hats
for lack
of a better description. I think the same applies to dogs. The dog
is
likely allowed to be as goofy and free-spirited as it wants at home
but when
working or training, the dog has learned that it needs to be serious
&
focus. Hope that makes sense.

--
Tara


I second what Tara's says. Also, your dog is young and maybe she will
become calmer when she is older.
Alison